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Old 26th February 2018, 17:24   #49261  |  Link
njfoses
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Originally Posted by pirlouy View Post
I really enjoy the motion interpolation from my Samsung TV. They manage to add better motion without giving soap opera effect (ok there is some judder -not even artifacts- sometimes). I prefer to use 4:2:2 + 24Hz + motion interpolation instead of 4:4:4 + 60Hz + madVR's smooth motion.
On my Sony 940E i greatly prefer to have control over motion interpolation so i have to sacrifice 4:4:4 as well. Being that none of the video content i watch is encoded in 4:4:4 this is a tradeoff worth taking imho.
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Old 26th February 2018, 17:25   #49262  |  Link
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Looks like a new Nvidia driver has been released.
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Old 26th February 2018, 20:44   #49263  |  Link
Manni
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Looks like a new Nvidia driver has been released.
I gave it a quick try and not to restart the discussion but this driver is still incompatible with Asio4all after a clean install. Neither jRiver nor REW can select the HDMI output in the control panel. I'll try flexasio when I have more time.

If anyone is able to use Asio4all with this (or 390.77) driver on Window 10 Pro x64 1709 latest build (16299.248) please let me know by PM so as not to clutter the thread with OT posts. Thanks!
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Old 27th February 2018, 02:47   #49264  |  Link
khanmein
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@bran exchanged my GTX1070 for a RX580

GTX 1070 > RX 580
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Old 27th February 2018, 04:24   #49265  |  Link
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Yeah and for a reason that probably amounts to near zero visible improvement to boot. I had a laugh.
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Old 27th February 2018, 04:55   #49266  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by njfoses View Post
On my Sony 940E i greatly prefer to have control over motion interpolation so i have to sacrifice 4:4:4 as well. Being that none of the video content i watch is encoded in 4:4:4 this is a tradeoff worth taking imho.
sony TVs are usually able to motion interpolate and keeping 4:4:4...
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Old 27th February 2018, 09:51   #49267  |  Link
bran
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Originally Posted by khanmein View Post
@bran exchanged my GTX1070 for a RX580

GTX 1070 > RX 580
Yes, I'm fully aware of that. But as I said, nvidia outputs only 8 or 12bit. 12bit yields banding on my Samsung JS9505.

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NGU chroma scaling is *not* cheap on Polaris (at least on a 560), so if you're using that, maybe drop it down to Med/Low. NGU in general, is heavy on Polaris, so for luma scaling, you might drop it back from High=>Med if you're using that.
Yeah, I'm thinking about that. More or less only viewing 1080 and 4k material on 4k TV, so maybe Super-XBR is good enough to use as well on these ~10Mbps+ 1080p rips and Blurays?

So much has happened with madVR, and I know many of the options are "use what you prefer", but I'm having a hard time finding what is the best performance/PQ ratio on 1080p->4k upscaling.

As it is now im using NGU Sharp on all options, no Super Res, Random Error D, Enhance detail 1, low debanding, use colored noise.

This is making the RX580 Strix 3-fan edition go jetplane after a few mins :P
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Last edited by bran; 27th February 2018 at 10:38.
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Old 27th February 2018, 10:44   #49268  |  Link
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So why didn't you just stick with the superior card and output 8 bit? Seems like a silly idea to me to jump cards to get what probably amounts to an insignificant change in PQ.
Anything you'd do with scaling with the superior card would have a far bigger impact on the image.
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Old 27th February 2018, 10:55   #49269  |  Link
bran
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So why didn't you just stick with the superior card and output 8 bit? Seems like a silly idea to me to jump cards to get what probably amounts to an insignificant change in PQ.
Because I want HDR and BT2020 without banding?
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Anything you'd do with scaling with the superior card would have a far bigger impact on the image.
Actually, I'm having a hard time noticing major difference upscaling high-bitrate 1080p material to 4k with super-xbr vs NGU.
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Old 27th February 2018, 10:58   #49270  |  Link
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and who said you can't do that with 8 bit?
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Old 27th February 2018, 11:12   #49271  |  Link
bran
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and who said you can't do that with 8 bit?
An assumption of mine. I am under the impression that I will not get the same HDR/UHD quality using/outputting 8bit since it would need to downsample/dither. Is it wrong?

The Rec 2020 color space is a range of color. It was defined in 2012 as a standard for bit depth of 10 or 12 bits for 4k and 8k TVs.
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Last edited by bran; 27th February 2018 at 11:37.
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Old 27th February 2018, 11:16   #49272  |  Link
mytbyte
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@bran: I get cca 15 ms rendering time with NGU sharp set to medium medium on both chroma and image upscaling and other settings as you put them, for 1080p 24fps video...NGU high is in 24 ms range, very high is @ 70+ ms)...decoder is LAV D3D11 Native...I don't have it connected to 4K display, but I use 200% zoom...I find Xbr good quality and good enough for my eyes...GPU is @40% overall, VRAM is 1.4 GB

P.S. 10 bit dithered to 8 bit (especially on 4K matrix) looks OK, i.e. on par with a full 10 bit path

Last edited by mytbyte; 27th February 2018 at 11:42.
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Old 27th February 2018, 11:39   #49273  |  Link
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10-bit is import for the source but madVR's dithering is quite good. It is very hard to tell if you are outputting 8-bit or 10-bit, from madVR or the GPU. It usually requires test patterns of some kind to even notice the change when switching back and forth.

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Just exchanged my GTX1070 for a RX580 (because nvidia only supported 8 or 12bit output, and 12bit yields banding on my TV).
12-bit is exactly the same as 10-bit if you output 10-bit with madVR, the last two bits are simply 0s. I suppose a TV could process 12-bit badly and 10-bit well but it would be strange. Does 10-bit with the 580 not have the same banding issues the 1070 at 12-bit did? Usually if the 10-bit processing is good then 12-bit looks fine too.

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Is there any specific changes I would be advised to do in madVR and/or LAV Filters when switching from nvidia to AMD? Using DX11 in LAV Filters right now as it is, DX11 non-FSE in madVR.
Nothing needs changing for AMD. Those are good options and are the same ones I use with Nvidia.
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Old 27th February 2018, 11:54   #49274  |  Link
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@asmodian; if bran doesn't use FSE in MadVR, he doesn't get 10 or 12 bit output to HDMI anyway, no?
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Old 27th February 2018, 11:54   #49275  |  Link
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Originally Posted by bran View Post
An assumption of mine.
You didn't even test 8 bit? That's makes it even funnier.
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Old 27th February 2018, 12:18   #49276  |  Link
mclingo
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Originally Posted by bran View Post
An assumption of mine. I am under the impression that I will not get the same HDR/UHD quality using/outputting 8bit since it would need to downsample/dither. Is it wrong?

The Rec 2020 color space is a range of color. It was defined in 2012 as a standard for bit depth of 10 or 12 bits for 4k and 8k TVs.
Hi, this has been discussed a lot on here, i've come to the conclusion that there is no right and wrong answer as 10 vs 8bit is so close. I've chosen the 10 bit path for convenience though as it requires no templates, no switching or messing about. This is one of the best things about AMD cards for HTPC's, they are pretty much install and go as there are no issues with 3D setup and they have true 23,976 playback.

It is slightly worrying that the RX 580 struggles with NGU sharp, I was hoping it would tear through this.

I cant help feeling something has changed with either MADVR or the drivers though as I was able to use NGU sharp medium with my RX 550 up until about 2 months ago, now I can barely get NGU low for image upscale.
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Old 27th February 2018, 12:45   #49277  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by bran View Post
An assumption of mine. I am under the impression that I will not get the same HDR/UHD quality using/outputting 8bit since it would need to downsample/dither. Is it wrong?

The Rec 2020 color space is a range of color. It was defined in 2012 as a standard for bit depth of 10 or 12 bits for 4k and 8k TVs.
most TV are 8 bit and you need dithering anyway.
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@asmodian; if bran doesn't use FSE in MadVR, he doesn't get 10 or 12 bit output to HDMI anyway, no?
windows 10 can do 10 bit in fullscreen windowed. and the output of the GPU doesn't care about this anyway.

amd for example is always send 10 bit if it is possible by default.
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Old 27th February 2018, 13:16   #49278  |  Link
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All HDR TV's are 10 bit
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Old 27th February 2018, 13:22   #49279  |  Link
nevcairiel
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All HDR TV's are 10 bit
Don't believe everything you read in marketing brochures.
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Old 27th February 2018, 14:01   #49280  |  Link
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indeed, however I follow reviews closely and there doesnt seem to be any evidence of any manufacturers making false claims, although I tend only to follow the mid / higher end reviews.
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