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6th June 2011, 21:18 | #8001 | Link | |
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I use the interlaced settings with my PDP and I set up my friend's LCD with the progressive (72Hz) settings right now. It works well with BD cinema movies, US and EU TV Shows. What else would you play? Am I missing any usual materials? Because I think you shouldn't over-complicate the automatized mechanisms thinking about the "once in a year" situations. |
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6th June 2011, 21:25 | #8002 | Link | |
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If that format would be supported by ffdshow, the MPC-HC decoders and mine, there would already be pretty good coverage. PS: This is not a hack, its actually a proper solution.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders |
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6th June 2011, 21:47 | #8004 | Link | |
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I already use those options you listed (instead of 1080i50 I got 1080p50), but the problem is that there is no option to change to 1080p59 for 59p video. If I add 1080p59 to the list, then it works, but then my 59i videos also change refresh to that rate. It's not a simple matter of where to do the deinterlacing, it's that Pioneer displays do IVTC only up to 1080i, not 1080p. So, if there's 24p content encoded in 59i, the 59i will change the rate to 59p and I'd lose IVTC from my display. If my refresh rate stays at 59i for that content, then IVTC is fine. What I'm asking really should not affect people who don't use 59i, because they would not have 1080i59 in the madVR options. If you have it there, it's cause you wanna use it. Last edited by Andy o; 6th June 2011 at 21:51. |
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6th June 2011, 21:57 | #8005 | Link | ||
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YCbPr encoding/decoding color matrixes: Rec. ITU-R BT.601-5 => SD Rec. ITU-R BT.709-4 => HD Gamuts : - Rec 709: HD primaries (in theory at least) - SMPTE RP 145: SMPTE-C primaries (US/Japan SD/ HD) => used for NTSC and 90% of the Blu-Rays(confirmed by the CEO of the ISF) - EBU Tech. 3213: EBU primaries (Europe SD/HD) => used for PAL/SECAM and european Blu-rays To avoid confusion, it's widely acknowledged to use those terms: - SMPTE-C / EBU / HDTV for gamuts. - REC-601 / REC-709 for color matrixes. I have to admit that I really don't follow what's going on w/ all this in >0.61, but that's no biggy...also, compressed LUT's don't seem to be supported (yet)? So far 0.62 has been dead smooth for me, but the main problem I got w/ >0.49 was getting really random dropped frames from time to time in 89.91/96Hz(0.49 is an unstoppable train when that option -that was removed in >0.49- is checked)...so I could only confirm whether the problem is actually fixed after watching a lot of movies. I still wish that option was back, but well.. You also seem to imply that the new LUT's only accept TV levels? But it's a bit confusing atm...I do feed PC levels to mVR. Anyway, my current main focus is on smoothness....I'll wait for the colorimetry options to become a bit clearer Quote:
Last edited by leeperry; 6th June 2011 at 22:11. |
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6th June 2011, 22:03 | #8006 | Link | |
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Yes, it's a proper solution, but since it's unsupported by the DS ecosystem I consider it a hack. Keep in mind that joe average uses WMP and the like, and W7 already comes with decoders for all the important formats, no need for MPC-HC/ffdshow/LAV in there unfortunately. Getting this widely used would be extremely difficult. |
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6th June 2011, 22:09 | #8007 | Link | |
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People using WMP really don't even notice that the colors are off, tbh. There is only one decoder which can do this high-quality and configurable RGB conversion, and thats ffdshow. So you're already very limited. Other decoders either output a YUV format, or if you force RGB out of them, they do who knows what for the conversion. The whole idea is to simply enable a perfect high-quality playback chain for madVR (and other custom renderes), so if you use madVR, you don't have to rely on a decoder to produce proper RGB, you just use one of the supported decoders, and they provide all relevant information for madVR to do what it was designed for. It'll come sooner or later anyway, at the latest for 3D playback, because the current info headers are not suited for that. The main point is, there is nothing to lose, only to gain. If you prefer ffdshow doing the RGB conversion, sure, why not. But if you use ffdshow anyway, could as well let it supply the information to madVR to do it itself. In addition, an option in madVR for "don't touch RGB" for those people that want it shouldn't be that bad to add.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 6th June 2011 at 22:29. |
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6th June 2011, 22:26 | #8008 | Link | |
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6th June 2011, 22:32 | #8009 | Link | |
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I'm not sure i actually have a european Blu-ray to check this, sure i have european releases, but most are US movies .. i dont think they remaster the video, do they? :d The Blu-ray spec at least says that you're supposed to use BT.709 primaries. I think it would be quite moronic if they encode movies to look good on their professional super expensive displays, wouldn't they be smart enough to make it look good on a consumer HDTV? Thats what they are mastering it for, afterall. BTW, i rather have some infos from a Tech then a CEO.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 6th June 2011 at 22:49. |
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6th June 2011, 22:32 | #8010 | Link |
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Wow, deep discussions....
You guys mind taking a quick break to answer my question about levels? What should I set the option of levels for MadVR if I'm using Lav Splitter, Lav Cuvid, ffdshow raw processor [sharpen] (output=YV12), to MadVR? Should I select TV or PC levels? How do I check to see if the levels are compressed/expanded? My video card is a Nvidia and the Nvidia Control Panel setting is set to output RGB. TV is a Sony LCD connected via HDMI. |
6th June 2011, 22:39 | #8011 | Link | |
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I have the KDL-40EX500 series from Sony and I find the TV Levels set in madVR better FOR THIS PARTICULAR PANEL. 0-255 gives me too much B/W contrasty picture - black is too black and white is too white. Just watch some movies with both modes and then you will surely see / decide. Pluto
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6th June 2011, 22:46 | #8012 | Link |
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can someone help a noob
i have a few ripped blurays in bdmv folders that a currently play with TMT which uses hardware acceleration can i play just the m2ts with MadVR and MPC-HC? i have a dual core 2.7 but the cpu goes to max and it wont play thanks |
6th June 2011, 22:48 | #8013 | Link |
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Why not just play the BDMV folder itself? Open the index.bdmv file with MPC-HC. But you will need to give us more information. What video decoder are you using? What splitter?
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6th June 2011, 22:52 | #8014 | Link | |
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6th June 2011, 23:03 | #8015 | Link |
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Yes, it's the simplest way if the whole movie is contained by a single m2ts file. But some DBs split the movie into many m2ts files to offer you different versions (Theatrical Cut, Director's cut, Unrated, Extended, etc) on the same disk. In this case you need to open the correct playlist file (from the playlist folder).
I don't know if there is a more objective way for that but I usually open the one with the longest runtime. ---- @n3w813 And what is the correct choice if your display device has limited and full range settings too but the physical precision of the display is unknown or known as significantly lower than 8-bit without internal dithering (like every PDP and many LCDs). I guess it's the full range but simply because it contains more data. Otherwise, it could be the limited if your display handles the full range input but it compresses it back to limited range during the internal processing (which is hard to tell if it happens with high precision because you probably need to count the gray shades manually on a gradient ). I think 10-bit output would make this dilemma much less significant. An example: 8-bit gradient test videos look smooth without dithering and limited range output, full range output looks horrible without dithering but it's smooth with dithering. However, you can't always trust in dithering. A special case when your display applies "undefeatable" noise reduction algorithms which can partially filter out the dithering noise too (some and not only a few HDTVs). And another example (which could be combined with the previous one) when the display already works with heavy dithering (every PDPs, but some of them is really noisy and use an awfully simple noise patter. -> even the expensive models, like some Panasonic PDPs -> that's why I prefer the Samsung PDPs with much finer dithering noise which really works for my eyes, not like the Panasonic joke but some people would probably argue with me about this, and this is not that topic...). ---- @madshi Did you think about the possibility to somehow output YCC 4:2:2 for HDTVs? JanWillem says he has some ideas to make it possible, so I think it's theoretically possible... (Did you even read my arguments why would it be "essential" for many HDTV owners (probably many HTPC users) even if they doesn't really know/care(yet) about it?) Last edited by janos666; 6th June 2011 at 23:27. |
6th June 2011, 23:11 | #8016 | Link | |||
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You can detect the decoding matrix(601/709) if it was added to video stream headers, but no can do about the gamut being used during mastering. Ideally(and I made this feature request to madshi a while back), we'd need some automatic rules like: -23.976: SMPTE-C(that you could always change to EBU using a hotkey if it was mastered in Europe) -25: EBU(it could also be HDTV, so you could always swap it if need be) -29.97: SMPTE-C(it's most likely SD VIDEO NTSC, but it could also be HDTV if it's HD) You'll find some food for thoughts in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1038602 Quote:
The CEO of the french ISF used to keep a BD list on his website as to whether you should use EBU or SMPTE-C..but it basically boiled down to: mastered in the US: SMPTE-C / mastered in Europe: EBU. The ISF takes care of the (free) calibration worldwide on those high-end Samsung DLP projectors(that were blessed by Joe Kane). You even get direct access buttons on their remote to map gamuts on the fly, goodness gracious! Some mastering houses are said to use a 3DLUT at the very very last stage to map SMPTE-C to HDTV....but IRL, most bluray's don't go through this stage apparently. All I can say is that IME european BD's look washed out in SMPTE-C(the smallest gamut ever) and US/JAP BD's look oversaturated in EBU/HDTV...I'd even dare saying that using the right gamut seems to increase the subjective CR, because the colors are simply as accurate as the mastering engineer saw them...they don't "overlap" each other anymore, so to speak Another testimonial of gamut mapping goodness: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...4&postcount=90 Quote:
It's like Reclock, once you've seen the light...you're doomed This said, I'm very pleased to see that mVR is finally diving into the colorimetry nitty gritty Last edited by leeperry; 6th June 2011 at 23:54. |
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6th June 2011, 23:12 | #8017 | Link |
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Calibration of the TV is a must. But when feeding the LCD with video, one thing is for sure the main culprit - avoiding crushed blacks and whites. In my ATI settings I have RGB full ( 4:4:4 ) and madVR is set it to TV levels. If you manage to calibrate your SONY to accept PC levels and keep the picture detailed and without B/W being crushed, than you can of course use the PC levels. I have not managed that, other would say - the settings would have to be very extreme to believe it is correct.
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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