madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Werewolfy]

I just tested NGU on 720p anime and I still prefer NNEDI3, it hides aliasing better.
About the new UI I'm quite happy with it, I don't have the impression to be limited in my choices so if it's easier to understand for the newcomers, I'm fine with it.

And thanks to ryrynz, Asmodian and Neo-XP I can clearly see now that chroma has an impact on real life contents. I wasn't aware of that, I used Jinc most of the time without thinking that there was a real better option. So thank you guys!

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by Neo-XP

I have just noticed a weird behavior with the dark halos removal :

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193397

The processed lines are not straight anymore as it creates artifacts all around them. It is very distracting, even more in motion.

Is there room for improvement there @madshi ? Maybe a less aggressive version ?

There are some artifacts too with just the ringing removal, but they are less noticeable :

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193398

In addition, a comparison between madVr's dark halos removal VS FineDehalo (http://avisynth.nl/index.php/FineDehalo) :

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193421

madVR is better at preserving details while FineDehalo is better at cleaning the edges without artifacts.

Maybe you can get the best of both worlds @madshi ?

[CruNcher]

Not really better it blurs it again way to much though their is no perfect way todo it for fixed content you can predict it might work but you never will get without trained AI or at least some metric analysis the results you want and the AI has to analyse even each specific scene and make a guess how the output might look good for your output target.

Also we are still fixating to much to spatial results only wee need to get more actual moving results

Some input surely could be very well predicted Blu-Ray for example and based on this wee could buildup relative low complexity chains which wouldn't kill your resources in 1 second for no reasonable balanced result overall.

But we really need a more convenient way (apart from the MadVR icon in the Systray) to edit and to chose those presets with 1 or 2 clicks and or Keyboard shortcuts cycling through them this will be also most important for making it easier for AVG joes overall.

But this needs overall tighter integration into a player interface and im not sure if Madshi wants this to happen overall but usability wise the Systray idea seems sub optimal for preseting stuff having the windows taskbar all the time open is not really content centric nice todo.

Defining some kind of input quality strategy to work with as a base for the Presets seems to be a good start, Blu-Ray (offline)/ Youtube/Netflix/Vudu/Amazon (online) are very interesting targets because they have some predictability you could buildup on content wise

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by CruNcher

Not really better it adds blur again way to much

Neither is the best.
The good thing is that you can change a lot of variables with FineDehalo, so if you don't like some aspects if it, you can fine-tune it as you wish.
It is under WTFPL licence, so no problem for madshi to use the code

[CruNcher]

I absolutely agree and indeed it has some nice properties in your overall spatial result overall the result could in motion be better indeed you would surely do some nice presets but i wouldn't even say it's better dehaloing in that specific case of yours much better aliasing prevention on edges and overall it doesn't hurt the end result so much after all

But now is the question can't you get a similiar result without it and a different MadVR chaining and maybe then with less overhead at all ?

Ringing seems not really the problem here then Aliasing also the question is does it holdup in motion as well with your 4K target ?

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by CruNcher

But now is the question can't you get a similiar result without it and a different MadVR chaining and maybe then with less overhead at all ?

No, because the ringing and dark halos are unfortunately already in the source, before any processing.

Originally Posted by CruNcher

Ringing seems not really the problem here then Aliasing also the question is does it holdup in motion as well with your 4K target ?

Yes ! And I've made some comparisons (with original included ) in 4K (Original / madVR / FineDehalo) :



And lossless in FHD with 100% zoom :



I used those parameters for FineDehalo (probably not the best, I was just testing) : FineDehalo(thmi=128, thma=128, thlimi=50, thlima=50, contra=1.0).
I disabled the "add grain" enhancement of madVR for the test, to compare them more easily without added randomness.

Clearly, my vote goes to FineDehalo, in still and in motion.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by 70MM

Guys I wonder if someone can offer some help please...
I have thee 1080 card and the JVC X9000 projector. Ive always had horrible banding and none of the banding settings on madvr make any difference at all for me.
Im still only using 1080p for all my ripped BDs and NEEDI3, haven't tested NGU yet.
As I play everything at 60Hz RGB 8bit to avoid the horrible slow sync of the JVC for mixed content, is it possible that 60Hz introduces the banding?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The refresh rate wouldn't introduce any banding. That is the fault of the mastering process of the Blu-ray.

Are you outputting correct RGB levels? Your PC should be set to RGB Full and so should your projector.

[plasma]

I liked to use upscaling refinement such as adaptive sharpen and line thinning but now as I upgraded to a 4k tv it uses way too much performance. Using "image enhancements" does not give similar results, albeit much better perf.

I assume that upscaling refinements uses the upscaled 4k images and then applies to refinements while image refinements does it at the source resolution, whatever it is. Is there any way to apply these refinements at a half upscaled image (aka 1080p) so you get better balance in terms of performance penalty.

[BluesFanUK]

Ever since the new update i'm getting dropped frames on everything I watch.

Using a 980ti and 1440p monitor. 1080p@60fps seems to come off worst. I put all settings even to the lowest settings and still get 40-50ms.

It's unusable for me, and I've an inkling it's something to do with this new combined image upscale feature.

What's strange is despite the ridiculous number of dropped frames in GPU-Z my GPU is using barely 50% of power....

[AntonP]

Hello, which AMD videocard is better for BD playpack on 1080p screen?
R9 Nano or RX480? both overclocked of course
NGU high chroma upscaling + all other cool things on...
AMD was chosen because of no 24p problem (23.971 - nvidia) and rx480 and nano are only short pcb boards (have not much space in htpc case)

[pirlouy]

Originally Posted by BluesFanUK

What's strange is despite the ridiculous number of dropped frames in GPU-Z my GPU is using barely 50% of power....

GPU-Z causes dropped frames. The same for f.lux (default setting).
Try to use Open Hardware Monitor for GPU infos. Way better than GPU-Z IMO thanks to useful graph.

[CruNcher]

Originally Posted by Neo-XP

No, because the ringing and dark halos are unfortunately already in the source, before any processing.



Yes ! And I've made some comparisons (with original included ) in 4K (Original / madVR / FineDehalo) :



And lossless in FHD with 100% zoom :



I used those parameters for FineDehalo (probably not the best, I was just testing) : FineDehalo(thmi=128, thma=128, thlimi=50, thlima=50, contra=1.0).
I disabled the "add grain" enhancement of madVR for the test, to compare them more easily without added randomness.

Clearly, my vote goes to FineDehalo, in still and in motion.

you should have made the cut higher above the hairdresser hat the top part was also problematic

[BluesFanUK]

Originally Posted by pirlouy

GPU-Z causes dropped frames. The same for f.lux (default setting).
Try to use Open Hardware Monitor for GPU infos. Way better than GPU-Z IMO thanks to useful graph.

GPU-Z is not the culprit. It's the combined image doubling function. Anything above 30fps and it becomes a complete mess.

[Gagorian]

Originally Posted by BluesFanUK

GPU-Z is not the culprit. It's the combined image doubling function. Anything above 30fps and it becomes a complete mess.

I haven't heard of anyone with your problem after the update so I would not blame the change in madVR options menu. Have you set your GPU for maximum power when running your media player from the NVIDIA control panel? NVIDIA drivers do not handle power mangement properly in optimized mode.

[BluesFanUK]

Originally Posted by Gagorian

I haven't heard of anyone with your problem after the update so I would not blame the change in madVR options menu. Have you set your GPU for maximum power when running your media player from the NVIDIA control panel? NVIDIA drivers do not handle power mangement properly in optimized mode.

Nowt wrong with my card.It was all working dandy till I got the latest update. The 980ti is a powerful GPU, but for anything above 30fps it cannot handle many cranked up settings.

Average frame time is 16ms @ around >30fps, with the new update i've tried to scale everything back to how it was and it's still dropping frames.

Settings atm for 1080 >30fps

Super XBR 125 SR1
SSIM 1D 100%
Jinc AR
No refinement

It's now rendering at 30ms and dropping frames. I've ditched MadVR for the time being otherwise it's going to kill my card.

[BluesFanUK]

Right I think i've narrowed down what the problem was. I installed a much older version and reset everything to default, slowly going through each setting. The artifact removal 'reduce ringing artifacts' had no baring on my older config, now it adds a good 10ms when watching anything over 30fps.

I've unticked it and it seems to have done the trick... for now anyway.

[flashmozzg]

Hello, I've enabled NGU-med for both chroma and luma upscaling and noticed that with "let madVR decide" option for alg after NGU it chose Bicuber AR 60. Is it really good or should I choose another? Also, I have R9 290 and it only takes 5ms avg to render 10bit 4:2:0 480p at 1080p with NGU-med. Nice!

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by BluesFanUK

It's now rendering at 30ms and dropping frames. I've ditched MadVR for the time being otherwise it's going to kill my card.

I am not sure what the "kill my card" is about but in their newer drivers Nvidia changed the default power management mode from "adaptive" to "optimal power". Optimal power clocks too low for madVR though so you need to change back to adaptive, after I do this I don't get any dropped frames with the newest madVR at ~85% GPU usage.

Edit:

Originally Posted by BluesFanUK

Right I think i've narrowed down what the problem was. I installed a much older version and reset everything to default, slowly going through each setting. The artifact removal 'reduce ringing artifacts' had no baring on my older config, now it adds a good 10ms when watching anything over 30fps.

I've unticked it and it seems to have done the trick... for now anyway.

How odd, though I don't use reduce ringing artifacts normally it only adds ~2.3ms on my system. I don't think the Titan X (pascal) is 4x faster than the 980Ti.

Originally Posted by flashmozzg

Hello, I've enabled NGU-med for both chroma and luma upscaling and noticed that with "let madVR decide" option for alg after NGU it chose Bicuber AR 60. Is it really good or should I choose another? Also, I have R9 290 and it only takes 5ms avg to render 10bit 4:2:0 480p at 1080p with NGU-med. Nice!

Can you use NGU-high for luma? I really do recommend leaving everything on "let madVR decide" and picking the highest luma option you can. Once you have maxed out luma you can start turning up the other settings a little, if you still have performance available.

Edit2:
The point of "let madVR decide" is to use reasonable options given the performance the choice for luma implies. Anything below NGU-veryHigh uses Bicubic60 AR for chroma doubling, which is a very reasonable option for chroma doubling.

[BluesFanUK]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I am not sure what the "kill my card" is about but in their newer drivers Nvidia changed the default power management mode from "adaptive" to "optimal power". Optimal power clocks too low for madVR though so you need to change back to adaptive, after I do this I don't get any dropped frames with the newest madVR at ~85% GPU usage.

Edit:


How odd, though I don't use reduce ringing artifacts normally it only adds ~2.3ms on my system. I don't think the Titan X (pascal) is 4x faster than the 980Ti.



Can you use NGU-high for luma? I really do recommend leaving everything on "let madVR decide" and picking the highest luma option you can. Once you have maxed out luma you can start turning up the other settings a little, if you still have performance available.

That's weird. I checked this setting before I had a moan here and changed it to Adaptive, then got a weird buzzing sound from my GPU when I started testing videos.

I'll guess it was just overheating at the time or something.

Anyway, i'm back to default settings working my way back to my original settings, and i'm getting a huge number of dropped frames when I open videos again and fast forwards/rewind (but they aren't dropping as the video plays thankfully). I thought I elminated this issue a year back.

I've stopped it opening in Full Exclusive mode, enbabled Windows Overlay and User Separate Device for presentation but the issue persists. Any ideas?

[Asmodian]

It is supposed to drop frames on open or seek, that is normal. You can reduce the number with the rendering -> general settings option "Delay playback start until render queue is full". The frames dropped on playback or seek probably aren't important though, I prefer faster response times without that setting even though it drops a lot of frames during open/seeks.