Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 3rd March 2012, 22:46   #12441  |  Link
shaolin95
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 293
Excellent. I thought I may have been missing something by not using Exclusive.
The time I tried CPU decoding it was running super slow ..not sure why.
Thanks a ton..this rocks!
shaolin95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2012, 22:50   #12442  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
Exclusive mode is mainly meant to fix problems (e.g. tearing, or frame drops) some people have with fullscreen windowed mode. If fullscreen windowed mode works perfectly for you, just be happy and turn exclusive mode off...
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2012, 22:57   #12443  |  Link
shaolin95
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Exclusive mode is mainly meant to fix problems (e.g. tearing, or frame drops) some people have with fullscreen windowed mode. If fullscreen windowed mode works perfectly for you, just be happy and turn exclusive mode off...
Excellent. You saved me money there and this thing just looks brilliant! Cant thank you enough .

Just in case, if I wanted a more powerful Nvidia card just for this, not gaming, do you have any preferences?

Last edited by shaolin95; 3rd March 2012 at 23:30.
shaolin95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2012, 23:25   #12444  |  Link
FlashGordon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
If the MPEG2 track has primaries information in the headers, madVR should be able to detect that. If it doesn't, madVR guesses based on the resolution. Maybe the menu screen is 720x480 and the movie later 720x576? Or maybe the menu screen comes with primaries = SMPTE-C information? I'm not sure from the top of my head whether madVR switches to different primaries if the video stream changes in the middle of the movie. Anyway, what does the madVR OSD say about the primaries? Does it say "best guess" or does it say "says bitstream" or something else? Also check the OSD to see the resolution of the menu screen.
When I open the full DVD, it intros with a logo and then transitions into a menu, all of which is reported at 720x576. The primary and matrix information is a "best guess" and it is guessed to be SMPTE-C. When I play the movie from there it stays the same.

When I open the individual VOB, the primaries and matrix are "says bitstream" and the primaries are EBU.

I'll have the IVTC samples for you by tonight or tomorrow night, I have a few more silent films on DVD that I want to check and see if they have strange cadences
FlashGordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 01:33   #12445  |  Link
sneaker_ger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
(1) Press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D to make sure deinterlacing is turned on.
(2) Press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+T to check whether madVR is in film or video mode.
(3) Double check whether deinterlacing works with other renderers (VMR9, EVR).
All those things were set correctly, but I have found out something different:
The file was incorrectly encoded progressively, but only forcing deinterlacing with Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D did not show any effect. I also had to manually pick a field order. I don't know if this is in any way intended or a bug. The other funny thing: It did not matter whether I chose BFF or TFF, the deinterlacing worked correctly both times. Only in "auto field order" there was combing, i.e. no deinterlacing at all.

I'll probably have to conduct a few more tests before making any definite answer.

Last edited by sneaker_ger; 4th March 2012 at 01:37.
sneaker_ger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 02:22   #12446  |  Link
cyberbeing
Broadband Junkie
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,859
Here is another madVR freeze report, this time of the issue that often causes madVR to hang when changing the subtitle stream from a paused state. (MPC-HC + Haali + vsfilter.dll):
http://www.mediafire.com/?yrsmua81psw1ycv
cyberbeing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 02:41   #12447  |  Link
robpdotcom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Reclock, EVR and MPC don't take "repeat first field" into account. They just count the number of frames that are sent to the renderer. If you have a file which switches multiple times between soft-telecine and hard-telecine (many broadcasts do), Reclock, EVR and MPC will all switch betwen 23Hz/fps and 29Hz/fps, as well, or even show some random value betwen 23 and 29. In contrast madVR properly interprets "repeat first field" and thus it doesn't switch between 23 and 29. Instead madVR always correctly reports 29 with a 3:2 cadence. Which is the correct information.
Thanks for the explanation.

BTW: Here's another telecined sample with TV station animation - I guess they never expect people to IVTC these things

http://www.mediafire.com/?m2o5d6hyz2m9zrz
__________________
Windows 7 x64
i7 870
16GB RAM
AMD 6870
robpdotcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 02:53   #12448  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
A log alone won't help much for a crash. Was the crash in MPC-HC or in madVR? If it was in madVR you should (ideally) have seen the madVR exception box with an option to send a bug report to me. If you just saw the standard windows crash box then the crash was probably in MPC-HC and not in madVR. Without a madVR crash report there's not much I can do about crashes.
It's MPC that crashes (freezes) it happens only in exclusive mode and the flush settings seem to play a part in how regularly it happens so it's likely MadVR related. I'll try some earlier versions of MadVR and MPC and report back.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 09:00   #12449  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolin95 View Post
Just in case, if I wanted a more powerful Nvidia card just for this, not gaming, do you have any preferences?
Yes: Wait for the new 28nm GPUs. ATI's are already out. NVidia's not yet, but coming soonish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashGordon View Post
When I open the full DVD, it intros with a logo and then transitions into a menu, all of which is reported at 720x576. The primary and matrix information is a "best guess" and it is guessed to be SMPTE-C. When I play the movie from there it stays the same.

When I open the individual VOB, the primaries and matrix are "says bitstream" and the primaries are EBU.
Hmmmm... So the bitstream of the real movie contains the necessary information while the menu does not. That kinda makes some sense. However, I'm wondering why the "best guess" is wrong! For 720x576 the best guess should be EBU. What happens if you play the VOB file directly which contains the menu? Do you get SMPTE-C then, too? If so, please upload a small portion of the menu. Otherwise: You could try deleting all the movie VOBs and only keeping the menu VOB, together with all the other DVD helper files, and then send me that? It should be possible to dumb this down to a couple of MBs. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashGordon View Post
I'll have the IVTC samples for you by tonight or tomorrow night, I have a few more silent films on DVD that I want to check and see if they have strange cadences
Great - thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
All those things were set correctly, but I have found out something different:
The file was incorrectly encoded progressively, but only forcing deinterlacing with Ctrl+Alt+Shift+D did not show any effect. I also had to manually pick a field order. I don't know if this is in any way intended or a bug. The other funny thing: It did not matter whether I chose BFF or TFF, the deinterlacing worked correctly both times. Only in "auto field order" there was combing, i.e. no deinterlacing at all.

I'll probably have to conduct a few more tests before making any definite answer.
A sample would be great.

Do you get proper deinterlacing with VMR/EVR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robpdotcom View Post
Thanks for the explanation.

BTW: Here's another telecined sample with TV station animation - I guess they never expect people to IVTC these things

http://www.mediafire.com/?m2o5d6hyz2m9zrz
Thanks. The next build will have a trick up its sleeve to handle things like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
It's MPC that crashes (freezes) it happens only in exclusive mode and the flush settings seem to play a part in how regularly it happens so it's likely MadVR related. I'll try some earlier versions of MadVR and MPC and report back.
A crash is not the same as a freeze. Please be clear in your report. Is it a crash or a freeze? If it's a freeze, you can press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Break to get a madVR freeze report, which you can then send to me or upload somewhere.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 09:25   #12450  |  Link
Andy o
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 962
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Now I'm not sure: Is your previous post still valid?
Sorry, I was confused about the setting, and also about the automatic detection not fully working, as you said. Just disregard that post.
__________________
MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI, Ryzen 5900x, RTX 3070, Win 10-64.
Pioneer VSX-LX503, LG OLED65C9
Andy o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 09:36   #12451  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat357 View Post
I got a complete crash from Potplayer (latest version) in a way that my screen was completely black. I happened when switching to or back from FSE, can't tell for sure what is was.
I couldn't even access the taskman anymore, because after ctrl+alt+del -> taskman gave me again the back screen.
The only way to recover was switching to a different user and kill the Potplayer process from there.

At the moment that the screen turned black, I pressed the magic buttons to create a crash report.
Now here it comes : there were 41 crash-reports on my desktop !
You probably need just the first one I suppose, but to make sure, I'll provide all of them.
(don't worry, all together compressed is still only 15 kB.)

MadVR 0.81 / Nvidia GTX-570 / Win7 x64 SP1 (auto-updates)
Potplayer 1.5.32007 / CPU i7-970 / NVidia driver : v290.33

http://www.mediafire.com/?m5fmjp3a618jdpv

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?m5fmjp3a618jdpv
Hmmmm... No idea why you got so many freeze reports (they're freeze reports, not crash reports). But anyway, they're all pretty much identical. From what I can see, PotPlayer might be involved in the freeze, and unfortunately I don't have any callstack/debug information from PotPlayer. In order to get to the bottom of this freeze, the PotPlayer dev would have to ship debug information with PotPlayer, and then I'd need a new freeze report from a freeze that happened in PotPlayer with debug infos.

I'll talk to the PotPlayer dev, maybe he'll be willing to provide debug information in future versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post
Sorry, I was confused about the setting, and also about the automatic detection not fully working, as you said. Just disregard that post.
So it everything working as expected for you?
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 09:52   #12452  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Here is a Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Break Freeze Report
http://www.mediafire.com/?3tcf239j4hhqa4t

Win7 SP1 x64
ATI 5750 1GB
MPC-HC

Trigger: Loading the next file in a playlist when in fullscreen exclusive mode
That's a weird one. According to the log, the media player is trying to create a Direct3D device, while madVR is trying to destroy its own Direct3D device (in a different thread). Which doesn't make any sense since only madVR is supposed to create Direct3D devices.

Edit: Your freeze report and my interpretation were just confirmed by ryrynz. We found a change in MPC-HC which is reponsible for the freeze and reported the problem to the MPC-HC thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Here is another madVR freeze report, this time of the issue that often causes madVR to hang when changing the subtitle stream from a paused state. (MPC-HC + Haali + vsfilter.dll):
http://www.mediafire.com/?yrsmua81psw1ycv
Hmmmm... It seems that the filter which provides the subtitle switching interface (don't know which it is, maybe vsfilter) is frozen here, pulling madVR with it into a freeze. Doesn't seem to be madVR's fault to me. However, maybe I can work around it, I'll give that a try. Please retest with the next build to confirm whether the problem is gone or not.

Last edited by madshi; 4th March 2012 at 11:06.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 09:58   #12453  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I've just had it freeze with copy to backbuffer set to flush, I have yet to have it freeze however with 'after last render step' set to flush as well.

Freeze report below.

http://www.mediafire.com/?yor8i34dirdisu4
WEIRD! This confirms cyberbeing's first freeze report (see my previous reply to cyberbeing)! It seems that MPC-HC actually tries to create a Direct3D device while madVR is still running. And that somehow freezes the whole process. So the big question is: Why would MPC-HC try to create a Direct3D device if madVR is active?

Is there any MPC-HC dev here? It would help a lot if MPC-HC could be compiled with debug information (more information about that see v0.80 release notes). Then we would maybe know why MPC-HC tries to create a Direct3D devices on its own.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 10:14   #12454  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Found a bug, if Bicubic settings are selected before Softcubic the drop down options still only show the Bicubic settings, it's not till you go to one of the other algorithms then to Softcubic that it displays properly.
Thanks, will be fixed in the next build.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 10:21   #12455  |  Link
agustin9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
WEIRD! This confirms cyberbeing's first freeze report (see my previous reply to cyberbeing)! It seems that MPC-HC actually tries to create a Direct3D device while madVR is still running. And that somehow freezes the whole process. So the big question is: Why would MPC-HC try to create a Direct3D device if madVR is active?
Maybe the D3D Fullscreen MPC option?
agustin9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 10:25   #12456  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Looks like I've found the bug lurking somewhere between builds 3608 and 3627, perhaps it's the one of the changes made in build 3619 or 3623.

I can usually duplicate this on a fresh boot, entering FSE mode with no flushing set on all options, as both Cruncher and I found the 'after copy to backbuffer' option being set to 'don't flush' affecting the chances of MPC crashing.

I'll post about this in the MPC forum also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agustin9 View Post
Maybe the D3D Fullscreen MPC option?
Nope, definitely not.

Last edited by ryrynz; 4th March 2012 at 10:33.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 10:49   #12457  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Looks like I've found the bug lurking somewhere between builds 3608 and 3627, perhaps it's the one of the changes made in build 3619 or 3623.

I can usually duplicate this on a fresh boot, entering FSE mode with no flushing set on all options, as both Cruncher and I found the 'after copy to backbuffer' option being set to 'don't flush' affecting the chances of MPC crashing.
Good find - looks like 3619 to me!

*Please* be exact in your description. You're talking about a crash all the time. It is NOT a crash, it's a freeze. From a developer point of view that's a totally different thing. Talking about crashes when you mean a freeze confuses me, and will likely confuse the MPC-HC devs, too.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 10:57   #12458  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Thanks, I was thinking about this after I saw Cruncher's post and thought it would wise to clarify it as being a freeze in my future posts.

Saw your post, removed mine, it kind of got dwarfed.

Last edited by ryrynz; 4th March 2012 at 11:25.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 11:21   #12459  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat357 View Post
Crash report + complete log-file.

Problem : if MadVR is in FSE mode, it crashes MPC-HC (+itself ?) upon switching to the next/previous file.

I made a playlist from 2 files and let it play in FSE. The first file plays nice, but at the end when opening the second, I end up with a black screen.

Only <ctrl>+<alt>+<del> brings back some live, nothing else works, probably because of FSE.

Happens only in FSE, no problems in maxim. windowed mode.
Happens both when switching is done automatic (playlist) and manual (next file using mouse or keyb.)

Win7 SP1 / Nvidia gtx-570 / latest 295.73 drivers / CPU i7-970
LAV v0.48 / MPC-HC 4111 (also tested with PotP-> same issue)
Things already tried : driver rollback to previous known "good" version 290.36, different vers. MPC, PotPlayer,
all kind of combination for flushing modes FSE, change que-sizes,...)

Crash-report + MadVR log :

http://www.mediafire.com/?g7ty003uxo9k7vj
This is again exactly the same problem reported by cyberbeing and ryrynz. We'll need a new MPC-HC revision to have this fixed.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2012, 11:41   #12460  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by andybkma View Post
with "Present Several Frames In Advance" unchecked (I get better smoother playback this way) the Zoom Player GUI still distorts when coming out of FSE to window mode though not quite as bad as v.80.
It doesn't seem to happen on my PC, unfortunately. For me, ZP behaves identically, when coming out of FSE, regardless of whether "Present Several Frames In Advance" is activated or not. I'm testing on XP, though. Maybe that's the difference? What happens if you deactivate Aero? Does the problem still occur then?
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 17:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.