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Old 2nd February 2012, 22:23   #1  |  Link
bellboy
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Editing VOBSUB subs and keeping quality?

Hi everyone. I'm a longtime lurker that finally decided to join so I can share info and post.

I'm pretty much a novice when it comes to subs, but I know what I need to tweak my collection of films that have subs in them. Which brings me to my questions...this is something that all kinds of searching has delivered little or no info on.

This is what I want to accomplish: combine the content/timecodes from a SRT file with the ripped VOBSUB bitmap subs from a blu-ray movie. The movie in question is 'The Godfather'. As some of you may know, there are SRT files out there that translate what is said in pivotal conversations in the film that, for whatever reasons Coppola had, were not subtitled in the theatrical release (including the home video releases). One major scene that has no subs is the conversation in Louis' Restaurant right before Michael kills Sollozzo and the police captain.

I've searched for tools online that seem to offer the functionality, but when tested--don't.

First off, is this possible--and has anyone here done it? I'd like to keep the look of the BR subs and even finding the font to keep the look throughout the film.

Secondly, how difficult would this be? If it takes 3 or 4 apps to do this with goodness knows how many hours; would it even be worth it?

I should say that the reason(s) that I want to use VOBSUBs instead of just using the SRT have to do with my use of the final product. I want to use the final file for my media center that is streaming to my TV. I burn in the subs using Handbrake and the most reliable method that it can use is VOBSUBs. Along with the workflow being set, I also like the look of the BR's bitmapped subs.

Thanks for reading...if there's info here that would help, but I haven't supplied, please ask.

PS: I should go on record here by saying that I'm a Mac user, but I do have Windows 7 available in a virtual machine (Parallels and VMware).

Last edited by bellboy; 3rd February 2012 at 01:07. Reason: additional info
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Old 3rd February 2012, 08:01   #2  |  Link
Ghitulescu
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maestrosbt or https://sites.google.com/site/dvdsuptools/
lot of work though ...

EDIT: It seems that this is also possible to do with SubtitleCreator but I never managed to do it.
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Last edited by Ghitulescu; 3rd February 2012 at 08:12.
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Old 3rd February 2012, 10:43   #3  |  Link
TheSkiller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellboy View Post
I should say that the reason(s) that I want to use VOBSUBs instead of just using the SRT have to do with my use of the final product. I want to use the final file for my media center that is streaming to my TV. I burn in the subs using Handbrake and the most reliable method that it can use is VOBSUBs. Along with the workflow being set, I also like the look of the BR's bitmapped subs.
Honestly I don't know how to keep the original vobsubs while adding your own new ones. And even if it's possible it's probably, as you've suspected, a lot of work.

But what about taking that SRT you have (it contains everything the original BD subs had + stuff that's missing on the BD subs, right?) and turn that SRT into a really nice new Vobsub. If you do this you have total control about the look of the subtitles, you can make them look like the original ones if you use the same font and size, you just have to fiddle it out a bit.

If that SRT contains only those additional subtitles then you would first have to merge it with the OCR'ed* subtitles of your BD and then convert this SRT where everything's present to Vobsub.

* Optical Character Recognition, process of converting graphical subtitles to text


I'd suggest to use avs2bdnxml to convert SRT to Vobsub – more precisely you would first import your final SRT in Aegisub to tweak the look of the subtitles and save it in ASS format. Via AviSynth avs2bdnxml then converts it to a bunch of bitmaps + XML file.
As a last step you would use BDSuptoSub to convert that stuff to Vobsub (sub + idx) finally.
Alternatively you could use easySUP/goSUP which does all that in a one-step operation and with a GUI.

Last edited by TheSkiller; 3rd February 2012 at 10:54.
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Old 5th February 2012, 04:06   #4  |  Link
bellboy
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Originally Posted by TheSkiller View Post
Honestly I don't know how to keep the original vobsubs while adding your own new ones. And even if it's possible it's probably, as you've suspected, a lot of work.

But what about taking that SRT you have (it contains everything the original BD subs had + stuff that's missing on the BD subs, right?) and turn that SRT into a really nice new Vobsub. If you do this you have total control about the look of the subtitles, you can make them look like the original ones if you use the same font and size, you just have to fiddle it out a bit.

If that SRT contains only those additional subtitles then you would first have to merge it with the OCR'ed* subtitles of your BD and then convert this SRT where everything's present to Vobsub.

* Optical Character Recognition, process of converting graphical subtitles to text


I'd suggest to use avs2bdnxml to convert SRT to Vobsub – more precisely you would first import your final SRT in Aegisub to tweak the look of the subtitles and save it in ASS format. Via AviSynth avs2bdnxml then converts it to a bunch of bitmaps + XML file.
As a last step you would use BDSuptoSub to convert that stuff to Vobsub (sub + idx) finally.
Alternatively you could use easySUP/goSUP which does all that in a one-step operation and with a GUI.
Thanks for this info...at least that gives me a sort of workflow to go on. I'm on a Mac, so I'm guessing all of these are Windows-only?

The SRT file I have does cover the entire film's sub track, so I can go the conversion route to bitmaps and work from there I guess.

So let me repeat here what I think you're saying just so I have it straight and in the right order...

1.) Import the SRT into Aegisub (Mac OS version) and export to ASS format
2.) Take the ASS file and covert it to bitmaps/XML using AviSynth (Windows only?)
3.) Use BDSuptoSub (or easySUP/goSUB) to convert that output into IDX/SUB files
4.) Use the IDX/SUB files in my regular workflows with MKVtoolnix and Handbrake

Sound about right?

Also does anyone know what the font face is that they use for the Godfather subs in the BR version? It's not the free "Godfather" fonts that are out on the 'net. The font appears to be ITC Quorum Book from what searching I could do on the 'net. Can anyone validate that assumption?
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Old 5th February 2012, 07:50   #5  |  Link
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Converting PGS subs into SRT/TEXT and then back to PGS not only that destroys the formatting (mainly the font and appearance) but also drives you to hell correcting the OCR-errors (L into I, rn into m and so on and vice-versa).
Read the instructions of SC and see how can you insert your own SRT lines into the existing PGS ones.
Or use the other SW I mentioned, and you can afford (for a few lines, of course) COPY/PASTE in any graphic editor - this way you keep both the formatting and the appearance.
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Old 5th February 2012, 07:58   #6  |  Link
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The problem usually is with positioning. On TV shows you have a lot of credits over the first minutes so that all subs are positioned above them. Dunno if this is the case with the Godfather if so you have lost this info when using the SRT you have. In that case you'd have to mix the initial higher positioned subs from the original with your srt. Is it really worth the effort?
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Old 5th February 2012, 17:20   #7  |  Link
TheSkiller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellboy View Post
I'm on a Mac, so I'm guessing all of these are Windows-only?
Pretty much yes I guess...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bellboy View Post
1.) Import the SRT into Aegisub (Mac OS version) and export to ASS format
2.) Take the ASS file and covert it to bitmaps/XML using AviSynth (Windows only?)
3.) Use BDSuptoSub (or easySUP/goSUB) to convert that output into IDX/SUB files
4.) Use the IDX/SUB files in my regular workflows with MKVtoolnix and Handbrake
Sounds about right yes, easySUP/goSUB would do steps 2) and 3) together. The actual conversion to bitmaps is done by avs2bdnxml (even if you use easySUP/goSUB) which needs the input ASS file to be "drawn" and served by AviSynth. Whatever you do, these tools require AviSynth to be installed, so it won't work on a Mac...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
Converting PGS subs into SRT/TEXT and then back to PGS not only that destroys the formatting (mainly the font and appearance) but also drives you to hell correcting the OCR-errors (L into I, rn into m and so on and vice-versa).
True but we don't know whether all these possible problems are absent in the SRT he got or not. If the SRT is fine in that regard there is no reason not to start from there.
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Old 6th February 2012, 18:07   #8  |  Link
bellboy
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Originally Posted by TheSkiller View Post
Sounds about right yes, easySUP/goSUB would do steps 2) and 3) together. The actual conversion to bitmaps is done by avs2bdnxml (even if you use easySUP/goSUB) which needs the input ASS file to be "drawn" and served by AviSynth. Whatever you do, these tools require AviSynth to be installed, so it won't work on a Mac...
Thank you TheSkiller for the information. Tried easySUP instead of trying to work through the command line stuff for AviSynth and it worked really well. The only problem I had was getting the font sizing correct and tweaking some of the timings of the SRT--which was more for my benefit to tighten things up. In easySUP, I had to make the fonts so big that they nearly took up the preview window--this translated to normal size on my 1080 screen res. Oh and since I was using Parallels, technically I was still able to use my Mac.

Since the Mac version of Aegisub was still considered to be alpha-ish, I chose to use the Windows version. From there on it was same as usual. After getting a final SUP file, I moved it to the Mac side and used BDSup2Sub and then on to the rest of my established workflow.

I was able to use the correct font and set the desired font attributes, so the subs look almost identical to the blu-ray.

Thanks again for your help!
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Old 6th February 2012, 22:45   #9  |  Link
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Here's what the finished product looks like. The top example is the BR subs, the bottom is the SRT content converted. You can plainly see the main differences: the size and the color.

I could have played around with the size, but this was the third take on the size and it was good enough for me.

The color can't be helped since I fed the sub into Handbrake to burn it into the finished file and HB seems to only poop out cyan for subs (oh well).

The font matched up pretty well. I used an online font matching site and found a free equivalent. So I'm very pleased with the results and I can use this knowledge to do this with other films that have alternate sub tracks out there.

Thanks again for all that helped with comments.

PS: for some reason, I can't figure out the wonderful image upload system here (kept telling me everything is not a valid image)...so use this link to see what I'm talking about: http://web.me.com/rs8092/godfathersubs.jpg
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