DVD-Audio ripper - Page 7

bonschen · 5th October 2005, 19:22

hm, confused.

yes, right.
the dvd-a with watermarked string was another (john williams - a.i.)

when i copy the audio_ts & video_ts folder from the BMG - Complex to HD
and burn the files on a dvd 9, have i a full funktional copy of the BMG - Complex ?

drpaulng · 6th October 2005, 02:09

I think so. I have never experimented with double-layer DVD burning...so you may try and tell us. So, did you successfully burn any standalone player version of wartermarked modification with DiscWelder? It seems there is no software to detect audio watermark right now. Any idea?

bonschen · 9th October 2005, 12:15

watermarked dvd-audio !

when i use the ppcm ripper with orig. dvd-a i become a 2ch wav.
6ch dont work.
and when i make a copy with dvd-a ripper, the windvd standig still after 32 sec.
but i find a way, to capture 6ch wav from watermarked dvd-a!

my way,
i use dvd-a ripper,-> i make a iso,-> mount with alcohol und safe the mlp 6ch
with dvd-a explorer.
after this, i have 6ch mlp with watermarked string. i play the mlp with
-> creative media source and recorded this.(option record synchron and record peak check level) i play the record button and the musik play&rec. automatic.

after this, i have a 6ch wav 96000Hz 24bit but the header is not good.
i play the wav with winamp and i use the "disk writer" plug-in with option,
output file mode: force wav file. !!! do not check "convert to format"

after this, i have a superb 6ch wav and i import this in "steinberg nuendo"
i have a audigy platinum and use the audigy 24/96 asio driver.
i save the 6monos and convert this with,-> minnetonka mlp encoder to
-> watermarked free 6ch mlp.

drpaulng · 9th October 2005, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonschen

watermarked dvd-audio !

when i use the ppcm ripper with orig. dvd-a i become a 2ch wav.
6ch dont work.
and when i make a copy with dvd-a ripper, the windvd standig still after 32 sec.
but i find a way, to capture 6ch wav from watermarked dvd-a!

my way,
i use dvd-a ripper,-> i make a iso,-> mount with alcohol und safe the mlp 6ch
with dvd-a explorer.
after this, i have 6ch mlp with watermarked string. i play the mlp with
-> creative media source and recorded this.(option record synchron and record peak check level) i play the record button and the musik play&rec. automatic.

after this, i have a 6ch wav 96000Hz 24bit but the header is not good.
i play the wav with winamp and i use the "disk writer" plug-in with option,
output file mode: force wav file. !!! do not check "convert to format"

after this, i have a superb 6ch wav and i import this in "steinberg nuendo"
i have a audigy platinum and use the audigy 24/96 asio driver.
i save the 6monos and convert this with,-> minnetonka mlp encoder to
-> watermarked free 6ch mlp.

In order to rip the 6 wav files by ppcm ripper, you need to pre-set WinDVD in 6 channel mode (not stereo mode). However, your way is interesting. It seems you routed the 6 wav files by re-recording it rather than ripping it. But I am a little skeptical on your method because the audio water is supposed to be "robust" and thus resistant to DA-AD conversion, up- or down-sampling as well as mp3 conversion. If your re-recording method can rip off and audio watermark without deteriorating the sound quality, then everybody should follow your method or somebody should write a small program to do it straight.

bonschen · 9th October 2005, 14:52

Quote:

In order to rip the 6 wav files by ppcm ripper, you need to pre-set WinDVD in 6 channel mode (not stereo mode)

yes, with watermark free dvd-a. testet with advd-a ripper iso "bmg - complex".

dont work with a watermark dvd-a. with the original dvd-a, i can capture
with ppcm ripper only in 2ch mode. (windvd preferences is 6ch mode)
and with a dvd-a ripper iso, the dvd-a iso standing still after 32 seconds.

quote from ppcmripper "readme"

Quote:

5. Only stereo (original or downmix) can be captured from CSS/CPPM-protected discs.
That is the feature of WinDVD Player. For multichannel capture decrypt disc first.

ok, my way is not perfect.
the a.i. dvd-a has a 88200Hz sample rate and i recorded in 92000
and winamp & steinberg nuendo says 92000Hz 24bit 6ch.

drpaulng · 9th October 2005, 16:07

So, you should make sure you rip a watermarked track and re-record it and then encode it with surcode mlp. Make a multi-channel dvd-a disc with Discwelder and burn it to a DVD-R (or DVD-RW to save research fee). Place it in a standalone DVD-A player to test for the audio-watermark resistance to your manipulation.

bonschen · 9th October 2005, 17:37

sorry, i dont have a standalone dvd-a player. :-(
have you a link for a low price dvd-a player?

ok, i authored a dvd-a with discwelder chrome.
when i played the dvd-a with my encodet mlp's, the dvd-a standing still at 32 seconds.

when i played with power dvd the disc run's, and the dvd-a ripped iso works too.
i dont know? any idea?

i have win dvd 5.3 b 02 022 and when i make a update to 6 or 7,
i have in the preferenses 2ch, not more.

drpaulng · 10th October 2005, 02:34

Well, maybe as instructed, you cannot rip the DVD-A properly when you have already installed the CREATIVE AUDIGY2 SOUND CARD. To my best knowledge, if de-watermarking is that easy, the author of dvdaripper should have announce the method himself. I think the watermark should still be embedded within your audio track in any format (wma/mp3/wav/ogg...anything you say). You might be interested in buying a second hand DVD-A player at about half-price, for example, a PIONEER. Anyway, the best for now is to build a meida center just like the microsoft-intel joint product. The next generation HD-DVD player would be a multi-media small computer rather than a standalone player. But as a Gold-standard reference, you should experiment with your method and put it to the test with a standalone player.

Qjimbo · 11th October 2005, 21:06

Some people were saying earlier in this thread how 44.1Khz is full quality anyway since we can't hear higher than about 22.05kHz. However, what you have to remember, is that having a 22.05kHz pitch sound in a 44.1kHz sample rate file will be stored as a triangle wave, being full on the first sample, and negative full on the second sample. Meaning high frequencies have no detail to them.

However at 96kHz, a 22.05kHz wave would be stored more accuratly. It's very audiophiley I know, and the sales of LPs are outsellfing SACD and DVDA combined because people don't really care about the quality, but it's still good stuff to know. Also the supposed "analog warmth" is apparently inaudible high frequencies.

CWR03 · 11th October 2005, 21:22

You should do some more reading on this subject, and maybe some sampling of audio - the 44.1/22.05 isn't khz, it's kb/s, a datarate, which significantly affects the quality of an encoded file.

Edit: Never mind, I got them backwards, sorry. Even so, a 96 kb/s 22.05khz file won't reproduce great audio.

KpeX · 11th October 2005, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWR03

You should do some more reading on this subject, and maybe some sampling of audio - the 44.1/22.05 isn't khz, it's kb/s, a datarate, which significantly affects the quality of an encoded file.

Actually 44.1 is the sampling rate, and the unit is kHz. What Qjimbo is referring to is the nyquist frequency, i.e. the max frequency that can be produced from a given sample is half the sampling rate. Even for cd-audio the nyquist frequency is much above the average human's hearing range, which is why many doubt the benefits of DVD-A/SACD/etc. You may want to do some reading on hydrogenaudio.org, there are many discussions there about the benefits of higher sampling rates / bit depths.

mimungr · 11th October 2005, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qjimbo

However, what you have to remember, is that having a 22.05kHz pitch sound in a 44.1kHz sample rate file will be stored as a triangle wave, being full on the first sample, and negative full on the second sample. Meaning high frequencies have no detail to them.

This is false. A 44.1 kHz digital signal can perfectly reproduce all frequencies below 22.05 kHz; this was proven by Harry Nyquist. The error is introduced by quantization, not sampling.

The flaw in your example is that the output of the DAC is fed through a 22.05 kHz lowpass filter. Since all the harmonics in your triangle wave are above 22.05 kHz, they are filtered out and just a pure 22.05 kHz sine wave remains.

Google for Nyquist. There are many detailed explanations available.

meilin · 13th October 2005, 11:36

Which file to download from rarewares?

Qjimbo · 13th October 2005, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimungr

This is false. A 44.1 kHz digital signal can perfectly reproduce all frequencies below 22.05 kHz; this was proven by Harry Nyquist. The error is introduced by quantization, not sampling.

The flaw in your example is that the output of the DAC is fed through a 22.05 kHz lowpass filter. Since all the harmonics in your triangle wave are above 22.05 kHz, they are filtered out and just a pure 22.05 kHz sine wave remains.

Google for Nyquist. There are many detailed explanations available.

Oooh now I understand, thanks for the info!

EDIT: Anyone noticed how this has like totally dissapeared? Searching google for anything related to DVD Audio ripping brings up loads of sites with software that rips the audio from DVD-Video discs ¬_¬ It's like a conspiricy =/

bonschen · 15th October 2005, 17:52

ok, i have a dvd-a player (pioneer dv-668 av) :-)

first:
i copy the 6ch *.mlp from the blue man group - complex
with watermark free dvd to hd, and authored with chrome a new dvd.
the dvd works fine.

second:
i authored a dvd with the recorded and converted *.mlp's
from the watermarked dvd-a john williams - A.I.
the dvd dont work. after 30 seconds, the dvd-a standing still.

what a fu**ing copyprotection is this.

the next test comes. i play with a standalone dvd-a player
and record directly with steinberg nuendo, maybe works this, i hope.

kinjamin · 1st January 2006, 11:16

Any ideas on Metallicas Black DVDAudio album to DVD?

Digga · 2nd January 2006, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by meilin

Which file to download from rarewares?

the files at rarewares are long gone. you'll have a hard time finding it on the web, your best bet might be some other forums etc.

j_olson · 18th January 2006, 01:34

The old Felten paper on Verance Watermark removal from 2001:

http://www.usenix.org/events/sec01/craver.pdf

xypher · 14th March 2006, 21:12

Sorry, but eMule network is closed down. Is there anyone who can help with these 3 programs? dvdaexplorer ppcmripper dvdaripper. Please send me a PM or a link . Hate to grovel.

setarip_old · 15th March 2006, 00:12

@xypher

Hi!

What kind of help are you seeking regarding those three programs?

6th October 2005, 02:09	#122 \| Link
drpaulng Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 225	I think so. I have never experimented with double-layer DVD burning...so you may try and tell us. So, did you successfully burn any standalone player version of wartermarked modification with DiscWelder? It seems there is no software to detect audio watermark right now. Any idea? __________________ Paul Ng

9th October 2005, 16:07	#126 \| Link
drpaulng Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 225	So, you should make sure you rip a watermarked track and re-record it and then encode it with surcode mlp. Make a multi-channel dvd-a disc with Discwelder and burn it to a DVD-R (or DVD-RW to save research fee). Place it in a standalone DVD-A player to test for the audio-watermark resistance to your manipulation. __________________ Paul Ng

10th October 2005, 02:34	#128 \| Link
drpaulng Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 225	Well, maybe as instructed, you cannot rip the DVD-A properly when you have already installed the CREATIVE AUDIGY2 SOUND CARD. To my best knowledge, if de-watermarking is that easy, the author of dvdaripper should have announce the method himself. I think the watermark should still be embedded within your audio track in any format (wma/mp3/wav/ogg...anything you say). You might be interested in buying a second hand DVD-A player at about half-price, for example, a PIONEER. Anyway, the best for now is to build a meida center just like the microsoft-intel joint product. The next generation HD-DVD player would be a multi-media small computer rather than a standalone player. But as a Gold-standard reference, you should experiment with your method and put it to the test with a standalone player. __________________ Paul Ng

11th October 2005, 21:22	#130 \| Link
CWR03 Custom User Title Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,733	You should do some more reading on this subject, and maybe some sampling of audio - the 44.1/22.05 isn't khz, it's kb/s, a datarate, which significantly affects the quality of an encoded file. Edit: Never mind, I got them backwards, sorry. Even so, a 96 kb/s 22.05khz file won't reproduce great audio. Last edited by CWR03; 11th October 2005 at 22:06.

14th March 2006, 21:12	#139 \| Link
xypher Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1	request.. Sorry, but eMule network is closed down. Is there anyone who can help with these 3 programs? dvdaexplorer ppcmripper dvdaripper. Please send me a PM or a link . Hate to grovel.

5th October 2005, 19:22	#121 \| Link
bonschen Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6	hm, confused. yes, right. the dvd-a with watermarked string was another (john williams - a.i.) when i copy the audio_ts & video_ts folder from the BMG - Complex to HD and burn the files on a dvd 9, have i a full funktional copy of the BMG - Complex ?

9th October 2005, 12:15	#123 \| Link
bonschen Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6	watermarked dvd-audio ! when i use the ppcm ripper with orig. dvd-a i become a 2ch wav. 6ch dont work. and when i make a copy with dvd-a ripper, the windvd standig still after 32 sec. but i find a way, to capture 6ch wav from watermarked dvd-a! my way, i use dvd-a ripper,-> i make a iso,-> mount with alcohol und safe the mlp 6ch with dvd-a explorer. after this, i have 6ch mlp with watermarked string. i play the mlp with -> creative media source and recorded this.(option record synchron and record peak check level) i play the record button and the musik play&rec. automatic. after this, i have a 6ch wav 96000Hz 24bit but the header is not good. i play the wav with winamp and i use the "disk writer" plug-in with option, output file mode: force wav file. !!! do not check "convert to format" after this, i have a superb 6ch wav and i import this in "steinberg nuendo" i have a audigy platinum and use the audigy 24/96 asio driver. i save the 6monos and convert this with,-> minnetonka mlp encoder to -> watermarked free 6ch mlp.

9th October 2005, 17:37	#127 \| Link
bonschen Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6	sorry, i dont have a standalone dvd-a player. :-( have you a link for a low price dvd-a player? ok, i authored a dvd-a with discwelder chrome. when i played the dvd-a with my encodet mlp's, the dvd-a standing still at 32 seconds. when i played with power dvd the disc run's, and the dvd-a ripped iso works too. i dont know? any idea? i have win dvd 5.3 b 02 022 and when i make a update to 6 or 7, i have in the preferenses 2ch, not more.

11th October 2005, 21:06	#129 \| Link
Qjimbo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 85	Some people were saying earlier in this thread how 44.1Khz is full quality anyway since we can't hear higher than about 22.05kHz. However, what you have to remember, is that having a 22.05kHz pitch sound in a 44.1kHz sample rate file will be stored as a triangle wave, being full on the first sample, and negative full on the second sample. Meaning high frequencies have no detail to them. However at 96kHz, a 22.05kHz wave would be stored more accuratly. It's very audiophiley I know, and the sales of LPs are outsellfing SACD and DVDA combined because people don't really care about the quality, but it's still good stuff to know. Also the supposed "analog warmth" is apparently inaudible high frequencies.

13th October 2005, 11:36	#133 \| Link
meilin Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 14	Which file to download from rarewares?

15th October 2005, 17:52	#135 \| Link
bonschen Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6	ok, i have a dvd-a player (pioneer dv-668 av) :-) first: i copy the 6ch .mlp from the blue man group - complex with watermark free dvd to hd, and authored with chrome a new dvd. the dvd works fine. second: i authored a dvd with the recorded and converted .mlp's from the watermarked dvd-a john williams - A.I. the dvd dont work. after 30 seconds, the dvd-a standing still. what a fu**ing copyprotection is this. the next test comes. i play with a standalone dvd-a player and record directly with steinberg nuendo, maybe works this, i hope.

1st January 2006, 11:16	#136 \| Link
kinjamin Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2	Any ideas on Metallicas Black DVDAudio album to DVD?

18th January 2006, 01:34	#138 \| Link
j_olson Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 117	The old Felten paper on Verance Watermark removal from 2001: http://www.usenix.org/events/sec01/craver.pdf

15th March 2006, 00:12	#140 \| Link
setarip_old Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 16,267	@xypher Hi! What kind of help are you seeking regarding those three programs?