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Old 12th August 2017, 10:13   #44641  |  Link
Siso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
time to move to the next guide or better your eyes.

super XBr 150 is a fine chroma scaler but for luma i would not use 150.

bilateral sharp and reconstruction sharp are very sharp chroma scaler i highly doubt any other image scaler is as "sharp" even through it is hard to compare but chroma is usually very blurry and a sharp chroma scaler can be a really good choice.
Like NGU AA, NGU Sharp, NGU Standart?

I'm talking about upscaling only, not image doubling.
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:25   #44642  |  Link
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that's more complicated and "image doubling" is "removed" many months ago. just to be clear NGU is a x2 or x4 scaler liek super XBr.

it is not a good idea to use NGU very high on chroma but NGU low on image scaling.

you should always put more processing power to luma than chroma but that has little to nothing todo with sharpness and more about general quality.
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:30   #44643  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
that's more complicated and "image doubling" is "removed" many months ago. just to be clear NGU is a x2 or x4 scaler liek super XBr.

it is not a good idea to use NGU very high on chroma but NGU low on image scaling.

you should always put more processing power to luma than chroma but that has little to nothing todo with sharpness and more about general quality.
That's good, my scaling ratio is 1.5 tho, I'm upscaling to 2560x1080p.
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:37   #44644  |  Link
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I think that statement is wise advise to follow, but everyone has their own preferences. Sharper chroma can result in more pop in the picture, some might think this is essentially helping to recreate the vibrancy of lost chroma but I think that is a touch misguided. I prefer the chroma to match the luma's appearance and have settled on NGU AA (anything but VH ideally) as a result which IMO looks quite natural.
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Old 12th August 2017, 14:14   #44645  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I think that statement is wise advise to follow, but everyone has their own preferences. Sharper chroma can result in more pop in the picture, some might think this is essentially helping to recreate the vibrancy of lost chroma but I think that is a touch misguided. I prefer the chroma to match the luma's appearance and have settled on NGU AA (anything but VH ideally) as a result which IMO looks quite natural.
I kinda like NGU-AA too, will make some tests.
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Old 12th August 2017, 15:07   #44646  |  Link
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Im on the Limit with my GTX 950 2GB.. it uses around 1500-1800MB VRAM -.-

maybe i better switch to 1050TI with 4GB..
What system platform are you using?
VRAM can definitely be limiting with 4K, but I have a 1050 Ti and I also have issues like you do with DXVA CB or CUVID with 4K, it's barely reaching 40 fps compared to 180 with DXVA Native. The PCI Express interface utilization never goes above 15% so that's not the problem, NVIDIA power profile doesn't change anything either even when set to Prefer High Performance.
I guess it's my platform that is limiting the bandwidth between system RAM and graphics card (Core 2 with DDR2)
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Old 12th August 2017, 21:32   #44647  |  Link
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@madshi
If automating custom resolution creation and optimization is possible, why not doing the same for everything else with a global "let madVR decide" based on the current GPU specs and if it's on battery or not for laptops?

Last edited by sauma144; 12th August 2017 at 21:48.
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Old 12th August 2017, 23:21   #44648  |  Link
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This is not the kind of option you can enable that easily. For most users, the best option is to use native resolution (60Hz) with smooth motion enabled (it is not enabled by default because it has certain cost on GPU ressources).
Using 24Hz depends on the display panel. madVR would have to have a database of all screens ID to choose for users: it is impossible.
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Old 13th August 2017, 20:32   #44649  |  Link
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I think a more realistic way to implement this, while still somewhat crazy, is to have a complete performance <-> quality sequence for every performance v.s. quality option. Watch the rendering times and move down the list until Xms below the frame time, then save those settings for that frame rate and resolution until the user triggers "re-tune" or something.

I would argue the this is not worth doing until madVR is feature complete, making and maintaining that list is more work the more madVR changes. However, I am sure it would be a lot of fun to discuss the ordering of that list. Is there a different list for different GPUs due to differences in the the relative performance impact of each option?

Also, you still have to leave smooth motion and refresh rate up to the user.
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Old 13th August 2017, 20:36   #44650  |  Link
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This should be part of a "proper" installer, not really inside madVR.
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Old 13th August 2017, 21:44   #44651  |  Link
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Is it still the weekend in Germany? No new madVR build.
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Old 13th August 2017, 21:47   #44652  |  Link
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Sorry, I need a bit longer, had a busy week. Maybe in 1-3 days, or maybe next weekend, don't know for sure.
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Old 13th August 2017, 21:51   #44653  |  Link
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What's wrong? Is it about custom resolutions?
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Old 13th August 2017, 22:10   #44654  |  Link
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Just be patient and let him work. Every minute he responds to you is a minute less he has to spend on madVR awesomeness.
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Old 13th August 2017, 22:20   #44655  |  Link
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Old 14th August 2017, 01:40   #44656  |  Link
70MM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
bilateral sharp and reconstruction sharp are very sharp chroma scaler i highly doubt any other image scaler is as "sharp" even through it is hard to compare but chroma is usually very blurry and a sharp chroma scaler can be a really good choice.
Huhn it sounds like you prefer bilateral sharp or reconstruction sharp, stating they maybe the two best for chroma upscaling... my question is.

Im currently using Nnedi 128 for chroma and NGU sharp High for luma on a very large 145" diag. screen with the JVC X9500. My render times are 19.80ms for BDs upscaling everything to 4K, using the 1080Ti card.

Someone else said that bilateral sharp or reconstruction sharp probably give the most pop when used for chroma upscaling, I like that idea. Im going to try them out but I dont understand what the different settings do...

e.g. Reconstruction has soft, sharp, placebo, sharp AR, placebo AR, which do you think is better to use in this case?

Which one do you prefer bilateral sharp or reconstruction sharp?

Many thanks...
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Old 14th August 2017, 02:14   #44657  |  Link
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Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
Im currently using Nnedi 128 for chroma
Waste of processing power imo. Switch to 64 neurons or NGU AA. High setting is best bang for buck.
Have you compared chroma upscalers at all?

Last edited by ryrynz; 14th August 2017 at 02:16.
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Old 14th August 2017, 04:00   #44658  |  Link
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ryrynz, Is NGU sharp is used for chroma upscaling, is it as sharp or as good as bilateral sharp or reconstruction sharp for chroma upscaling?
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Old 14th August 2017, 05:35   #44659  |  Link
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Not a fan of either of those for chroma, what determines if they're good to me is how natural they look and how balanced the colors are. I could tell you which out of those three I prefer, that's about it.. Without looking into it right now I'm guessing my preference would be NGU Sharp.

NGU sharp (Luma) looks good on Adywan's recent ESB release BTW.
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Old 14th August 2017, 07:19   #44660  |  Link
70MM
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post


NGU sharp (Luma) looks good on Adywan's recent ESB release BTW.
I cant understand why, but Im getting lots of repeated frames when I use any NGU settings for chroma upscaling, even the lowest. Luma is set to NGU sharp high.

If I use Nnedi 128 for chroma I get no repeated frames and rendering is approx 20ms.

I also get repeated frames with bilateral sharp or reconstruction sharp for chroma upscaling. The only one I can use without repeated frames is Nnedi 128, I wonder whats wrong...? My card is 1080Ti and upscaling everything to 4K.

Last edited by 70MM; 14th August 2017 at 07:21.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, upsampling

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