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Old 25th October 2012, 19:59   #15061  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Anyway, I'm getting this golden sample 650Ti, it's not that far from the 660 and it's $100 cheaper too
Actually the OEM 660 is not the same as the retail 660 neither of which are very close to the 660 Ti. The OEM 660 has 50% more shader units (but that 650 is only ~23% slower due to clock speed) and 58% more memory bandwidth than that 650 so they aren't that close! That 650 Ti only has 63% of the texture fill and 61% of the memory bandwidth compared to the 660 Ti.

That 650 Ti should still be great for MadVR but the 660 Ti is much faster.

Last edited by Asmodian; 26th October 2012 at 02:09.
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Old 25th October 2012, 20:17   #15062  |  Link
NicolasRobidoux
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@6233638:
Thank you!
Again, this shows that Catmull-Rom + AR downsampling (through linear light: it has to) is really high quality. If it was not, it would be obvious. As it turns out, except for the better anti-aliasing of EWA QuadraticJinc, and the slightly better anti-haloing of Catmull-Rom AR, the two methods, amazingly, are quite close. Catmull-Rom + AR is also slightly sharper.
(Note: EWA QuadraticJinc is the "natural" downsampler of my arsenal. It's not as sharp as EWA LanczosSharp or EWA Lanczos Radius 3, which is almost as sharp as tensor Lanczos 3 (which is too sharp IMHO anyway, although lots of people like sharpness). It also has less halo.)
P.S. Moire drives DSLR folk nuts. So, I paid a lot of attention to it.
P.S.2 If you enlarge both, you can see the usual difference between a high quality tensor method and a high quality EWA method: The checkerboard mode is suppressed with EWA, and not with Catmull-Rom AR. Same with the fly.

Last edited by NicolasRobidoux; 25th October 2012 at 22:14.
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Old 25th October 2012, 20:42   #15063  |  Link
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I'm also quite impressed at how EWA quadratic B-spline windowed Jinc 3 (which is a linear method) manages to compete with a nonlinear method with explicit halo suppression without being much softer.
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Old 26th October 2012, 01:15   #15064  |  Link
jmone
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I've got the GTX 660 installed with 306.97 drivers and it is working fine but I want to check if I've got the correct settings esp colour space:
Setup: HTPC --> HDMI --> AVR --> HDMI --> TV/PJ (note: the TV was prof calibrated a few years ago against the Cable Box that is on the same HDMI Input to the TV from the AVR so I'm guessing it is Limited Range)

Current Colour Space on the Dedicated HTPC (eg no desktop or game useage): Limited Range in Nvidia and Full Range in madVR - When using the AVSHD 709 test patters for Black, APL and White Clipping I see flashing just above 16 (Reference Black) and just below 235 (Reference White) which I think is "Correct". I also tried using the madNvLevelsTweaker to push full range in the driver and while this worked I did not notice a change in the test pattern behaviour. When I change madVR to limited range then I see all levels of the AVSHD 709 test pattern flash regardless of if the driver is in full or limited range mode (note: I've not tested with the PJ yet that is on the second output from the AVR). My real world test BD for this is the Spinning Cube on the opening scene in Transformers as there is alot of detail on the surface of the cube that can get hidden in the "shadows" as it spins and I the extra detail is certainly noticable when madVR is at Limited.

- Any suggestions on the Colour Space in this setup?
- Any other tweaks in the nvidia control panel that should also be changed from default.

Thanks!
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Old 26th October 2012, 03:12   #15065  |  Link
FreeFall
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madshi,

I have come across a problem with Zoom Player when using MadVR.

Playback won't start on the first try when using the delay playback start until renderer queue is full option and Zoom Players automatic subtitle stream selection. It will start normally if you press play a second time or don't use the above option.

Subtitle Settings.
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?zww21g5ua3ebe1f

This only happens with video files that use PGS (Blu-ray) subtitles.

Test Video.
http://www.mediafire.com/?7ge5zvk6k99g22y

Zoom Player 8.5 Max
MadVR 0.84.3
LAV Splitter / Video (CUVID) / Audio 0.52
xy-VSFilter 3.0.0.65
GeForce GTX 580 (306.97)
Windows 7 Pro


Thanks.

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Old 26th October 2012, 04:31   #15066  |  Link
leeperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Actually the OEM 660 is not the same as the retail 660 neither of which are very close to the 660 Ti. The OEM 660 has 50% more shader units (but that 650 is only ~23% slower due to clock speed) and 58% more memory bandwidth than that 650 so they aren't that close! That 650 Ti only has 63% of the texture fill and 61% of the memory bandwidth compared to the 660 Ti.

That 650 Ti should still be great for MadVR but the 660 Ti is much faster.
Well, I made the assumption that mVR needs crunching power more than anything else and that memory bandwidth would only be useful for FSAA and so?

Several reviews claim that the 660Ti doesn't make much sense over the vanilla 660 due to the price difference, and as far as "Floating-point performance" is concerned the GS 650Ti reaches 1545 GFlops, the retail 660 1881 GFlops and the 660Ti 2459 Gflops.

Using CUVID, my 264 GFlops() 8800GS can do full Jinc3 AR 25fps SD to 1080p(60% GPU load) and native 1080p Jinc3 AR chroma(77% GPU load), I'm hoping to be able to process 59.94fps SD, 29.97 1440x1080(with a 16/9 DAR) and 25fps/50fps 720p

Street prices with shipping go as follow around here:
650Ti: 130€
GS 650Ti: 140€
660: 205€
660Ti: 270€

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Sharp make good LCD panels, but bad TVs. (though I would avoid anything using a Quattron UV2A panel rather than an RGB UV2A panel)
Yeah, their Quattron's measured poorly in those tests(2260:1 native CR instead of >4K:1 for the regular UVēA's) and as much as their 630 serie supports 24Hz, the 730 does not and several of them are just pimped Philips OEM(I guess that'd explain why their golden samples use Sharp panels ^^) from what lesnumeriques.com are saying.

They also posted close-up pictures of many LCD panels. Apparently, all you need is a digital camera with a macro mode...I might try that on a rainy sunday.

Last edited by leeperry; 27th October 2012 at 02:14.
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Old 26th October 2012, 07:06   #15067  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Ok so apparently the last couple of madVR versions don't acknowledge the ICC profile set by Windows...it used to consider it in previous versions of madVR though. I think it has to do with madVR's new behavior where it resets Direct3D or something like that because the screen flickers when I resize videos into fullscreen exclusive mode and before the last couple of versions madVR didn't do that.
LUT based ICC? I just tried to burn the gamma to death via the graphic card's CLUT in the nvidia drivers, and mVR doesn't bypass it, whatever in windowed or FSE mode(XPSP3/8800GS/old rendering path). Non-LUT ICC's need "color managed" compliant apps indeed, but as far as I can see Argyll's CLUT's do get through.

PS: even checking "disable GPU gamma ramps" doesn't bypass the graphic card's CLUT on my system.

Last edited by leeperry; 26th October 2012 at 16:49.
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Old 26th October 2012, 13:27   #15068  |  Link
6233638
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So Windows 8 is officially out now today. Is anyone else experiencing issues with madVR's refresh rate changer?

1080p24 is outputting 1080p23, and 1080p60 is outputting 1080p59. I am able to select and use 1080p24/60 on the desktop without any problems outside of madVR.
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Old 26th October 2012, 13:30   #15069  |  Link
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Originally Posted by iSunrise View Post
Yes, I am definately using the default Windows 7 DVD Navigator. Iīm not using MPC-HC though. In PotPlayer under Preferences -> Hardware -> DVD/Blu-ray in the Navigator selection I have selected "Microsoft DVD navigation (recommended)", which is also the default.

Hereīs my filter chain (as configured in PotPlayer):

DVD Navigator
LAV Video Decoder
Madshi Video Renderer
LAV Audio Decoder
DirectSound Audio Renderer

(I also have LAV splitter source configured for MPEG2 PS and MPEG 2 TS.)


The strange thing is that I have basically the same filter chain as 6233638. Even the video decoder is the same (LAV). The only things that are different are the audio renderer, the graphics card drivers and the media player.


I know and thatīs also how it should be. What Iīm wondering though (just out of interest) is if it would be possible to use that algorithm in such a way that you could upscale e.x. with Jinc and let the anti-ringing filter remove ringing more aggressively, so that we donīt have to use SoftCubic which basically softens the whole image (if used on luma). Because thatīs one of the reasons why you (or even me in some cases) use SoftCubic in the first place, to hide source artefacts (which alters the image to some extend).
I have three HTPCs - none will play DVDs with madVR & MPC-HC, but have a HP laptop with a HP version of Cyberlink loaded and it will play DVD with madVR.
If I load Cyberlink on the HTPCs they still won't play DVDs with madVR.
I've tried latest lav decoders 0.52 still no good.
This is doing my head in
I've triad the GPL Mpeg2 decoder - no better.
I really wish we could get to the bottom of this!
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Last edited by Neeto; 26th October 2012 at 13:36.
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Old 26th October 2012, 14:34   #15070  |  Link
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In the madvr wiki i found this:

For NVidia GPU owners I recommend to create custom resolutions. That makes sure that the GPU output is untouched. With the default HD/SD output modes, the GPU driver stretches the data behind madVR's back which can result in banding problems.

I just added a 50hz resolution from the list. is this not enough? can banding problems still occur? what excactly is my gpu doing?

I also found this:

For NVidia custom resolutions and ATI PowerStrip tweaking, here are the official CEA timings you should use for the various 1080p formats:

Code:

Refresh Rate, Horizontal Active Pixels, Front Porch, Sync Width, Back Porch, Total Pixels, Vertical Active Pixels, Front Porch, Sync Width, Back Porch, Total Pixels, Pixel Clock
23.976Hz, 1920, 638, 44, 148, 2750, 1080, 4, 5, 36, 1125, 74.2500 / 1.001 (= 74.175824175824175824175824175824)
24.000Hz, 1920, 638, 44, 148, 2750, 1080, 4, 5, 36, 1125, 74.2500
25.000Hz, 1920, 528, 44, 148, 2640, 1080, 4, 5, 36, 1125, 74.2500
50.000Hz, 1920, 528, 44, 148, 2640, 1080, 4, 5, 36, 1125, 148.5000
59.940Hz, 1920, 88, 44, 148, 2200, 1080, 4, 5, 36, 1125, 148.5000 / 1.001 (= 148.35164835164835164835164835165)
60.000Hz, 1920, 88, 44, 148, 2200, 1080, 4, 5, 36, 1125, 148.5000

I cant seem to change all theese values in the nvidia driver. The ones that i can change are set as above by default - maybe except for the 23.976 profile. Is it correct that i dont have much use for all of this this when i use reclock and a 50hz setting? (using 50hz lets me whatch ether pal content or 24hz content without having to change settings + it seems more stable for some reason + films are a tad smother without having the so-called soap opera effect.)
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Old 26th October 2012, 16:54   #15071  |  Link
leeperry
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Also, maybe someone else already reported it but whatever page I close mVR's config on, each time I close it, the next time it will reopen on the main page of my active display under /devices/...it was pretty handy for rolling purposes when it was remembering the last active page
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Old 26th October 2012, 18:42   #15072  |  Link
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They will hopefully have industry-leading contrast performance, though OLED does not guarantee it. Sony's OLED headset only has 10,000:1 contrast for example (5,000:1 when calibrated to reference levels) which is no better than a high end plasma.
Why don't they have infinite contrast (shut off black pixels)?
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Old 26th October 2012, 18:48   #15073  |  Link
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Why don't they have infinite contrast (shut off black pixels)?
Because OLEDs have no backlight, everytime they show black they shut off the pixels, there isnt really another way for them =P
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Old 26th October 2012, 19:16   #15074  |  Link
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Well that doesn't make sense. If the pixel is shut off then that's surely as dark as possible, unless there's bleed from the other pixels or something. I can't see how a screen with a backlight could ever be darker than an OLED. From what I've seen OLED can be brighter too.
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Old 26th October 2012, 19:53   #15075  |  Link
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Because OLEDs have no backlight, everytime they show black they shut off the pixels, there isnt really another way for them =P
That's exactly what I'm asking why they don't have infinite contrast.
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Old 26th October 2012, 20:02   #15076  |  Link
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I don't know the technical reasons behind it, but they are definitely not turning the pixels off in their head-mounted displays, and a number of OLED displays are incapable of turning the pixels completely off.

The specs Samsung announced for its 55" OLED panel were only 150,000:1 at a brightness of 600cd/m2, which is roughly on par with the Pioneer KRP Plasmas. (once both are calibrated to 100cd/m2 brightness)

Last edited by 6233638; 26th October 2012 at 20:19.
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Old 26th October 2012, 23:26   #15077  |  Link
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Question:
Have you thought about adding a performance metric along with the sharpness, ringing, and aliasing, etc. to the scaling pages?
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Old 27th October 2012, 03:47   #15078  |  Link
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When you watch a b&w movie, is Chroma upscaling still happening?
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Old 27th October 2012, 03:54   #15079  |  Link
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It would depend on how the video was encoded I imagine. It could be encoded as RGB or monochrome video.
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Old 27th October 2012, 04:55   #15080  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ajp_anton View Post
That's exactly what I'm asking why they don't have infinite contrast.
Well, who knows I guess, I always assumed they'd pretty much all be like this one: http://flatpanelshd.com/review.php?s...&id=1289487180 or this one: http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-tele...3246/test.html And hopefully they are

Last edited by Hprd; 27th October 2012 at 04:59.
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