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Old 23rd October 2012, 17:15   #15021  |  Link
NicolasRobidoux
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Now, if I only can figure the best way to deal with Y'CbCr.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 17:26   #15022  |  Link
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Put another way: sRGB thins out light features more than Lab, which thins them out more than sigmoidized light: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/fil...pling_examples. Linear RGB makes light features "fat" when using a filter with a significant negative lobe.
The "offending party" in the housetop test image is light halo. So, "thinning out light features" leads to a better result.

Last edited by NicolasRobidoux; 23rd October 2012 at 17:30.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 18:05   #15023  |  Link
NicolasRobidoux
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Mathias:
You knew that Sandy Bridge has a built-in algorithm which can roughly be described as an AntiRing system? http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...81#post1551981

Last edited by NicolasRobidoux; 23rd October 2012 at 18:17.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 18:55   #15024  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nautilus7 View Post
Hi, since it's the first time I post in madVR thread, I would like to state how worderful this software is and what a great and methodical job madshi has done in developing it! Thanks a lot!

Now, I am trying to calibrate a friend's lcd tv using some test patterns. While playing arround, I decided to create some paterns of my own using photoshop. So, the question is, which color profile should I choose for the images in Photoshop? Forgive my ignorance in such matters, but apart my pc monitor, I haven't calibrate any other digital display. The available ones are below:

http://imgbox.com/abtqeulg

Should I choose sRGB, Rec.709 or something else? The calibration will be performed using a laptop (win7 and ati card, if that's important) connected via hdmi. I am keen on testing madVR's image displaying when support (through lav filters) is ready, as well.
I would recommend creating the patterns in sRGB but not saving a color profile with them if you are going to create JPG test patterns.

For calibration though, you might want to use the AVS HD MP4 package: http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs...p4-calibration
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Old 23rd October 2012, 19:10   #15025  |  Link
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Ok, thanks. I 'll check the link and come back with questions.

Last edited by nautilus7; 23rd October 2012 at 20:06.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 20:20   #15026  |  Link
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[...]
Ugh... So, when will OLED-s be available?
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Old 23rd October 2012, 21:39   #15027  |  Link
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Ugh... So, when will OLED-s be available?
Supposedly there will be sets from Samsung and LG by the end of the year, but I am skeptical, as they have shown very little, and they keep getting pushed back.

I don't think OLED panels are going to be as perfect as everyone is expecting either.

Motion handling will be great. (excellent if they implement interpolation and black frame insertion)

Viewing angles will be good and potentially great, depending on the panel design. At best, they will match Plasma. (which is already excellent)

At the very least, I would expect them to have similar power/brightness-limiting functions to Plasma TVs, and potentially crosstalk. (I have seen it on other OLED displays, but nothing that size)

Color gamut is going to be super-saturated out of the box, and I wonder if they will actually implement an adequate CMS for accurate BT.709 color reproduction.

Image retention/burn-in is of course a concern with these displays.

Neither the Samsung nor LG displays that have been announced have standard RGB stripe pixel structures, so they aren't suited to being used as a monitor. (fine for video and probably games)

Both sets are 1080p, and for what they cost, I would want a 4K panel. Neither are using that "zero reflection" glass that has been demoed by a few companies earlier this year. (including Sharp who have actually shown it on a working display)

They will hopefully have industry-leading contrast performance, though OLED does not guarantee it. Sony's OLED headset only has 10,000:1 contrast for example (5,000:1 when calibrated to reference levels) which is no better than a high end plasma.


I think it will be at least 2015 before OLEDs are actually starting to become affordable, and they work out the bugs that are inevitable from a first generation product.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 22:15   #15028  |  Link
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Now that LAV will do DVDs, I'm wondering whether the quality is the same? None (weave) in lav video (pass on to gpu) vs DXVA2 in madvr, or should they be identical?

Last edited by JarrettH; 24th October 2012 at 05:25.
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Old 24th October 2012, 10:14   #15029  |  Link
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Supposedly there will be sets from Samsung and LG by the end of the year, but I am skeptical, as they have shown very little, and they keep getting pushed back.

I don't think OLED panels are going to be as perfect as everyone is expecting either.

Motion handling will be great. (excellent if they implement interpolation and black frame insertion)
Why the hell would you need BFI? They don't have shitty response times like LCD?

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Neither the Samsung nor LG displays that have been announced have standard RGB stripe pixel structures, so they aren't suited to being used as a monitor. (fine for video and probably games)
What do you mean by this?
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Old 24th October 2012, 10:55   #15030  |  Link
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Why the hell would you need BFI? They don't have shitty response times like LCD?
Human eyes' persistence of vision...

It does not mean this visual effect is eliminated on hold-type display devices with < 1ms response time...

This is also why impulse-type display devices (Ex: CRT/PDP) often produce higher motion object's resolution...
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Old 24th October 2012, 12:28   #15031  |  Link
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So anyone's got an advice on a good nvidia board for 720p to 1080p Jinc3 AR chroma+luma upscale please? How about a $150 1GB GTX650Ti? I've got no idea how much crunching power this monster of an algorithm might require for 720p to 1080p....really the +1K SP's of the 660
Hi leeperry,

I had gpu-z running in the background while watching a 720p BR rip movie upscaled on my 1080p display. Latest LAV with CUVID. This with Jinc4 AR for chroma and Lanczos4 AR for image.

Here are the max stats:
Temperature: 54 C
Memory used: 473 MB
GPU load: 47%
Memory controller load: 17%
Video engine load: 12%

Thought you might find it useful.
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Last edited by Xaurus; 24th October 2012 at 12:30.
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Old 24th October 2012, 12:41   #15032  |  Link
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what would be better for luma upscaling: Lancos 3 AR or Jinc 3 noAR?
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Old 24th October 2012, 12:52   #15033  |  Link
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what would be better for luma upscaling: Lancos 3 AR or Jinc 3 noAR?
There really is no "better" but I think most pros here would choose to go with Lanczos3AR over Jinc3 but it really depends on how nitpicky you want to be about ringing. Take a screenshot of each and compare for yourself.
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Old 24th October 2012, 13:24   #15034  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by Xaurus View Post
I had gpu-z running in the background while watching a 720p BR rip movie upscaled on my 1080p display. Latest LAV with CUVID. This with Jinc4 AR for chroma and Lanczos4 AR for image.

Here are the max stats:
Temperature: 54 C
Memory used: 473 MB
GPU load: 47%
Memory controller load: 17%
Video engine load: 12%
Sweet, thanks! How about Jinc3 AR for both luma and chroma please? I'll be ordering the 650Ti tomorrow I think. I'll just install my VF1000 onto an overclocked board.

And the board is in its highest clocks settings? Kazuya tells me that Jinc4 AR chroma+luma only does spikes to 29% on his HD4850.

Last edited by leeperry; 24th October 2012 at 15:00.
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Old 24th October 2012, 16:04   #15035  |  Link
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Sweet, thanks! How about Jinc3 AR for both luma and chroma please? I'll be ordering the 650Ti tomorrow I think. I'll just install my VF1000 onto an overclocked board.

And the board is in its highest clocks settings? Kazuya tells me that Jinc4 AR chroma+luma only does spikes to 29% on his HD4850.
I would love to test it for you but a few minutes after my testing the SSD with Windows on it in my HTPC died. Yeah, died. I didn't even think they could do that.

So basically it will be a few days until I get a new one.

I find it really strange if he claims Jinc4 AR chroma+luma max is 29% with a HD 4850 for 720p -> 1080p...
http://www.hwcompare.com/13397/gefor...n-hd-4850-1gb/

edit: Actually I never checked which performance state the GPU was in. Should have fired up gpu-z after a minute or so I guess. So you can discard my numbers for now.
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Old 24th October 2012, 16:40   #15036  |  Link
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While we are talking about TV's, just wanted to say that I absolutely adore my Panasonic P50-UT50.

For ~800 dollars I don't think any LCD (or other Plasma, for that matter) comes close.

I run a black background on the TV and I can barely tell that it's on when the room is completely dark. The bezel is the same color as the bars when watching widescreen films. Handles motion perfectly; unlike large LCDs in remotely similar price range. Drawbacks; of course; burn-in, IR, reflective as hell --> don't watch it in a bright room and don't leave anything on the screen.

Anyway, just wanted to throw in my recommendation for 2012 Panny's; especially the UT50 and its more expensive cousins. Looks gorgeous with MadVR.
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Old 24th October 2012, 19:13   #15037  |  Link
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Behold, the best TV as of yet: http://elitelcdtv.com/elite-lcd-hdtv-overview/

Of course I love my Panasonic TC-P65V10 but the next TV I'm going to buy will probably be an OLED when they're bigger and in the right price range.
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Old 24th October 2012, 19:54   #15038  |  Link
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Ok so apparently the last couple of madVR versions don't acknowledge the ICC profile set by Windows...it used to consider it in previous versions of madVR though. I think it has to do with madVR's new behavior where it resets Direct3D or something like that because the screen flickers when I resize videos into fullscreen exclusive mode and before the last couple of versions madVR didn't do that.
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Old 24th October 2012, 21:10   #15039  |  Link
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Originally Posted by pie1394 View Post
Human eyes' persistence of vision...

It does not mean this visual effect is eliminated on hold-type display devices with < 1ms response time...

This is also why impulse-type display devices (Ex: CRT/PDP) often produce higher motion object's resolution...
Yeah, so? The point is for the motion to be fluid not flickery.
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Old 24th October 2012, 22:38   #15040  |  Link
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Why the hell would you need BFI? They don't have shitty response times like LCD?
The majority of motion blur seen on LCDs is now caused by the human vision system due to LCDs being sample-and-hold type displays rather than being impulse-driven like CRTs were. (and Plasmas somewhat are)

This is why modern LCDs with scanning backlights can have essentially zero motion blur.

OLED is similar to LCD in that it is a sample-and-hold display technology if it's not using black frame insertion.


Interpolation will still be necessary because 24p is not nearly a high enough framerate to perceive fluid motion. (native 24p judders a lot on panning)

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Yeah, so? The point is for the motion to be fluid not flickery.
Both CRTs and Plasma flicker. (in many cases, a Plasma can actually flicker more than CRT)

LED backlight scanning operating at 240Hz+ should have no, or almost no perceptible flicker relative to either of these technologies.

There's no reason OLED couldn't be more like LCDs with LED backlight scanning, rather than being more like CRT/Plasma.

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What do you mean by this?
LG are using RGBW subpixels, and Samsung appear to be using a vertical subpixel arrangement. Neither of these are suited to use as a monitor, which expects horizontally arranged RGB stripes.



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Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Behold, the best TV as of yet: http://elitelcdtv.com/elite-lcd-hdtv-overview/
The Elites have serious color decoding issues due to the Sharp Quattron panel that uses RGBY subpixels, and it does not turn local-dimming zones off, so the set still glows in a dark room. (but does still exceed contrast of most other displays)

You need to use an external CMS with one of these for good color reproduction, and even then I don't know that it's worth it.

Sharp make good LCD panels, but bad TVs. (though I would avoid anything using a Quattron UV2A panel rather than an RGB UV2A panel)
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