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3rd January 2012, 12:14 | #11761 | Link | |
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Arr, I never knew about this feature, any chance to make it as an option on the setting? Last edited by naoan; 3rd January 2012 at 12:46. |
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3rd January 2012, 13:15 | #11762 | Link |
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Re: IVTC on NTSC DVDs. Here's what I've seen:
I have two test scenarios, the first is a simple rip to MKV of a NTSC DVD (older DVD, film): Code:
MediaInfo shows: Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Original display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate : 59.940 fps Original frame rate : 29.970 fps Standard : NTSC Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Compression mode : Lossy Eac3to shows: 1: MPEG2, 480i60 /1.001 (16:9) Code:
MediaInfo shows: Width : 720 pixels Height : 480 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate : 23.976 fps Standard : Component Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Progressive Scan order : 2:3 Pulldown Compression mode : Lossy Eac3to shows: 1: MPEG2, 480p24 /1.001 (16:9) with pulldown flags Playback is smooth, without artifacts, render queue is the only one not full (10-11/16) but no drops or glitches. Using madVR (Libav) for MPEG2 decoding. In CCC, I have both Auto Deint and Pulldown detection "On". |
3rd January 2012, 16:02 | #11763 | Link | |
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When I have used madVR's IVTC, it either works fine, or I get stuttering - when I get stuttering, the OSD usually displays an unknown cadence (or, will fluctuate). Also, whenever I see stuttering, I always test with DScaler and it will show the same symptoms. Most of the time I see stuttering, it's on CBS broadcasts, which e-t172 has said are problematic. I don't know how to tell if a source is properly telecined, so I'll start to collect some more samples when I come across problems. BTW: All of the telecined material I watch is from Windows Media Center 7 recordings (.wtv files). One thing I noticed about those recently: normally I use LAV splitter to play those through mpc-hc, but occasionally I need to use Microsoft's Stream Buffer Source splitter. When Microsoft's splitter is used, I cannot force madvr to switch to 24 or 23Hz. Renaming the files doesn't work - madVR will always switch to 59Hz. I thought that having 23p in the file name was supposed to override what the source splitter says?
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Windows 7 x64 i7 870 16GB RAM AMD 6870 Last edited by robpdotcom; 3rd January 2012 at 16:08. |
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3rd January 2012, 16:19 | #11764 | Link | ||
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madshi
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http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...86#post1546586 And I forced film mode (ivtc) for pure video content 59i (music clip). Sometime madvr detects unknown cadence and sometime it steadily detects 2:2 cadence (like the source is 29p). Last edited by nlnl; 3rd January 2012 at 16:28. |
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3rd January 2012, 17:05 | #11765 | Link |
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Two more hints about IVTC:
(1) For best results you should use a video decoder which properly forwards the telecine flags to madVR. Ideally use LAV Video Decoder or the madVR internal decoders. Do not use CoreAVC or ffdshow (at least not older ffdshow builds, not sure about the latest, it might be fixed there). (2) Playback with 60Hz might not be optimal. If possible at all, try to playback at 24Hz. @nlnl, that's not telecined material. It's some weird field blended stuff. IVTC cannot work for that. @robpdotcom, samples would be great! Refresh rate switching doesn't play nice with IVTC atm. |
3rd January 2012, 19:54 | #11766 | Link | ||
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3rd January 2012, 22:29 | #11767 | Link |
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In the never-ending quest for top notch quality… Are there any ATI users out there who have patched their Radeon cards to accept Firepro firmware in order to be able to output 10 bit color? If so, care to share your experience/comments?
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3rd January 2012, 23:35 | #11768 | Link | |
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@Madshi tried IVTC on some NTSC DVDs so far no problems, no artifacts, stuttering or glitches. ATI CCC video enhancements are OFF and Deinterlacing is set to Auto while pulldown detection is set to ON. Anything I should be looking for? NB also a few pages back. I kinda requested a CPU/GPU percentage in OSD ONLY if its possible.
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4th January 2012, 01:54 | #11770 | Link | ||
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With the NTSC disc I tried, it's constantly dropping a large number of frames and playback is far from smooth. (so it's not just that it's counting the repeated frames that were dropped) It does seem to have issues with PAL discs that I've tried. The Sweet Hereafter seems to be a good test for deinterlacers, as it now seems to mostly work correctly at 24Hz with IVTC, detecting the 2:2 cadence and having mostly smooth playback (previously all madVR deinterlacing at 24Hz was terrible) but at some points it changes to odd cadences such as 5:3:4:4, and there are still dropped frames every few minutes even when it sticks to 2:2. (but not constantly increasing) It's only using about 10% CPU on my system, so that doesn't seem to be it. I also have some anime content which frankly, I don't know if it's supposed to be video/film (I would assume film) but it doesn't seem to be able to figure out the cadence (it does sometimes jump to 2:2 and 4:4 briefly) and I've not been able to get good playback with it no matter what deinterlacers I've tried. When playing back at 50Hz without IVTC enabled, it looks a whole lot better, but then I have PAL speed-up. I get the feeling this would be a lot easier if my TV supported 48Hz from the PC. Samples Would it be possible to add an explicit 2:2 mode, or does that seem redundant? Quote:
What decoder are you using? I've only ever seen DVDs played back as 29.97 or 25fps. Most films that are "29.97" are 23.98 with repeated frames (3:2) but you need something to perform IVTC to actually drop the repeated frames and play correctly. |
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4th January 2012, 02:14 | #11772 | Link | |
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Now that I own a few television series (The Kingdom, Riget, The Office UK) I see that my GT 240 drops frames likes crazy. It's a 29.97 thing I noticed. Now when I playback 29.97 content I switch to yadif and disable deinterlacing in madvr. Last edited by JarrettH; 4th January 2012 at 03:39. |
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4th January 2012, 05:55 | #11774 | Link |
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i have an older 256mb redeon 4570 card in other laptop & it can't play those 2 files smoothly in full screen on a full HD screen.according to notebookcheck graphics card ranking 4570 is more powerful than 3430 so could you please post your madvr settings & catalyst driver version you are using.
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4th January 2012, 07:44 | #11775 | Link | ||
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PAL is usually speed up from 24p, its not telecined (only very rarely, and its questionable if madVR would manage to find a 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 cadence). IVTC will not help you to play these files/discs at 24p, only ReClock would. In general however, PAL also uses Telecine, specifically to convert 25p progressive to 50i, a 2:2 cadence. IMHO, thats however of little importance for playback as a deinterlaced 50p stream also looks just fine.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 4th January 2012 at 08:13. |
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4th January 2012, 08:04 | #11776 | Link |
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@nevcairiel,i have an asus laptop with optimus & GT540M.it came with driver 268.56.the nvidia control panel only has 2 settings under video--video color & image.in video color settings color,gamma & advanced(limited & full dynamic range)are all set to video player settings & only way i can select between dynamic & full range is if i select color adjustment with nvidia setting instead of video player.in madvr i use 0-255 when watching on laptop screen & 16-235 when watching on LG HD TV connected through hdmi.is this correct or should i install graphics driver from nvidia.
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4th January 2012, 08:15 | #11777 | Link |
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@ikarad, please don't quote old posts of yourself. I always reply to every post, when I find the time for that. I'm not in that mode right now. Just trying to push IVTC tests atm.
@JarrettH, DVDs are often not reliable in their encoding. Sometimes they're encoded as 23.976 with telecine flags, sometimes they're encoded as an 29.940 interlaced stream, but rarely for the whole runtime of the movie. They often switch between soft- and hard-telecine. For that you need IVTC with decimation, if you want to play at 24Hz. @6233638, it's supposed to work with any film content, including PAL and Anime. Anime content very often switches cadences from one scene to the next, or even from one movement section to another. E.g. camera pans are often 3:2, but if the camera doesn't move, you often have 5:5 or 8:7 or other cadences. It is not a sign of something going wrong if madVR switches cadences all the time, with Anime content. That said, most PAL Anime content is field blended and can't be IVTCed properly. Please only test with NTSC Anime content for now. As many samples as possible for problematic PAL non-Anime movie discs would be *much* appreciated. @dukey, the term "IVTC" is usually used if you do cadence detection on film sources and then weave the correct fields together, instead of using some kind of video mode deinterlacing algorithm. And that is exactly what madVR does, for NTSC sources *and* for PAL and Anime sources, too. Of course for PAL sources madVR doesn't decimate, but it just does cadence detection, bad edit detection and weaving. @nevcairiel, do you have a 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 sample? I'm pretty sure that the madVR algorithm would be potentially able to identify such a cadence, too. It just doesn't look for cadences that long atm. |
4th January 2012, 08:28 | #11778 | Link | |
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I can dig a bit, but sadly its not as simple as looking at the mediainfo of such a disc.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders |
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4th January 2012, 08:42 | #11779 | Link |
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madshi, I can't get IVTC to work when I disable deinterlacing in madVR's settings either. With deinterlacing on, and manually turning on IVTC everything seems fine but MPC-HC reports a framerate of ~29.97. Using DScaler mod it'll report the correct FPS at ~23.976. Is there a reason why deinterlacing must be on for IVTC to work?
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4th January 2012, 09:05 | #11780 | Link |
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@nevcairiel, I'll just add support for such long cadences "blindly", then maybe a madVR user will find and provide a sample.
@FlashGordon, interlaced content handling is a very complex thing. There is telecined movie content, native video content, anime content and mixed content. Ideally, a deinterlacer should automatically detect the content type and apply the correct algorithm (either "IVTC" or "video mode deinterlacing"), and that even per pixel. There needs to be a term which describes the "interlaced -> progressive" conversion for all types of material, and madVR will be using the term "deinterlacing" for that. So basically "IVTC" is a sub-category of "deinterlacing". And "video mode deinterlacing" is also a sub-category of "deinterlacing". This means that first of all you need to tell madVR that a conversion from interlaced -> progressive is needed. Then in the next step someone (either madVR or you) needs to decide which algorithm to use for that (either "IVTC" or "video mode deinterlacing"). Consequently you first need to enable "deinterlacing". That just means you want madVR to convert interlaced material (film or video) into progressive material. In the future, hopefully madVR will be able to automatically make all these decisions on its own. For now you need to help by manually choosing what you want/need. |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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