madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) - Page 2495

mclingo · 28th March 2018, 01:24

ok, got that wrong, this old version of MADVR didnt have use DIRCT3D11 tick, it turns out this is actually whats causing the problem, eveything was ok until I ticked that, so there are now three ways to stop this problem,. 3 bits of evidence.

- Put my TV in PC mode - problems goes away
- turn off refresh rate switching and play movie at 60hz
- turn of use DIRECT3D11

I might be even more baffled now

Warner306 · 28th March 2018, 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxkolonko123

When i set HDMI label on LG and set full RGB 8bit then black i way over dark, but when i set it to YCbCr 422 10bit or YCbCr 444 8bit its fine ( and the colors looks like full RGB on PC label )

So do you mean i should leave on PC label and set to full RGB 8bit ?

cheers

The idea is the same...

On the HDMI label of your display, change the HDMI black level to full range. This might be set by default on the PC label. The black level could have a number of names depending on the display, so you may have to search for it in the menus.

Then, set it as follows:

(madVR) RGB Full -> (GPU) RGB Full -> (Display) RGB Full

This treats your display as a PC monitor as it is connected to a PC.

As for your choice of bit depth, read the discussion that starts here: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...67#post1836967

maxkolonko123 · 28th March 2018, 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warner306

The idea is the same...

On the HDMI label of your display, change the HDMI black level to full range. This might be set by default on the PC label. The black level could have a number of names depending on the display, so you may have to search for it in the menus.

Then, set it as follows:

(madVR) RGB Full -> (GPU) RGB Full -> (Display) RGB Full

This treats your display as a PC monitor as it is connected to a PC.

As for your choice of bit depth, read the discussion that starts here: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...67#post1836967

Ok cool now it make sense, cause tbh with you buddy im kinda noobish in all this

Madvr i have set to RGB full, black levels are set to low on hdmi port.

One more question for you, i use my lg mostly for hdr/4k movies i dont do much playing at all, so would i benefit more from full RGB 8bit rather then YCbCr 422 10bit?

Warner306 · 28th March 2018, 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxkolonko123

One more question for you, i use my lg mostly for hdr/4k movies i dont do much playing at all, so would i benefit more from full RGB 8bit rather then YCbCr 422 10bit?

You can set your desktop to 8-bit RGB at 60Hz. Then play a movie with a 24 fps frame rate and return to the GPU control panel. Set it to 10/12-bits. That way, you don't have to compromise. The desktop remains at RGB Full and video playback remains at RGB Full; and the video playback is at 10-bits, not 8-bits.

mclingo · 28th March 2018, 02:08

got a nice easy workaround in place for my color issues - ive setup two profiles, HDR and SDR, HDR has DIRECT3d on SDR has it off, seems to work a treat.

If (HDR) "HDR"

If (not HDR) "SDR"

maxkolonko123 · 28th March 2018, 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warner306

You can set your desktop to 8-bit RGB at 60Hz. Then play a movie with a 24 fps frame rate and return to the GPU control panel. Set it to 10/12-bits. That way, you don't have to compromise. The desktop remains at RGB Full and video playback remains at RGB Full; and the video playback is at 10-bits, not 8-bits.

I did try your way, by setting RGB full 8bit in desktop then play movie and try to change it to 10bit but, highest i can set over RGB is 8bit, only on YCbCr 422 i can set to 10-12bit.

Next thing what i notice is :

When set RGB full 8bit and left black level on tv to low ( which is when is way to dark) and opened madshi chrome pattern i can clearly see 422 but i cant see 444 only small shade of it. But when i change black level to high ( then is not over dark ) i cant see any number on pattern, either 422 or 444.

When i set YCbCr 422 i can see clearly both number 422 and 444 ( 422 is brightish and 444 is darkish font )

But when i set RGB full on PC label input on tv the 422 number is visible but kinda like fainting, but 444 is really clearly then so it's like opposite to what i can see over HDMI label input and PC label input.

So my question is what i should see or what should be more visible over another in what mode ? cause this is really confusing for me

Warner306 · 28th March 2018, 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxkolonko123

Highest i can set over RGB is 8bit, only on YCbCr 422 i can set to 10-12bit

Did you play a 24 fps video and return to the GPU control panel while it was playing? Start at 8-bits RGB. You set different values for lower refresh rates.

Warner306 · 28th March 2018, 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclingo

got a nice easy workaround in place for my color issues - ive setup two profiles, HDR and SDR, HDR has DIRECT3d on SDR has it off, seems to work a treat.

If (HDR) "HDR"

If (not HDR) "SDR"

Have you tried using the calibration settings posted by ratings.com for your display? This is good enough to consider your display calibrated.

maxkolonko123 · 28th March 2018, 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warner306

Did you play a 24 fps video and return to the GPU control panel while it was playing? Start at 8-bits RGB. You set different values for lower refresh rates.

Yeah i did, but other funny thing as well is that whenever i try to change refresh rate from 59hz in nvidia, to any other like 23hz 24hz etc, its automatically change back to 59hz

I do see P010, 10bit, 4:2:0 in madvr osd though

I tried it either with 4k movie in HDR and SDR 1080p movie

madvr osd on 1080p 24 fps movie is like that : h264, 8bit, 4:2:0 -> NV12, 8bit, 4:2:0

With HDR movie madvr doesnt have the second part after 4:2:0 like u see above in 1080p movie osd

Asmodian · 28th March 2018, 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxkolonko123

One more question for you, i use my lg mostly for hdr/4k movies i dont do much playing at all, so would i benefit more from full RGB 8bit rather then YCbCr 422 10bit?

Yes, madVR has very good chroma scaling and 10 bit is a very small improvement over 8 bit with high quality dithering.

YCbCr 4:2:2 loses 1/3 of the video data, both chroma channels are resized to half of their resolution horizontally by the GPU. This also requires converting the RGB output of madVR to YCbCr first and then the display converting back to RGB how ever it does.

brazen1 · 28th March 2018, 04:04

@Manni

Your recent post re: DCIP3 vs BT.2020 has confused me. I understand you are relaying what works for you on your JVC 12bit but I'm seeing a problem on my Samsung 10bit and not sure if what you say applies to me as well? According to your info, if I use BT.2020 for HDR10, it should be best because I'm inside the spectrum and not on the cusp of the smaller spectrum - DCIP3. Or does this not apply because I'm peaked at 10bit and still within the smaller spectrum?

My HDR titles look the same no matter if I use BT.2020, DCIP3, BT.709, or disable calibration controls. Forget that I'm dialed back to 8bit output because of the banding issue. I reset to 12bit to test. Shouldn't I be seeing a big difference in color when I toggle these using HDR 10bit titles? Fwiw, it is in HDR mode and it looks very good using any of those. Just no difference between any of them. I'm fairly certain this is because I'm passing HDR through and I'm sending metadata to the display but if memory serves me right, so are you? I couldn't find the post where you clarified that so excuse me if I'm making a wrong assumption.

If I select BT.2020, HDR looks fine but SDR looks under saturated. SDR 8 or 10bit only looks good if I select DCIP3 or BT.709. So, I could use BT.709 and satisfy SDR and HDR, but I think the spectrum is smaller using BT.709 even though in my case it shouldn't matter due to I can't see a difference playing HDR. So, I use DCIP3 and satisfy SDR and HDR this way. Would it be better to profile SDR with DCIP3 or BT.709 and create another profile for HDR and set it to BT.2020 or one the others?

I'm concerned that my HDR titles don't respond to any of those settings and I'm confused how best to satisfy SDR and HDR? I'm hoping you and/or others might chime in and advise me. If you guys were me, how would you select the relevant settings?
I setup custom modes today with the new driver at 8bit and not 12 because of the banding (until 10bit is released if they ever step up and actually do it) and forced to drop it down if that matters. But I did test in 12bit.

Asmodian · 28th March 2018, 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxkolonko123

madvr osd on 1080p 24 fps movie is like that : h264, 8bit, 4:2:0 -> NV12, 8bit, 4:2:0

With HDR movie madvr doesnt have the second part after 4:2:0 like u see above in 1080p movie osd

This is simply because madVR has a special case for H.264. For H.264 madVR reports both the source format and the format it received, in your example the source is h264 8bit 4:2:0 and madVR received NV12 surfaces of 8bit 4:2:0 video. For other codecs (4K is usually HEVC) madVR only reports the format madVR received from LAV Video.

Asmodian · 28th March 2018, 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manni

DCI-P3 is irrelevant for consumer content. Unless you only use MadVR, which can convert to any gamut you want, BT2020 is the correct option.

I believe you are only talking about your JVC's BT.2020 option? It is doing the conversion (tone mapping, etc.) and it knows the source gamut so why does it even have a setting? Shouldn't it simply map to its native gamut?

This is just about how it does HDR tone mapping when using its different options, it cannot be applied to any other TVs or projectors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manni

So selecting DCI-P3 in MadVR would only be correct if a DCI-P3 calibration was made in the JVC, which isn't an option unless you create and upload with the Autocal software a specific DCI-P3 colour profile. Out of the box, the correct choice is therefore BT2020 if you want a wide color gamut, and so BT2020 should also be specified in MadVR, otherwise the colors will be wrong inside the gamut.

Again, this is only on your display. I believe you for your projector but for most HDR displays, in their wide gamut mode, setting DCI-P3 in madVR is more correct for SDR content or if madVR is doing the tone mapping to SDR. With SDR setting BT.2020 will map BT.709 into BT.2020 and then the display will display it in its native gamut without doing another conversion.

For HDR content it is different, I don't have as much calibration experiance but my TV assumes the source content is BT.2020 when doing its tone mapping. Its HDR mode works better when the 3DLUT maps to HDR BT.2020 or "process HDR content by using pixel shader math" targets BT.2020.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brazen1

does this not apply because I'm peaked at 10bit and still within the smaller spectrum?

No, bit depth and color gamut are independent. Using too wide of a gamut with too low of a bit depth can cause banding but 12 bit does not allow you to display more intense colors, only to have more steps between colors.

In wider gamuts all brightness levels of pure red are simply more red. BT.709's pure red is a shade of orange in BT.2020. Actually displaying BT.2020 would take something like lasers of the precise wavelength so pure red does not stimulate the human green or blue color sensing cells at all, and the same for the green and blue light sources.

All that said, which options do you have on your display? Do you have BT.2020, DCI-P3 or BT.709 options? My TV only has "wide" (close to DCI-P3) and "enhanced" (closer to BT.709). I leave it on "wide" and would use DCI-P3 for SDR in madVR if I did not use 3DLUTs.

For HDR what options are you using in madVR? With "passthrough HDR content to the display" the setting in the calibration page does not apply, the metadata has that information and the display handles any conversions.

Warner306 · 28th March 2018, 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxkolonko123

Yeah i did, but other funny thing as well is that whenever i try to change refresh rate from 59hz in nvidia, to any other like 23hz 24hz etc, its automatically change back to 59hz

The fact that you can't switch to 23Hz in the control panel doesn't sound good. I'm assuming the movie switches to 23.976Hz when played? Did you set up madVR's display modes?

I would first update my GPU drivers if you haven't already. If this persists, then set everything to 8-bit RGB. You really won't be missing much as the difference between 8-bits and 10-bits is hard to notice during normal viewing. It is not one of the important settings in madVR.

As for the 4:4:4 thing, I'm guessing your PC input is 4:4:4 and your other inputs are 4:2:2. That image you are using is 1080p, to my knowledge, so that could skew the results. But that is the most likely scenario.

Warner306 · 28th March 2018, 06:07

Yes, as Asmodian said, HDR mode is not used with calibration settings in madVR. madVR sends the gamut, transfer function and metadata, so there is no conversion. The only exception is HDR -> SDR conversion. What you have to worry about is your SDR calibration. Also known as the standard mode on your display when nothing HDR is played.

The gamut could remain wide, but, with proper calibration, it should not exceed 100-120 nits of luminance.

maxkolonko123 · 28th March 2018, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warner306

The fact that you can't switch to 23Hz in the control panel doesn't sound good. I'm assuming the movie switches to 23.976Hz when played? Did you set up madVR's display modes?

I would first update my GPU drivers if you haven't already. If this persists, then set everything to 8-bit RGB. You really won't be missing much as the difference between 8-bits and 10-bits is hard to notice during normal viewing. It is not one of the important settings in madVR.

As for the 4:4:4 thing, I'm guessing your PC input is 4:4:4 and your other inputs are 4:2:2. That image you are using is 1080p, to my knowledge, so that could skew the results. But that is the most likely scenario.

Hey,

Yeah i did install newest nvidia drivers 391.24. My modes in madvr are like that 2160p60, 2160p59, 2160p50, 2160p29, 2160p30.

Here is the screenshot from 1080p movie https://imgur.com/a/R6COj
So i dont really know if it does switch to 23.976hz ?

Here is screenshot from from 2160p HDR movie https://imgur.com/a/UT4Bx

About the chroma pattern image, im using right now hdmi input YCbCr in nvidia panel and i can see both numbers clearly in full screen.

But when set to Full RGB and change black level on TV to high/auto then i cant see just the shade off 422 but 444 is not visible at all, both scenario in hdmi label input on TV.

I just notice that i can change refresh rate in nvidia panel but when no playing any movie, then refresh rate stay to what i choose, but once i play movie it automatically change to 59hz

jespermart · 28th March 2018, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

How to configure profile rules:

The madVR settings profiling logic is very flexible, but also requires a bit of scripting for best effect. Script language is pretty easy. Basically scripting is expected to be a string of "if", "else if" and "else" statements. Every "if" (or "else if") statement contains of one or more value comparisons and selects one profile to be activated. Each value comparison must be placed in brackets. By using the logical operations "and" or "or" you can check multiple values to create more complex decisions.

Let's look at an example. The following script selects one of 4 profiles, depending on the source dimensions and the frame rate after deinterlacing. I think the script is pretty much self explaining:

Code:

if      (srcWidth <= 1050) and (srcHeight <= 768) and (deintFps < 31) "SD 24fps"
else if (srcWidth <= 1050) and (srcHeight <= 768)                     "SD 60fps"
else if                                               (deintFps < 31) "HD 24fps"
else                                                                  "HD 60fps"

Supported keywords and operators:

Code:

if/else statements:     "if", "else if", "elseif", "elsif", "else"
logical operators:      "and", "or", "&&", "||"
equal check:            "==", "="
unequal check:          "!=", "<>", "#"
bigger/smaller check:   "<", ">", "<=", ">="
boolean "not" operator: "not", "!"

Supported numerical values:

Code:

srcWidth, srcHeight                              src width/height (cropping according to settings)
croppedSrcWidth, croppedSrcHeight                cropped   src width/height
uncroppedSrcWidth, uncroppedSrcHeight            uncropped src width/height
AR, uncroppedAR, encodedAR                       cropped AR (aspect ratio), uncropped AR, encoded AR, 
targetWidth, targetHeight                        width/height after scaling (cropping according to settings)
croppedTargetWidth, croppedTargetHeight          width/height after scaling cropped   source
uncroppedTargetWidth, uncroppedTargetHeight      width/height after scaling uncropped source
scalingFactor.x/y                                overall scaling factor
fps, deintFps, bitDepth                          source frame rate, framerate after deinterlacing, bitdepth
displayMode.x/y, refreshRate                     display mode information
runtime                                          movie runtime (in minutes)

Supported boolean values:

Code:

4:2:0, 4:2:2, 4:4:4, RGB     which pixel format does the source have?
HDR                          is the video HDR?
srcInterlaced                is the source interlaced?
filmMode                     is film mode (IVTC) active?
MPEG2, VC-1, h264            which codec is the source encoded in?
exclusive, overlay, windowed rendering mode
fullscreen                   is playback borderless fullscreen (can be windowed or exclusive)
AMD, nVidia, Intel           which GPU manufacturer are we rendering on?
smoothMotion                 is smooth motion FRC active?
variableAR                   does this video have variable ARs?
hdr                          is the video HDR?
battery                      is this a laptop running on battery?

Supported string values:

Code:

mediaPlayer                   media player exe file name
filePath, fileName, fileExt   e.g. "c:\movie.mkv", "movie.mkv", "mkv", wildcards supported
display                       name of the active display device

One more example to show how to use numerical, boolean and string values:

Code:

if ((not 4:2:0) or (AR = 16:9)) and (fileName = "*horribleSubs*.mkv") "Weird profile" else "Normal profile"

Does the scripting support unc path

mclingo · 28th March 2018, 12:46

unfortunately MADSHI doesnt feel my colour issue with DIRECT3D11@23hz is a MADVR problem even though it only occurs with MADVR, I dont agree there isnt much I can do, if anyone else has similar issues can they post.

recap:
Happens only with AMD RX generation cards ( think)
I only see if with SDR material running @ 23hz
happens only when "use DIRECT3D11" ticked in MADVR
Putting TV in PC mode corrects the problem.

i'm going to log this on AMD forums but there isnt really much for AMD to go really as it only happens with MADVR, doubt they will even bother to look at it. The reason others havent picked up on this yet is may that there still arent that many 4K HDR TV owners out there using MADVR with RX cards, at present only one other person has reported similar issues.

huhn · 28th March 2018, 13:02

ok let's see that this happen with MPDN with 3d11?

Quote:

Putting TV in PC mode corrects the problem.

this alone is resason enough that it is NOT a madVR problem.

edit: ahh yeah the AMD forum is not there to report GPU driver bugs it is there to get help from other >user< NOT from AMD.

mclingo · 28th March 2018, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by huhn

ok let's see that this happen with MPDN with 3d11?

this alone is resason enough that it is NOT a madVR problem.

edit: ahh yeah the AMD forum is not there to report GPU driver bugs it is there to get help from other >user< NOT from AMD.

its a difficult one this, the fact that other renderers can process colour correctly at the same resolution, refresh rate and TV mode suggest that MADVR is getting tripped up somewhere by something, not that there is a fault somewhere in a GPU driver, surely if that were the case they'd all get tripped up.

Obviously MADVR is doing things differently to other renderers but this is the reason why you call it a bug with MADVR and not with the AMD gpu driver, they wont wirte their drivers to work with MADVR, surely its up to MADSHI to write MADVR to work with their drivers. AMD's response if the was one would likely be what is MADVR doing that all other renderers are not?

I've got a workaround that works for now, not a fan of workarounds as a like a simple setup but MADSHI is busy and i'm already eternally grateful for all the work he's already done so it wouldnt be fair to put further pressure on him.

if this doesnt get fixed its not the end of the world but I'd still like it to be acknowledged as a bug with MADVR and not with the GPU driver.

However, if MADSHI does nothing at all with this but still continues to develop MADVR i'll be happy enough with that.

28th March 2018, 04:04	#49891 \| Link
brazen1 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 228	@Manni Your recent post re: DCIP3 vs BT.2020 has confused me. I understand you are relaying what works for you on your JVC 12bit but I'm seeing a problem on my Samsung 10bit and not sure if what you say applies to me as well? According to your info, if I use BT.2020 for HDR10, it should be best because I'm inside the spectrum and not on the cusp of the smaller spectrum - DCIP3. Or does this not apply because I'm peaked at 10bit and still within the smaller spectrum? My HDR titles look the same no matter if I use BT.2020, DCIP3, BT.709, or disable calibration controls. Forget that I'm dialed back to 8bit output because of the banding issue. I reset to 12bit to test. Shouldn't I be seeing a big difference in color when I toggle these using HDR 10bit titles? Fwiw, it is in HDR mode and it looks very good using any of those. Just no difference between any of them. I'm fairly certain this is because I'm passing HDR through and I'm sending metadata to the display but if memory serves me right, so are you? I couldn't find the post where you clarified that so excuse me if I'm making a wrong assumption. If I select BT.2020, HDR looks fine but SDR looks under saturated. SDR 8 or 10bit only looks good if I select DCIP3 or BT.709. So, I could use BT.709 and satisfy SDR and HDR, but I think the spectrum is smaller using BT.709 even though in my case it shouldn't matter due to I can't see a difference playing HDR. So, I use DCIP3 and satisfy SDR and HDR this way. Would it be better to profile SDR with DCIP3 or BT.709 and create another profile for HDR and set it to BT.2020 or one the others? I'm concerned that my HDR titles don't respond to any of those settings and I'm confused how best to satisfy SDR and HDR? I'm hoping you and/or others might chime in and advise me. If you guys were me, how would you select the relevant settings? I setup custom modes today with the new driver at 8bit and not 12 because of the banding (until 10bit is released if they ever step up and actually do it) and forced to drop it down if that matters. But I did test in 12bit. __________________ HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players W10 1909 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5 PotPlayer 65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D Last edited by brazen1; 28th March 2018 at 04:22.

28th March 2018, 06:07	#49895 \| Link
Warner306 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,127	Yes, as Asmodian said, HDR mode is not used with calibration settings in madVR. madVR sends the gamut, transfer function and metadata, so there is no conversion. The only exception is HDR -> SDR conversion. What you have to worry about is your SDR calibration. Also known as the standard mode on your display when nothing HDR is played. The gamut could remain wide, but, with proper calibration, it should not exceed 100-120 nits of luminance. __________________ HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players Last edited by Warner306; 28th March 2018 at 06:12.

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28th March 2018, 01:24	#49881 \| Link
mclingo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 920	ok, got that wrong, this old version of MADVR didnt have use DIRCT3D11 tick, it turns out this is actually whats causing the problem, eveything was ok until I ticked that, so there are now three ways to stop this problem,. 3 bits of evidence. - Put my TV in PC mode - problems goes away - turn off refresh rate switching and play movie at 60hz - turn of use DIRECT3D11 I might be even more baffled now

28th March 2018, 02:08	#49885 \| Link
mclingo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 920	got a nice easy workaround in place for my color issues - ive setup two profiles, HDR and SDR, HDR has DIRECT3d on SDR has it off, seems to work a treat. If (HDR) "HDR" If (not HDR) "SDR"

28th March 2018, 12:46	#49898 \| Link
mclingo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 920	unfortunately MADSHI doesnt feel my colour issue with DIRECT3D11@23hz is a MADVR problem even though it only occurs with MADVR, I dont agree there isnt much I can do, if anyone else has similar issues can they post. recap: Happens only with AMD RX generation cards ( think) I only see if with SDR material running @ 23hz happens only when "use DIRECT3D11" ticked in MADVR Putting TV in PC mode corrects the problem. i'm going to log this on AMD forums but there isnt really much for AMD to go really as it only happens with MADVR, doubt they will even bother to look at it. The reason others havent picked up on this yet is may that there still arent that many 4K HDR TV owners out there using MADVR with RX cards, at present only one other person has reported similar issues.