Stereo to 6.1 with Sony Sound Forge 9 (VST-SRS Circle) - Page 2

Elektra999 · 11th May 2007, 17:14

Je je je Dolby Surround EX in Sony Sound Forge 9 with VI.I

01. Menu / File / Open Wav.
02. Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla,.....
03. Menu / File Properties / Proyect 7.1
04. Add plug-in VI.I and Press Processing selection.

05. To select track 4 (channel LFE), Cut.
06. Copy track 7 (SC) and paste track 4, Menu / Edit / Paste.
07. Menu / File / Properties / Proyect 5.1

07. Configuration my Sound Card Creative X-FI (Creative ASIO) in Sony Sound Forge 9

FL
FR
CENTER
SC
SL
SR

08. Enable LFE

09. Enable Exfbitstream

Dolby Surround EX or Dolby Digital EX.

WOOOOWWWW Frank je je je

SealTooGreat · 11th May 2007, 19:13

This is wrong what you are doing!!!
You're erasing LFE and leaving surrond center(SC)?

SC is actually matrixed added into the two rear channels DURING DD EX encoding, NOT Discrete channel.
Put that (last) way created AC3 EX in MediaInfo or play it with PowerDVD(check show info). How much channels does they show? (it should be real 6 or 5.1). So V.I is enough for DD EX.

Elektra999 · 11th May 2007, 19:23

He is not incorrect,

because in my audio card, Creative ASIO - track 4 - SC

Elektra999 · 11th May 2007, 19:36

PowerDVD is crazy

My Marantz SR7500 and 6.1 Channels INFINITY
Dolby Surround EX or Dolby Digital EX

SealTooGreat · 11th May 2007, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elektra999

He is not incorrect,
because in my audio card, Creative ASIO - track 4 - SC

That means SC is discrete, but it shouldn't be.
AC3 EX channels are wrongly mapped:
1.FR
2.LR
3.center
4.SC
5.SL
6.SR
7.SC - matrix EX channel.
So you have two(2) SC channels.

Elektra999 · 11th May 2007, 19:57

Not, not, not, VI.I channels SL, SR, SC Matrix, not discrete.
Srs Circle Surround channels SL, SR, SC yes discrete, VI.I no.

Dolby Surround EX, chanels SL, SR, SC Matrix, VI.I works perfect.

SealTooGreat · 11th May 2007, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elektra999

VI.I channels SL, SR, SC Matrix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elektra999

Dolby Surround EX, chanels SL, SR, SC Matrix

DELET SC matrix from VI.I and let DD EX encoder create SC matrix, otherwise you're getting 2 SC.

DD EX 6.1 or 7.1 only exists during decoding. DD EX 6.1 or 7.1 have 5.1ch + EX/(SC or 2xBR*) matrix(encoded in SL and SR).

SC, for 6.1 speakers, is created during playback from EX matrix.
*BR-back rear(x2) (mono), for 7.1 speakers, are also created during playback from EX matrix.

Elektra999 · 11th May 2007, 20:13

Yes, but not with the VI.I quality of channel SC, you I can assure.

Elektra999 · 12th May 2007, 18:35

Hello
I'm sorry, SealTooGreat.
It was wrong. The order of channels in Sony Sound Forge 9 is bad. On what you were commenting it is nice:

Yes, Proyect 5.1 (Sony Forge 9), Process with V.I, AC3 Pro window Exbitstrean Enable Dolby Surround EX Encoded= Dolby Surround EX (6.1)

Sony Vegas 7, is different, allows me to add the channel SC and the order of channels, seems to be good.

I'm Sorry SealTooGreat and

Elektra999 · 12th May 2007, 19:49

ejemmmmm ehhh...

AC3 or 44.100?? Encoder or 20bits/44100 HDCD??

SealTooGreat · 17th May 2007, 19:08

It's better to use Sound Forge 9(SF9) with Sony Vegas 7(SV7), 'cause with SV7 you can apply 2ch limiter to each track, separately.
SF9 doesn't allow that, unless you have 6/8ch limiter (to apply to all 6ch at the same time).
It's useful to create Surround Project template in SV7, before importing V.I_wav_6ch from SF9, with 2ch limiters assigned to each empty audio track(there should be 6 audio tracks with regulated Surround Pan for each channel - move pan point to appropriate channel and 4th track is only LFE). In "File->Properties->Audio->Muster bus mode" 5.1 surround must be selected (otherwise only stereo encoding is possible) , and change other settings upon your project (CD or DVD). Save template (use name you like) - "File->Save As". So every time, before importing V.I_wav_6ch in SV7, just load/open template.

@Elektra999
I don't understand your last post.

Elektra999 · 17th May 2007, 19:36

It is possible to do

SealTooGreat · 17th May 2007, 20:09

Well, I knew that

. But it's tooo loooong. Can't process all 3 limiters at the same time.
And you have merge back those separate limiter_processed 2ch tracks into 6ch.

Still don't have a clue how to do stereo->5.1ch with Sony Vegas 7 and V.I plugin.
In fact I've managed to create 5.1 using stereo buses and 2-in-2-out plugins(fLfR, CLFE, sLsR) from V.I. suit, but can't encode to multichannel 'cause project is set to stereo. And 6-in-6-out doesn't work with surround bus, sound is distributed equally as no VST have been applied (Project bus mode is set to 5.1 surround).

SealTooGreat · 17th May 2007, 20:44

For me, Nuendo stereo_to_5.1ch guide is most versatile - you can chain V.I suit, 2ch limiters and dithering in one step.
Only Nuendo's AC3 encoder doesn't support EX flag, but you can export 6ch wav to SF9.

Elektra999 · 26th May 2007, 19:39

Hello

To mix of channel SC, in channels SL and SR.
DOLBY DIGITAL 6.1 IN SONY SOUND FORGE 9

- Menu / File / Properties / To write 7
- Processing with VI.I
- Select Track 7 (channel SC)
- Menu / Edit / Copy
- Select track 5 (channel SL)
- Menu / Edit / Paste Special / Mix, configuration:

- He chooses the configuration that more you like for your room 6.1. 0dB, -3dB, -6dB.

The same thing with the track 7 (channel SR)

Now if that is DOLBY DIGITAL 6.1

SealTooGreat · 27th May 2007, 04:34

OK... You've mixed SC into SL&SR created from VST VI.I. But this doesn't change the fact that DD EX encoder is the ONLY ONE how will write EX flag into SL&SR. Again, V.I is enough for DOLBY DIGITAL EX, don't bother with VI.I unless you have 6.1 discreet capable DD encoder or you are simple satisfied with WAV_7ch.

tebasuna51 · 27th May 2007, 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SealTooGreat

OK... You've mixed SC into SL&SR created from VST VI.I. But this doesn't change the fact that DD EX encoder is the ONLY ONE how will write EX flag into L&SR.

Also the free Aften encoder can write the flag with the parameters:
-xbsi2 1 -dsurexmod 2
(2 = Dolby Surround EX encoded)

Quote:

Again, V.I is enough for DOLBY DIGITAL EX, don't bother with VI.I unless you have 6.1 discreet capable DD encoder or you are simple satisfied with WAV_7ch.

For me is enough also V.I, but maybe can be used in special cases.

SealTooGreat · 27th May 2007, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by tebasuna51

Also the free Aften encoder can write the flag with the parameters:
-xbsi2 1 -dsurexmod 2
(2 = Dolby Surround EX encoded)

When I've said DD EX encoder is the ONLY ONE I've meant that EX surround(during playback) comes from EX matrix/flag, not from mixing SC into SL&SR. Mixing SC into SL&SR can only enhance or reduce quality of SL&SR, no more no less. For EX's stuff DD EX encoder(commercial or opensource ) is responsible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tebasuna51

For me is enough also V.I, but maybe can be used in special cases.

As far as I know, for DD EX you need wav_5.1ch, the EX rest is a flag.

tebasuna51 · 27th May 2007, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by SealTooGreat

When I've said DD EX encoder is the ONLY ONE I've meant that EX surround(during playback) comes from EX matrix/flag, not from mixing SC into SL&SR.

But, what do you thing is the EX matrix? Only the adequate mix of three channels (SL-SC-SR) in two phisical channels (SL'-SR'), at encoder time, to be supported by the 5.1 discrete channels of the standard ac3.
The same procedure than Dolby ProLogic (4/5 logical channels in two phisical channels).

If the adequate mix is obtained and the flag is set, a DD EX decoder can recover the 7 channels. Off course with less quality than a 6.1 discrete channels system, because the matrix mix method is not perfect.

SealTooGreat · 27th May 2007, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by tebasuna51

But, what do you thing is the EX matrix? Only the adequate mix of three channels (SL-SC-SR) in two phisical channels (SL'-SR'), at encoder time, to be supported by the 5.1 discrete channels of the standard ac3.

You didn't understand me. I was referring on unnecessary Elektra999's mixing SC into SL&SR before feeding it to encoder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tebasuna51

If the adequate mix is obtained and the flag is set, a DD EX decoder can recover the 7 channels. Off course with less quality than a 6.1 discrete channels system, because the matrix mix method is not perfect.

You mean to obtain adequate mix before encoding and than set the flag? Isn't it encoder job to set adequate mix and flag at encoder time?

11th May 2007, 17:14	#21 \| Link
Elektra999 DTS Pro Series Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Spain Posts: 179	Je je je Dolby Surround EX in Sony Sound Forge 9 with VI.I 01. Menu / File / Open Wav. 02. Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla,..... 03. Menu / File Properties / Proyect 7.1 04. Add plug-in VI.I and Press Processing selection. 05. To select track 4 (channel LFE), Cut. 06. Copy track 7 (SC) and paste track 4, Menu / Edit / Paste. 07. Menu / File / Properties / Proyect 5.1 07. Configuration my Sound Card Creative X-FI (Creative ASIO) in Sony Sound Forge 9 FL FR CENTER SC SL SR 08. Enable LFE 09. Enable Exfbitstream Dolby Surround EX or Dolby Digital EX. WOOOOWWWW Frank je je je __________________ *Addict to the audio multichannel* Last edited by Elektra999; 11th May 2007 at 19:46.

11th May 2007, 19:23	#23 \| Link
Elektra999 DTS Pro Series Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Spain Posts: 179	He is not incorrect, because in my audio card, Creative ASIO - track 4 - SC __________________ *Addict to the audio multichannel*

11th May 2007, 19:36	#24 \| Link
Elektra999 DTS Pro Series Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Spain Posts: 179	PowerDVD is crazy My Marantz SR7500 and 6.1 Channels INFINITY Dolby Surround EX or Dolby Digital EX __________________ *Addict to the audio multichannel* Last edited by Elektra999; 11th May 2007 at 19:46.

11th May 2007, 19:57	#26 \| Link
Elektra999 DTS Pro Series Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Spain Posts: 179	Not, not, not, VI.I channels SL, SR, SC Matrix, not discrete. Srs Circle Surround channels SL, SR, SC yes discrete, VI.I no. Dolby Surround EX, chanels SL, SR, SC Matrix, VI.I works perfect. __________________ *Addict to the audio multichannel*

11th May 2007, 20:13	#28 \| Link
Elektra999 DTS Pro Series Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Spain Posts: 179	Yes, but not with the VI.I quality of channel SC, you I can assure. __________________ *Addict to the audio multichannel*

11th May 2007, 19:13	#22 \| Link
SealTooGreat Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 302	This is wrong what you are doing!!! You're erasing LFE and leaving surrond center(SC)? SC is actually matrixed added into the two rear channels DURING DD EX encoding, NOT Discrete channel. Put that (last) way created AC3 EX in MediaInfo or play it with PowerDVD(check show info). How much channels does they show? (it should be real 6 or 5.1). So V.I is enough for DD EX.

12th May 2007, 18:35	#29 \| Link
Elektra999 DTS Pro Series Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Spain Posts: 179	Hello I'm sorry, SealTooGreat. It was wrong. The order of channels in Sony Sound Forge 9 is bad. On what you were commenting it is nice: Yes, Proyect 5.1 (Sony Forge 9), Process with V.I, AC3 Pro window Exbitstrean Enable Dolby Surround EX Encoded= Dolby Surround EX (6.1) Sony Vegas 7, is different, allows me to add the channel SC and the order of channels, seems to be good. I'm Sorry SealTooGreat and __________________ *Addict to the audio multichannel*

12th May 2007, 19:49	#30 \| Link
Elektra999 DTS Pro Series Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Spain Posts: 179	ejemmmmm ehhh... AC3 or 44.100?? Encoder or 20bits/44100 HDCD?? __________________ *Addict to the audio multichannel*

17th May 2007, 19:08	#31 \| Link
SealTooGreat Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 302	It's better to use Sound Forge 9(SF9) with Sony Vegas 7(SV7), 'cause with SV7 you can apply 2ch limiter to each track, separately. SF9 doesn't allow that, unless you have 6/8ch limiter (to apply to all 6ch at the same time). It's useful to create Surround Project template in SV7, before importing V.I_wav_6ch from SF9, with 2ch limiters assigned to each empty audio track(there should be 6 audio tracks with regulated Surround Pan for each channel - move pan point to appropriate channel and 4th track is only LFE). In "File->Properties->Audio->Muster bus mode" 5.1 surround must be selected (otherwise only stereo encoding is possible) , and change other settings upon your project (CD or DVD). Save template (use name you like) - "File->Save As". So every time, before importing V.I_wav_6ch in SV7, just load/open template. @Elektra999 I don't understand your last post. Last edited by SealTooGreat; 17th May 2007 at 20:31.

17th May 2007, 19:36	#32 \| Link
Elektra999 DTS Pro Series Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Spain Posts: 179	It is possible to do __________________ *Addict to the audio multichannel*

17th May 2007, 20:09	#33 \| Link
SealTooGreat Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 302	Well, I knew that . But it's tooo loooong. Can't process all 3 limiters at the same time. And you have merge back those separate limiter_processed 2ch tracks into 6ch. Still don't have a clue how to do stereo->5.1ch with Sony Vegas 7 and V.I plugin. In fact I've managed to create 5.1 using stereo buses and 2-in-2-out plugins(fLfR, CLFE, sLsR) from V.I. suit, but can't encode to multichannel 'cause project is set to stereo. And 6-in-6-out doesn't work with surround bus, sound is distributed equally as no VST have been applied (Project bus mode is set to 5.1 surround). Last edited by SealTooGreat; 17th May 2007 at 20:44.

17th May 2007, 20:44	#34 \| Link
SealTooGreat Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 302	For me, Nuendo stereo_to_5.1ch guide is most versatile - you can chain V.I suit, 2ch limiters and dithering in one step. Only Nuendo's AC3 encoder doesn't support EX flag, but you can export 6ch wav to SF9.

26th May 2007, 19:39	#35 \| Link
Elektra999 DTS Pro Series Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Spain Posts: 179	Hello To mix of channel SC, in channels SL and SR. DOLBY DIGITAL 6.1 IN SONY SOUND FORGE 9 - Menu / File / Properties / To write 7 - Processing with VI.I - Select Track 7 (channel SC) - Menu / Edit / Copy - Select track 5 (channel SL) - Menu / Edit / Paste Special / Mix, configuration: - He chooses the configuration that more you like for your room 6.1. 0dB, -3dB, -6dB. The same thing with the track 7 (channel SR) Now if that is DOLBY DIGITAL 6.1 __________________ *Addict to the audio multichannel*

27th May 2007, 04:34	#36 \| Link
SealTooGreat Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 302	OK... You've mixed SC into SL&SR created from VST VI.I. But this doesn't change the fact that DD EX encoder is the ONLY ONE how will write EX flag into SL&SR. Again, V.I is enough for DOLBY DIGITAL EX, don't bother with VI.I unless you have 6.1 discreet capable DD encoder or you are simple satisfied with WAV_7ch. Last edited by SealTooGreat; 27th May 2007 at 04:37.