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Old 23rd August 2011, 12:42   #9441  |  Link
mzso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
So the decoder = CPU is not the problem. The problem seems to be caused by the GPU *sometimes* not being able to render the frames fast enough. The big question is why. Can you try fixing your GPU clocks with a GPU tweak utility? It's possible that your GPU throttles down because it thinks it doesn't need full clock, and then madVR runs into trouble.
So, I watched the GPU clock with GPU-Z and it seemed constant at 796 MHz (don't know why it isn't 800 as shown in catalyst though...) all the time. So I guess it isn't downthrottling.

Could the GPU memory size be a problem? Or what else?

Its also suspicious to me that the GPU usage graph (in process explorer) never goes above ~15% if the GPU would lack the power wouldn't it be much higher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
No tearing. Better performance. More stability/reliability. If you have a perfect experience in windowed mode then of course it's worth a thought disabling the exclusive mode, because it comes with some user interface disadvantages.
Why is there (can be) tearing in windowed mode, compared to exclusive? Also does exclusive means what it implies, that other programs can't use the GPU at all?
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Old 23rd August 2011, 13:43   #9442  |  Link
Wile-E-Coyote
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I think VMR9 and EVR CP are counting the incoming frames and show that. madVR instead simply shows what the upstream filter (usually the decoder) reports. You can double check this with MPC-HC by looking at the pin media type information. An AvgTimePerFrame value of 400000 means 25p or 50i. An AvgTimePerFrame value of 200000 means 50p. It seems that ffdshow doesn't update the AvgTimePerFrame information when doing frame doubling, which I consider a bug.
You're right, the pin information on ffdshow output reports 400000 AvgTimePerFrame.

You say 400000 means 25p or 50i. Is madVR able to make the difference between progressive and interlaced content? I just tried activating the ffdshow setting "Set interlaced flag in output media type". Reclock sees the difference, but madVR doesn't.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 15:08   #9443  |  Link
STaRGaZeR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Thanks for the sample. Hmmmm... How can I reproduce the "wrong" output? And what is wrong and what is right with this sample? Is it supposed to be full range? According to the h264 bitstream headers, this video is limited range (16-235).
Told you how. The sample is limited range. When ffdshow or LAVV output converted full range RGB madVR still thinks it is limited range, and it double expands. Other videos work fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
But the sample you uploaded is MKV, not AVI. And it seems to be straight h264, not Fraps?
Yep, that is a different issue, should have separated it. Want a fraps sample?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm aware of that the current solution may not be perfect in all situations. But IMHO the problems would be bigger if I left RGB untouched. Neither solution is perfect, but for the average user I think mine is a lot better
If you know that, and that's the key here, then offer option(s) so we can bypass the limitations. You are right when you say that neither is fully correct. But for the average user, who comes from EVR and other shit I think yours is worse because things won't work like they did before (and they do work there, because RGB is like the holy grail, it bypasses all the postprocessing and crap drivers do). Besides, we here are not average users. I can't believe you offer options to configure a lot of uber minor things and you are so frontal against something so simple as levels, which are one of the most common problems out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I don't really recommend this approach, though. And I'd really like working on fixing whatever bugs might be left in v0.74's autodetection feature. So if you have any more samples which you find problematic with v0.74, please share, along with a description of how it goes wrong exactly. Thanks.
As I said, I'm sorry but I won't spend my limited time in something that I know it will never work fine. If you want to autodetect everything, go ahead and do it, just offer options like you do with gamma processing, because autodetection will never work fine for all cases. In fact I think that would be way better than the RGB bypass option I had in mind, because we'll have full control on what madVR does, RGB or not. But I don't care anymore, your renderer, your decisions. Ping me up if you want if you ever change your mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
LAV Videos current RGB converter will not modify levels (at least its not supposed to, it might be a bug if it is). If input is limited-range YUV, its supposed to output limited range RGB.

The new RGB converter i'm planning will offer an option for you to force TV or PC levels, but default to the same logic as its now, not doing any level conversions (which i think is the best way to interface with madVR)
Limited range YUV is converted to full range RGB here. Try the sample I uploaded above, but anything will do. This is ffdshow outputting PC levels, this is LAVV doing the same. Done with EVR for convenience, to avoid madVR messing it up. HQ conversions on both of course.

That default will cause bad levels on anything that is not madVR. Don't like that but as long as there is an option it's ok for me.
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Originally Posted by Manao View Post
That way, you have xxxx[p|i]yyy, where xxxx is the vertical resolution, yyy is the temporal resolution, and 'i' says the image has been irremediably destroyed.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 15:17   #9444  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR View Post
Limited range YUV is converted to full range RGB here. Try the sample I uploaded above, but anything will do. This is ffdshow outputting PC levels, this is LAVV doing the same. Done with EVR for convenience, to avoid madVR messing it up. HQ conversions on both of course
Hm, oh well. Guess swscales RGB conversion is full range rgb no matter what.
It'll be replaced sooner or later anyway.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 16:59   #9445  |  Link
ragg987
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force 25p to 24p not working

Hi, first post on doom9 for long-time user of HTPC!

I would like to use PAL speed-down from 25p to 24p, but cannot get it to work using madVR. My setup:

ATI HD5750, HDMI output, MPC-HC (latest beta), madVR .73, ffdshow audio (latest beta), reclock (latest).

ffdshow audio:
decodes DD and DTS, outputting PCM

madVR:
"force to 24p" enabled
"1080p24" and "1080p23" are available options in auto frequency

reclock:
"PAL slowdown force to 24p" enabled

Using internal MPC splitter. Also tried LAV splitter.

Playback does not used 24p, only 50p. While playing, reclock properties shows framerate is 23.976. madVR show it to be 50. These are PAL MKVs ripped from DVD using Handbrake.

Any pointers, please? Have I misunderstood the feature?
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Old 23rd August 2011, 18:06   #9446  |  Link
Razoola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fadeout View Post
What's the problem if one gets lots of presentation glitches in full screen exclusive, while the other queues seem to stay full?
I dont think this one has been totally pinpointed which is why madshi added various settings for people to try and reduce them. I do know that having high refresh rates (120hz) can be a part of the problem. Also nvidia driver versions have an impact on this.

In my case I had a gtx295 that would in most cases constantly incremented the presentation glitches. I never totally solved the problem and in the end I had the card RMA'd due to driver crashes in benchmarks (madVR usage was fine). Since getting the new card (same model and pcb revision) I do not have a problem with presentation glitches. Please take this with a pinch of salt however, I am not in anyway saying presentation glitches are a warning of GFX card fault but if you are also having system instability playing 3D games and benchmarks it may be worth looking into.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 20:54   #9447  |  Link
6233638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragg987 View Post
madVR:
"force to 24p" enabled
"1080p24" and "1080p23" are available options in auto frequency

reclock:
"PAL slowdown force to 24p" enabled

Using internal MPC splitter. Also tried LAV splitter.

Playback does not used 24p, only 50p. While playing, reclock properties shows framerate is 23.976. madVR show it to be 50. These are PAL MKVs ripped from DVD using Handbrake.

Any pointers, please? Have I misunderstood the feature?
First, I would try ripping a disc with MakeMKV to see that it's not your source files at fault. (it's free for DVDs and pretty much idiot-proof)

50Hz DVD at 24p:


My filter list in MPC-HC is:
LAV Audio Decoder
ffdshow Audio Processor (I use it to downmix to 2ch)
LAV CUVID Decoder
LAV Splitter
In the playback > output section of the preferences, I have madVR selected for video and ReClock for Audio.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
I dont think this one has been totally pinpointed which is why madshi added various settings for people to try and reduce them. I do know that having high refresh rates (120hz) can be a part of the problem. Also nvidia driver versions have an impact on this.
I'm still having this problem too, I believe it was introduced with the new render path. Unfortunately I also built a new system around the time that was introduced. I have to switch between the new and old render path depending on whether the source framerate is a match for the refresh rate (e.g. 24p @ 24Hz) or a multiple of it. (e.g. 30p @ 60Hz)

Last time I checked, I was still getting a black screen 90% of the time when using the built-in refresh rate switcher. (haven't checked it in the last couple of versions, but there hasn't been any mention of changes made to it)

Last edited by 6233638; 23rd August 2011 at 20:57.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 22:33   #9448  |  Link
ragg987
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
First, I would try ripping a disc with MakeMKV to see that it's not your source files at fault.
Thanks for that - my rips could well be the issue. I tried an original PAL DVD, and it switches to 24p. The same MKV rip stays at 25p, so seems something in the ripping process has caused a problem. I had used handbrake defaults, so probably need to revisit my settings or switch my MKV conversion utility.
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Old 24th August 2011, 02:23   #9449  |  Link
andybkma
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For all those that have high CPU consumption when paused, on my Windows 7 I noticed that I have that same problem too (10-20) with the default settings. But when I uncheck the "Present Several Frames In Advance" setting, the problem goes away. Just thought I'd throw that out there
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Old 24th August 2011, 02:36   #9450  |  Link
GrandMax
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@STaRGaZeR. You do realize that Madshi is doing an outstanding work here, for free. This is the best renderer available, so stop whining and appreciate. Use something else if you don't like it. You sound like a unique child who has got too much attention.

@madshi. Thanks. Great job. I am very much impressed.

I had some issue reading very high bitrate files in MPC-HC. I had several frame drops. I tried different filters and could not make it work. I have an OCed AMD X6 and dual 6870s.

Sample Included......: YES
Source...............: Remux
Container............: MKV
Length...............: 3h 55min
Size.................: 23.7 GiB
Total Bitrate........: 14.4 Mbps

Codec................: DTSMA
Bitrate..............: 3871 kbps/1510kbps
Channels.............: 6.1
Language.............: English
Subtitles............: English , Polish , Czech


Codec ID.............: V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Type.................: 1080p
Resolution...........: 1920x800
Aspect Ratio.........: 2.40:1
Bitrate..............: 12.6 Mbps
Framerate............: 23.976 fps

Potplayer with madvr could render the file without frame drops. I thought I would report even though it seems to exclude madvr as a potential cause.

Moreover, for all files, I get lots of frame drops when I go back to windowed mode. Moving the windows fixes the issue. Any clue how to fix this in the settings. Maybe different flushing strategy?

Cheers and thanks!

PS: I am still using .73

Last edited by GrandMax; 24th August 2011 at 02:42.
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Old 24th August 2011, 04:27   #9451  |  Link
Zed86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
You can just overwrite the files. No uninstall/install needed in most cases. If you want to be sure you can click on uninstall before overwriting the files, and then on install after overwriting the files. In any case, no need to delete the old files.


No tearing. Better performance. More stability/reliability. If you have a perfect experience in windowed mode then of course it's worth a thought disabling the exclusive mode, because it comes with some user interface disadvantages.


madVR does not show an OSD when seeking, unless the media player asks for that. You may have to talk to the Potplayer developer about this.



Thanks for the responses madshi.

As for the OSD, I might not have been clear about the small grey OSD that pops up on top left corner of the screen while jumping a minute or 5 mins, I don't want it to be disabled completely,
I want to use Potplayer's own OSD time-stamp while jumping or seeking.. Is there a way to do this? why does it only show up in full screen and not windowed?!

- Also, I just noticed yesterday while trying to capture a frame I would get a blurred/corrupt image. This didn't happen when using EVR, so I'm guessing I need to configure something in madVR?

Thanks for your time, and keep it up.
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Old 24th August 2011, 05:17   #9452  |  Link
emueyes
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Hi all

Sorry to have such a newby question, but 473 pages is too much to go through and the question too generic to search for

running install.bat (as admin) pops up the usual dialog, and tells me the files haven't been copied anywhere

but then madVR shows up in MPC-HC greyed out

am using
Win7 x64 (no SP)
GTS250 card with 275.33 drivers
MPC-HC 1.5.3.3677 (this might be the problem, I suspect)

Thanks for any help, and I'll keep looking. I actually just discovered the LAV CUVID and ppls there reckon madVR is the best renderer to be using
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Old 24th August 2011, 05:23   #9453  |  Link
namaiki
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Try run install.bat not as admin.
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Old 24th August 2011, 07:40   #9454  |  Link
emueyes
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run install.bat as myself (admin privilege account) the same thing happens, madVR shows up greyed out in MPCs renderer list

running as a standard user tells me that registering the directshow filters failed
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Old 24th August 2011, 07:45   #9455  |  Link
Zed86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emueyes View Post
run install.bat as myself (admin privilege account) the same thing happens, madVR shows up greyed out in MPCs renderer list

running as a standard user tells me that registering the directshow filters failed
Just login as admin, then LEFT click on intall.bat. without right-click then run as admin. Just one left click will do, and it's normal for it to say that it did't copy any files because it doesn't need to, it says that so you won't move or delete that folder, always keep it in the same path/directory. Try again
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Old 24th August 2011, 07:47   #9456  |  Link
namaiki
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emueyes, are you using MPC-HC 32-bit?
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Old 24th August 2011, 08:25   #9457  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audionut View Post
I've recently noticed the same thing.

I am a Nvidia user with a refresh rate of 60hz playing 23.976fps content.
Try "use separate device for presentation". That often helps. If not, try some of the "not recommended" exclusive mode tweak settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
LAV Videos current RGB converter will not modify levels (at least its not supposed to, it might be a bug if it is). If input is limited-range YUV, its supposed to output limited range RGB.

The new RGB converter i'm planning will offer an option for you to force TV or PC levels, but default to the same logic as its now, not doing any level conversions (which i think is the best way to interface with madVR)
Sounds good to me. Once you implement this, could you please also tell madVR which levels you convert to (DXVA_ExtendedFormat)? For that you'd only have to set the NominalRange part of the structure. You could leave the other fields empty, until you add full support for all those values.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzso View Post
So, I watched the GPU clock with GPU-Z and it seemed constant at 796 MHz (don't know why it isn't 800 as shown in catalyst though...) all the time. So I guess it isn't downthrottling.

Could the GPU memory size be a problem? Or what else?

Its also suspicious to me that the GPU usage graph (in process explorer) never goes above ~15% if the GPU would lack the power wouldn't it be much higher?
Have you tried reinstalling the GPU drivers? I'm not sure where the problem is coming from. Don't know what else to suggest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzso View Post
Why is there (can be) tearing in windowed mode, compared to exclusive? Also does exclusive means what it implies, that other programs can't use the GPU at all?
In windowed mode the OS copies the rendered frames to screen. If the copy is done while the VSync is in the middle of the screen, you'll get tearing. In exclusive mode the rendered frames are not copied to screen, they're swapped via VSync interrupt. So tearing can't occur.

In exclusive mode other programs may eventually still be able to use the GPU, but they can't show anything visible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile-E-Coyote View Post
You say 400000 means 25p or 50i. Is madVR able to make the difference between progressive and interlaced content?
madVR shows "frames per second" not "fields per second". The current madVR version can't do deinterlacing, so it expects progressive content from you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR View Post
Told you how. The sample is limited range. When ffdshow or LAVV output converted full range RGB madVR still thinks it is limited range, and it double expands. Other videos work fine.
Ok, I can reproduce the problem. Looks like a simple bug which should be easy to fix (without breaking anything else) for ffdshow. LAV Video is a different topic. Accordingly to nevcairiel's posts LAV Video does currently not do what it's supposed to do, so I consider that a bug in LAV Video. This problem should be fixed in a future LAV Video version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR View Post
Yep, that is a different issue, should have separated it. Want a fraps sample?
Yes, please. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR View Post
If you know that, and that's the key here, then offer option(s) so we can bypass the limitations.
There already is an option, see my previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR View Post
RGB is like the holy grail, it bypasses all the postprocessing and crap drivers do
It does not, unfortunately. Even if you feed RGB to EVR/VMR/Haali, the GPU might still screw up the levels. E.g. set ATI to "RGB Limited" and the GPU will stretch 0-255 to 16-235 behind your back. Or use NVidia with an "SD" or "HD" standard resolution, and you have the same problem. With NVidia you have to create a custom resolution to work around the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR View Post
Besides, we here are not average users. I can't believe you offer options to configure a lot of uber minor things and you are so frontal against something so simple as levels, which are one of the most common problems out there.
I want to make things easy for the average user. Which means that ultimately madVR will get a display setup wizard which will guide the user through setup of every newly detected display (PC levels vs. video levels etc). Once that is done, madVR will make sure that the required levels are actually output to the display. This can only work if madVR can automatically detect what levels upstream filters are sending to madVR. I believe I should be able to make the autodetection work in 99.9% of all cases. Without autodetection, the user would have to manually tweak all the decoder filters etc to make sure that RGB is converted to the right levels. Furthermore, if the user moves the media player from his computer type LCD monitor to the secondary projector, suddenly he'd have to switch RGB levels, which I consider a usability catastrophe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandMax View Post
I had some issue reading very high bitrate files in MPC-HC. I had several frame drops. I tried different filters and could not make it work.
Which queue is at which state in the madVR OSD (Ctrl+J) when you get the frame drops?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandMax View Post
Moreover, for all files, I get lots of frame drops when I go back to windowed mode. Moving the windows fixes the issue. Any clue how to fix this in the settings. Maybe different flushing strategy?
Same question as above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed86 View Post
As for the OSD, I might not have been clear about the small grey OSD that pops up on top left corner of the screen while jumping a minute or 5 mins, I don't want it to be disabled completely,
I want to use Potplayer's own OSD time-stamp while jumping or seeking.. Is there a way to do this?
Basically you've repeated your question. So I'll repeat my answer:

madVR does not show an OSD when seeking, unless the media player asks for that. You may have to talk to the Potplayer developer about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed86 View Post
Also, I just noticed yesterday while trying to capture a frame I would get a blurred/corrupt image. This didn't happen when using EVR, so I'm guessing I need to configure something in madVR?
Can you reproduce that? If so, please upload a screenshot with madVR vs. EVR.
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Old 24th August 2011, 08:42   #9458  |  Link
Zed86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post


Basically you've repeated your question. So I'll repeat my answer:

madVR does not show an OSD when seeking, unless the media player asks for that. You may have to talk to the Potplayer developer about this.


Can you reproduce that? If so, please upload a screenshot with madVR vs. EVR.
Here ya go.





Oh and as for the OSD, last time ,
I want it to display it as EVR or Haali or even VMR9,
(the same font, color, size..) madVR is the only one to show it's own OSD and I wanna know, if possible, how to revert to the original blue Potplayer OSD. I know I can let Potplayer not show it, but I need it, just not the black one lol

Thanks.
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Old 24th August 2011, 08:49   #9459  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by Zed86 View Post
Here ya go.
Weird. Do you actually see the corrupted image on screen in PotPlayer? Or does the corruption only occur if you try to capture? How do you capture? Using PotPlayer's internal capture functionality? Or pressing Ctrl+Print? Or some other way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed86 View Post
Oh and as for the OSD, last time ,
I want it to display it as EVR or Haali or even VMR9,
(the same font, color, size..) madVR is the only one to show it's own OSD and I wanna know, if possible, how to revert to the original blue Potplayer OSD. I know I can let Potplayer not show it, but I need it, just not the black one lol
I don't have any control over what kind of OSD PotPlayer shows. I don't show my own OSD when a seek is done. But PotPlayer might invoke madVR's OSD, there's an API for that, I don't know if PotPlayer is doing that. You will have to talk to the PotPlayer developer. There's nothing I can do here.
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Old 24th August 2011, 08:51   #9460  |  Link
emueyes
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Originally Posted by namaiki View Post
emueyes, are you using MPC-HC 32-bit?
I'm running 64bit MPC-HC.

Also tried just running the batch file, with the same result.


Is madVR 32bit only? I guess I should have looked first before making a silly mistake like that. The Arcsoft drives were also 32bit, but gave a slightly different message.
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