x264 development - Page 85

shon3i · 1st March 2006, 21:18

This software comlete all my jobs whitout any bug. This going nowhere. I want say anything about that.

Sharktooth · 1st March 2006, 21:21

well, AVC in AVI thru VFW is buggy.
using AVC with VFW is buggy.
using Virtual Dub with AVC is buggy...
since we're talking about x264, and x264 IS AVC... virtual dub and x264 = buggy.
it's not so difficult to understand...

shon3i · 1st March 2006, 21:25

Relax man i won't mad you i understand you man. But this can fix like says Tommy Carrot

Sharktooth · 1st March 2006, 21:28

it cant be fixed. there is nothing to fix.
it's just VFW that lacks support for a series of features.
they cant be added without breaking everything.
thats why MS created DirectShow.

bond · 1st March 2006, 21:30

guys, plz calm down, especially newbies who definitely dont know the technical details

shon3i · 1st March 2006, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by bond

guys, plz calm down, especially newbies who definitely dont know the technical details

@bond I am not a newbie and i know the technical details
Maybe I am newbie on this forum.

bond · 1st March 2006, 21:35

how did you know that i mean you?

Sharktooth · 1st March 2006, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by shon3i

i know the technical details

it doesnt seem so

shon3i · 1st March 2006, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by bond

how did you know that i mean you?

Just Easy

nexus · 1st March 2006, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by LigH

@ nexus:

The MeGUI thread is here.

Damn, wrong thread.

Kurtnoise · 1st March 2006, 23:31

First of all, I understand Tommy Carrot point of view...

Second, I'd say let people choose by themself. I think there are already some good explanations here and there to choose by himself which is good or which is bad for our own needs. In addition, most often problems caused by these tricks can be the break point to change our point of view or at least to change the methods used to create/edit video streams. And don't forget that vfw codecs are also used for captures and all existing methods are not perfect...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharktooth

But no virtual dub for DirectShow

not true...what about ffdshow. Some dshow filters work with vdub.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharktooth

nor for GStreamer...

There are some vdub-like in *nix world which use GStreamer.

Sharktooth · 1st March 2006, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtnoise13

not true...what about ffdshow. Some dshow filters work with vdub.

the problem is that it will still make use of vdub... and so vfw...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtnoise13

There are some vdub-like in *nix world which use GStreamer.

but not in windows

LoRd_MuldeR · 2nd March 2006, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtnoise13

First of all, I understand Tommy Carrot point of view...

Second, I'd say let people choose by themself. I think there are already some good explanations here and there to choose by himself which is good or which is bad for our own needs. In addition, most often problems caused by these tricks can be the break point to change our point of view or at least to change the methods used to create/edit video streams. And don't forget that vfw codecs are also used for captures and all existing methods are not perfect...

Kostarum Rex Persia · 2nd March 2006, 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy Carrot

Bond, i think every argument i said is true. I don't say people should use vfw, and i'm perfectly aware of the limitations of it, but sometimes the "anti-vfw league" is saying ridiculous things here, and i feel i have to address the issue. Spreading misinformations, even with good intentions, just to convince people is not ok IMO.

Sharktooth: the mentioned problems are all related to the b-frames, p-frames have no problem with multiple references.

Anyway, i don't wish to continue this debate, let's just say that theoretically i agree with you, i just think you are too quick to bury vfw before any proper alternative could emerge. I'm following closely the developments of the mkv and mp4 manipulator applications, but they are nowhere close to being usable for more complex editing jobs. I think until then the vfw version is still necessary.

I absolutely agree with you, Tommy Carot. And, please, don't kill VFW at least until June 2007, OK. Compatibility is VERY VERY IMPORTANT.

And what about VirtualDub, can VirtualDubMod be modified to support your ideas(I mean on "anti-vfw" community)?

Kostarum Rex Persia · 2nd March 2006, 01:30

And, for the record, Shon3i is very very good in encoding jobs. He knows everything about video encoding for 7 years.

ChronoCross · 2nd March 2006, 02:02

which explains why he is living in the past. VFW needs to be killed off and new technologies be embraced. Why waste the developers times on vfw when the cli could just implement all the features without worry of having to conform to something that was old and outdated even when xvid first came around. The reason we still have xvid vfw is because of the simple fact of no one wanting to leave vfw. are we seriously gonna keep using vfw 25 years from now just because n00b's think it's easy? Come on seriously.

Let it die.

Kostarum Rex Persia · 2nd March 2006, 02:48

No, not 25 years, but only 2 or 3 more years. Until MP4 tools get ready for market.

And what about direct recording in Xvid or x264 from TV recording programs? That's why VFW needs to exist, until recording programs(and the market) accept MP4 container, properly.

bob0r · 2nd March 2006, 02:54

x264.nl > configure --disable-vfw

?

ChronoCross · 2nd March 2006, 03:00

There is no reason to use x264 for recording captures. we have huffy and xvid/divx for that. They are already vfw.

The question at hand is should we continue to support vfw for upcoming codecs. The answer is no. We already have codecs that do the jobs that vfw were meant to. If we continue to develop x264's vfw then the full switchover to cli will NEVER happen. WHy change when you can get by with the current. If we dump the vfw in x264 we can continue to use the older codecs for direct capturing.

Else we will still be having this conversation when the next level codec comes out in 3-5 years. Are we gonna still beg for vfw when no tools for .mp5 are here?

Adub · 2nd March 2006, 03:05

I am currious about this whole argument.
When people say "no vfw" I wonder what could we use as a replacement? I heard some one mention GStreamer, so I looked it up. It looks really promising, for my very limited knowledge of it.

Are there any others? Some maybe be developed by the brilliant people who populate this maginficent forum? What else would work, because I like my Virtualdub, yet I am starting to really like MeGUI as well.
Thoughts/Suggestions?

1st March 2006, 21:21	#1682 \| Link
Sharktooth Mr. Sandman Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Haddonfield, IL Posts: 11,768	well, AVC in AVI thru VFW is buggy. using AVC with VFW is buggy. using Virtual Dub with AVC is buggy... since we're talking about x264, and x264 IS AVC... virtual dub and x264 = buggy. it's not so difficult to understand... __________________ MPEG-4 ASP Custom Matrices: EQM V1(old), EQM AutoGK Sharpmatrix (aka EQM V2), EQM V3HR (updated 01/10/2004), EQM V3LR, EQM V3ULR (updated 04/02/2005), EQM V3UHR (updated 17/12/2004) and EQM V3EHR (updated 05/10/2004) Info about my ASP matrices. MPEG-4 AVC Custom Matrices: EQM AVC-HR Info about my AVC matrices My x264 builds. Mooo!!!

1st March 2006, 21:28	#1684 \| Link
Sharktooth Mr. Sandman Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Haddonfield, IL Posts: 11,768	it cant be fixed. there is nothing to fix. it's just VFW that lacks support for a series of features. they cant be added without breaking everything. thats why MS created DirectShow. __________________ MPEG-4 ASP Custom Matrices: EQM V1(old), EQM AutoGK Sharpmatrix (aka EQM V2), EQM V3HR (updated 01/10/2004), EQM V3LR, EQM V3ULR (updated 04/02/2005), EQM V3UHR (updated 17/12/2004) and EQM V3EHR (updated 05/10/2004) Info about my ASP matrices. MPEG-4 AVC Custom Matrices: EQM AVC-HR Info about my AVC matrices My x264 builds. Mooo!!!

1st March 2006, 21:30	#1685 \| Link
bond Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 9,770	guys, plz calm down, especially newbies who definitely dont know the technical details __________________ Between the weak and the strong one it is the freedom which oppresses and the law that liberates (Jean Jacques Rousseau) I know, that I know nothing (Socrates) MPEG-4 ASP FAQ \| AVC/H.264 FAQ \| AAC FAQ \| MP4 FAQ \| MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide) Ogg Theora \| Ogg Vorbis use WM9 today and get Micro$oft controlling the A/V market tomorrow for free

1st March 2006, 21:35	#1687 \| Link
bond Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 9,770	how did you know that i mean you? __________________ Between the weak and the strong one it is the freedom which oppresses and the law that liberates (Jean Jacques Rousseau) I know, that I know nothing (Socrates) MPEG-4 ASP FAQ \| AVC/H.264 FAQ \| AAC FAQ \| MP4 FAQ \| MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide) Ogg Theora \| Ogg Vorbis use WM9 today and get Micro$oft controlling the A/V market tomorrow for free

1st March 2006, 21:18	#1681 \| Link
shon3i BluRay Maniac Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,419	This software comlete all my jobs whitout any bug. This going nowhere. I want say anything about that.

1st March 2006, 21:25	#1683 \| Link
shon3i BluRay Maniac Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,419	Relax man i won't mad you i understand you man. But this can fix like says Tommy Carrot

2nd March 2006, 01:30	#1695 \| Link
Kostarum Rex Persia Banned Join Date: May 2005 Location: Serbia Posts: 560	And, for the record, Shon3i is very very good in encoding jobs. He knows everything about video encoding for 7 years.

2nd March 2006, 02:02	#1696 \| Link
ChronoCross Does it really matter? Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,542	which explains why he is living in the past. VFW needs to be killed off and new technologies be embraced. Why waste the developers times on vfw when the cli could just implement all the features without worry of having to conform to something that was old and outdated even when xvid first came around. The reason we still have xvid vfw is because of the simple fact of no one wanting to leave vfw. are we seriously gonna keep using vfw 25 years from now just because n00b's think it's easy? Come on seriously. Let it die.

2nd March 2006, 02:48	#1697 \| Link
Kostarum Rex Persia Banned Join Date: May 2005 Location: Serbia Posts: 560	No, not 25 years, but only 2 or 3 more years. Until MP4 tools get ready for market. And what about direct recording in Xvid or x264 from TV recording programs? That's why VFW needs to exist, until recording programs(and the market) accept MP4 container, properly.

2nd March 2006, 02:54	#1698 \| Link
bob0r Pain and suffering Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,337	x264.nl > configure --disable-vfw ?

2nd March 2006, 03:00	#1699 \| Link
ChronoCross Does it really matter? Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,542	There is no reason to use x264 for recording captures. we have huffy and xvid/divx for that. They are already vfw. The question at hand is should we continue to support vfw for upcoming codecs. The answer is no. We already have codecs that do the jobs that vfw were meant to. If we continue to develop x264's vfw then the full switchover to cli will NEVER happen. WHy change when you can get by with the current. If we dump the vfw in x264 we can continue to use the older codecs for direct capturing. Else we will still be having this conversation when the next level codec comes out in 3-5 years. Are we gonna still beg for vfw when no tools for .mp5 are here?

2nd March 2006, 03:05	#1700 \| Link
Adub Fighting spam with a fish Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2,699	I am currious about this whole argument. When people say "no vfw" I wonder what could we use as a replacement? I heard some one mention GStreamer, so I looked it up. It looks really promising, for my very limited knowledge of it. Are there any others? Some maybe be developed by the brilliant people who populate this maginficent forum? What else would work, because I like my Virtualdub, yet I am starting to really like MeGUI as well. Thoughts/Suggestions?