madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[noee]

@huhn: You could try setting up a profile in CCC, then modifying the profile to "disable" the power mgt. Numerous examples out there...

[Jong]

Originally Posted by madshi

The math is pretty simple: 50.0011Hz is 0.0011Hz too high. If you do the math, this results in 0.066 frame repeats per minute. Or one frame repeat every 15 minutes. If the clock deviation is pretty much zero, that's what it is. Try without Videoclock. It might actually result in less frame repeats. If the clock deviation is > 0% then it might counter the too-high .

I guess I don't understand why this happens with DVD but not with .mkv or even .vob, played back at the same refresh. Yes, I know DVD and file playback are different (nevcairiel, if you are reading ) but does that have to mean one will be worse? It looks like Videoclock is not doing its job here and I thought MadVR and Videoclock were supposed to cooperate to eliminate judder from small differences like this

[DragonQ]

Originally Posted by noee

@huhn: You could try setting up a profile in CCC, then modifying the profile to "disable" the power mgt. Numerous examples out there...

It's also a good idea to make sure the various related items in Windows' Power Options are set properly - it was impossible for me to get smooth playback in MadVR on my new laptop until I did this. The two big ones are Multimedia Settings -> When Playing Video and Intel Graphics Settings (when applicable).

[Prinz]

Originally Posted by madshi

Not sure why that is happening. I don't remember anyone else reporting this, so it might be something specific to your PC/installation somehow.

I have the same Problem. It been always this way with exclusive mode on my PC. (ATI 2600 XT - Win 7 x64)

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Jong

I guess I don't understand why this happens with DVD but not with .mkv or even .vob, played back at the same refresh.

Well, what does the OSD say when doing mkv/vob playback?

Originally Posted by Jong

It looks like Videoclock is not doing its job here and I thought MadVR and Videoclock were supposed to cooperate to eliminate judder from small differences like this

madVR and VideoClock don't "work together". VideoClock asks madVR about which refresh rate it has measured. That's the only thing where they talk to each other. I don't know the exact design of VideoClock. You'd have to ask the JRiver guys about that.

[Dodgexander]

Originally Posted by Prinz

I have the same Problem. It been always this way with exclusive mode on my PC. (ATI 2600 XT - Win 7 x64)

Originally Posted by madshi

Looks much better.

Not sure why that is happening. I don't remember anyone else reporting this, so it might be something specific to your PC/installation somehow.

Ill try get a screenshot next time it happens. Perhaps its related to other applications using the dxva, flash for example?

[Prinz]

On my System the stuck window is always clearly stuck in Fading away (window is semi transparent).

And I can most of the time unstuck the window, if I do the following:

1. Right click on taskbar and start the taskmanager.
2. Clicking at least twice on the Taskmanager Icon (so that is minimized and restored at leat once)
3. with Taskmanager restored, close it.

Most of the time then also the stuck window disappears too (sometimes after 2-3 seconds). Sometimes I have to do this more then once to unstuck the windows.

[Jong]

Originally Posted by madshi

Well, what does the OSD say when doing mkv/vob playback?


madVR and VideoClock don't "work together". VideoClock asks madVR about which refresh rate it has measured. That's the only thing where they talk to each other. I don't know the exact design of VideoClock. You'd have to ask the JRiver guys about that.

OK Madshi, thanks. I think in getting it clearer in my head now.

So you would expect some clock deviation if Videoclock is correcting for a refresh rate error right? When I play a .vob I get a clock deviation of .0022% and a repeat rate in days. When I play the DVD the clock deviation converges on zero and I get a much higher error rate. Seems MC is not enabling Videoclock for DVD.

[Dodgexander]

Originally Posted by Prinz

On my System the stuck window is always clearly stuck in Fading away (window is semi transparent).

And I can most of the time unstuck the window, if I do the following:

1. Right click on taskbar and start the taskmanager.
2. Clicking at least twice on the Taskmanager Icon (so that is minimized and restored at leat once)
3. with Taskmanager restored, close it.

Most of the time then also the stuck window disappears too (sometimes after 2-3 seconds). Sometimes I have to do this more then once to unstuck the windows.

For me just right clicking on the video does the trick, since it takes it out of exclusive mode, then everything flushes and goes back to normal again, until it next happens..

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Jong

So you would expect some clock deviation if Videoclock is correcting for a refresh rate error right? When I play a .vob I get a clock deviation of .0022% and a repeat rate in days. When I play the DVD the clock deviation converges on zero and I get a much higher error rate. Seems MC is not enabling Videoclock for DVD.

Yes, seems like that.

[YxP]

Originally Posted by Dodgexander

Disabling exclusive mode results in dropped frames sadly...

I had problems with windowed mode as well. Minimizing other windows (especially if you have facebook open) on your first screen might help, at least it worked for me. Using windowed mode now myself

[aufkrawall]

Weird thing:
After some time I'm getting framedrops when I play this video:
http://www.oc-burner.de/ftp/Videos/j...dertest_60.mp4

Display is at 60.02 Hz, so it is higher than video fps.
Any idea why framedrops do occur?
Already played around with buffer sizes etc.

[Prinz]

Originally Posted by Dodgexander

For me just right clicking on the video does the trick, since it takes it out of exclusive mode, then everything flushes and goes back to normal again, until it next happens..

I mean it's a way without leaving the exclusive mode. Of course leaving the exclusive mode always works too.

[huhn]

using cpu everything is fine and the full power of the gpu is used
max power state all fine
cpu decoing = http://s3.imgimg.de/uploads/cpu130a761fpng.png

using cp or native results in frame drop. because the gpu runs at 400 mhz max

native = http://s3.imgimg.de/uploads/nativeb0ed5fedpng.png
copy back = http://s3.imgimg.de/uploads/copyback4e8ec518png.png

i'm posting this to show that using dxva ist stopping the gpu from entering max power state with is bad for madvr that is all

by the way cp works a lot better in this case and that doesn't make sense at all.

Originally Posted by DragonQ

I'm sure DXVA2 Native works fine on AMD. IIRC the reason for DXVA2 Copy-Back not working well enough on older AMD cards is simply to do with their architecture.

like u can see it didn't and cp is not much slower for me

@huhn: You could try setting up a profile in CCC, then modifying the profile to "disable" the power mgt. Numerous examples out there...

doing this mpc hc crashed or the cpu clock still goes down to 400 mhz. i only managed to get it running with cp and only sometimes.

i simple use my cpu and every thing is fine is not like this can be changed anyway

tl;dr
dxva max 400 mhz cpu max 850 that's all

[Jong]

Playing a R1 DVD (same soft telecined DVD as earlier) @50Hz using MC I get a reported clock deviation of 0%, but very few drop/repeated frames (none in a few minutes). The "x repeat frames every.." line is completely missing from the OSD. Does this make sense? If I play a 24p mkv I get >4% clock deviation, which is more what I would expect. But with no clock deviation and such a big frame rate/refresh rate difference shouldn't we be seeing frames repeated like crazy? And where has the "x repeat frames every" line gone?

[Dodgexander]

Examples of the ghosting images you get on a second screen in exclusive mode.

[Niyawa]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

Personally i prefer copy-back, because its just less hassle and allows all madVR features, like IVTC which currently doesn't work with Native.
On some GPUs madVR will even do its own "copy-back" internally because its currently the only way for it to get maximum quality, but i think thats mostly limited to NVIDIA, IIRC. In this case, copy-back or CUVID is even more to be recommended, as the performance penality is nearly the same, and using cb/cuvid gives you the flexibility again.

However, you should only use Copy-Back if you have a SSE 4.1 capable CPU (introduced with Penryn Core2 models, on the AMD side only with Bulldozer)

I have a Core 2 Duo so I'm good to go, thanks for the wonderful answer.

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

Thats to be expected, and part of the whole idea that is copy-back. With copy-back, all DXVA stuff stays internal to the decoder, and the outside world has no clue that DXVA is being used - which means it has the full flexibility of a software decoder and none of the DXVA Native limitations.

Now it makes more sense. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by madshi

Which bug do you mean? I don't remember...

It's not really a bug. You mentioned it here and here.

[yahyoh]

thanks a lot madshi for the new release

now frame skipping will not make mpc stuck for 2-3 sec

but when using frame skipping (many frames together) the image don't move until i remove my finger from the skipping key

[madshi]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

Weird thing:
After some time I'm getting framedrops when I play this video:
http://www.oc-burner.de/ftp/Videos/j...dertest_60.mp4

Display is at 60.02 Hz, so it is higher than video fps.
Any idea why framedrops do occur?
Already played around with buffer sizes etc.

What does the madVR OSD say in the moment when the frame drops occur? If possible, make a screenshot of the OSD in that moment.

Originally Posted by Jong

Playing a R1 DVD (same soft telecined DVD as earlier) @50Hz using MC I get a reported clock deviation of 0%, but very few drop/repeated frames (none in a few minutes). The "x repeat frames every.." line is completely missing from the OSD. Does this make sense? If I play a 24p mkv I get >4% clock deviation, which is more what I would expect. But with no clock deviation and such a big frame rate/refresh rate difference shouldn't we be seeing frames repeated like crazy? And where has the "x repeat frames every" line gone?

IIRC, the "x repeat frames every" line only appears if movie framerate and display refresh rate are reasonably close. The DVD is 60i in its original form and the refresh rate is anything even remotely close to 60i, so that's why the "x repeat frames every" line is not showing. I don't understand the clock deviation behaviour, though. When playing 24p, it makes sense that it's around 4% because 24p -> 25p is a bit more than 4% difference. But in the first case you said clock deviation was at 0%. That doesn't make sense if the source is 60i and the refresh rate is 50Hz. Also in that case it doesn't make sense that you saw repeated frames in the OSD. You should not have.

Originally Posted by Dodgexander

Examples of the ghosting images you get on a second screen in exclusive mode.

I don't think this is madVR's fault. madVR might make this problem appear, but I think it's actually a bug in the OS or in the GPU drivers. Maybe I can work around it, but currently I can't reproduce it. Maybe some time in the future.

Originally Posted by Niyawa

It's not really a bug. You mentioned it here and here.

v0.85.8 should at least make madVR behave similar to other renderers, when using IVTC with a 60Hz display mode. The "final" solution for 24fps @ 60Hz is still some time away. But other renderers don't have a real solution for this right now, either.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by yahyoh

but when using frame skipping (many frames together) the image don't move until i remove my finger from the skipping key

You mean you keep the frame skipping key pressed? This works for me, the video visually plays when I do that on my PC with MPC-HC.