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Old 6th April 2016, 20:32   #941  |  Link
kevbo
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Well, great! I was actually a bit concerned that I just didn't understand something and that I was asking a stupid question.

Is there any way for the GUI to remember settings like that? To set those checkboxes to the same setting as you chose last time? (The other one that would be handy is the "720p" option on page 5.)

Thanks again for this fine program! I'm excited about the MKV option, because then I can move the ISO images to MKV files!

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Old 7th April 2016, 09:47   #942  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
Is there any way for the GUI to remember settings like that? To set those checkboxes to the same setting as you chose last time? (The other one that would be handy is the "720p" option on page 5.)
The settings from the Settings menu are saved immediately, as you change them. The configuration of the pages 2 and 5 (or at least the settings that are not BD dependent), including the audio conversion and the 720p options, are saved with "Save Settings Now", at the bottom of the Settings menu. They are also automatically saved when BD3D2MK3D is closed if you have ticked the option "Save Settings on Exit".
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Old 10th April 2016, 08:40   #943  |  Link
Triple-M
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First, sorry for my English, if something ist wrong...

I found your App and it it's really great. I have some 3D-MKV Files, made with makeMKV and i want your Tool to convert them into the right 3D-MKV-Format.

Can you or someone else tell me or show me where i can find the Info what i should select "Left View in AVC Stream" or "Right View in AVC Stream" to convert the File correctly? Can i find the Info in tsmuxer GUI when i open die 3D-MKV File made with makeMKV? But where?

Same question with the 3D-Plane Option.

Thanks a lot....

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Old 10th April 2016, 10:26   #944  |  Link
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How to find the view order and 3D-Plane numbers for a 3D-MKV created with MakeMKV

Welcome to the Doom9 forums, Triple-M !

Unfortunately, currently, it is not possible to find the information about the views order and the 3D-planes in the 3D-MKV file. If that was possible, BD3D2MK3D would retrieve it for you. We have asked the authors of MakeMKV to add that information in the file, and we hope that the next version of MakeMKV will correctly set the stereoscopy mode in the MKV header and will implement tags for the 3D-planes. When that will be the case, BD3D2MK3D should be able to recognise the info, and you will not see the red warnings any more.

In the meantime, the only way to retrieve the info is by examining the original BD3D, with BD3D2MK3D or with tsMuxeR. When you load a BD in BD3D2MK3D, you can see something like this:
Code:
Video   :  Und  AVC, 1080p, 23.976 fps, left-eye
Video   :  Und  MVC, 1080p, 23.976 fps, right-eye (32 3D-Planes)
Audio   :  Eng  TrueHD, Multi-channel, 48/96 Khz
Audio   :  Fra  TrueHD, Multi-channel, 48/96 Khz
Subtitle:  Eng  PGS, 3D-plane: 1
Subtitle:  Fra  PGS, 3D-plane: 2
Subtitle:  Esp  PGS, 3D-plane: 3
Here, the views are in the common order (AVC = left view). Note that most players assume the "Left view in AVC" order, because about 90% of the 3DBDs are authored that way. If you need to swap the views on your TV or with your software player to see the 3D correctly, the views are in the opposite order: Right view in AVC. It is therefore probably easy to find the correct view order with Stereoscopic Player.


Things are very different for the 3D-Planes. In many BDs, the order of the subtitle streams determine the 3D-Planes numbers, like in the example above. But note that the first 3D-Plane is 3D-Plane #0. Here, the plane #0 is not used, and the first subtitle stream is associated with the second 3D-Plane, #1. The rest is logical. Unfortunately, there is no well established rule for the assignment of the 3D-Planes. The 3D-Plane #0 may or may not be used, and the order of the 3D-Planes may or may not be sequential. It is therefore almost impossible to deduce the 3D-Plane to use without examining the BD.

However, it is possible to use a good 3D-Plane without knowing the original assignment. Here is how.

You should try to assign a number that *may* be correct, and let BD3D2MK3D create the project. When the project is finished, you will find the 3D-Planes in the project directory, and the subtitle streams you have converted in XML/PNG format in sub-directories with names similar to this: 00801.track_4610.Fra.3D_2D. Now, use Subtitle Tools -> Verify 3D-Planes Compatibility. In the dialog, select the temp_2D.xml file of the subtitle stream, and the project directory containing the 3D-Planes (such as "...\Movie title\00000"). The tool will create a log file similar to this:
Quote:
Validity of the 3D-planes from directory "E:\BD3D2MK3D_projects\Test\00801"
with the subtitle file "E:\BD3D2MK3D_projects\Test\00801\00801.track_4610.Fra.3D_2D\temp_2D.xml".
Frame rate used: 23.976023976023978 fps
Processing all subtitles (normal and forced).

Total number of subtitles: 1431

3D-Plane-00.ofs:
0 subtitles with totally undefined depth.
0 subtitles with partially undefined depth.
Subtitle frames with undefined depths: 0
(Depth values for current subtitle stream: Min=16, Max=16, Average=16.0)
*** WARNING: Fixed depth 16! ***

3D-Plane-01.ofs:
0 subtitles with totally undefined depth.
0 subtitles with partially undefined depth.
Subtitle frames with undefined depths: 0
(Depth values for current subtitle stream: Min=16, Max=16, Average=16.0)
*** WARNING: Fixed depth 16! ***

3D-Plane-02.ofs:
8 subtitles with totally undefined depth.
12 subtitles with partially undefined depth.
Subtitle frames with undefined depths: 602
(Depth values for current subtitle stream: Min=-8, Max=70, Average=19.379)

3D-Plane-03.ofs:
3 subtitles with totally undefined depth.
1 subtitles with partially undefined depth.
Subtitle frames with undefined depths: 206
(Depth values for current subtitle stream: Min=-6, Max=72, Average=18.454)

3D-Plane-04.ofs:
2 subtitles with totally undefined depth.
0 subtitles with partially undefined depth.
Subtitle frames with undefined depths: 46
(Depth values for current subtitle stream: Min=-6, Max=72, Average=19.118)

3D-Plane-05.ofs:
3 subtitles with totally undefined depth.
1 subtitles with partially undefined depth.
Subtitle frames with undefined depths: 206
(Depth values for current subtitle stream: Min=-6, Max=72, Average=18.446)

3D-Plane-06.ofs:
3 subtitles with totally undefined depth.
1 subtitles with partially undefined depth.
Subtitle frames with undefined depths: 206
(Depth values for current subtitle stream: Min=-6, Max=72, Average=19.667)

3D-Plane-07.ofs:
1 subtitles with totally undefined depth.
0 subtitles with partially undefined depth.
Subtitle frames with undefined depths: 78
(Depth values for current subtitle stream: Min=-6, Max=72, Average=19.222)

3D-Plane-08.ofs:
4 subtitles with totally undefined depth.
0 subtitles with partially undefined depth.
Subtitle frames with undefined depths: 149
(Depth values for current subtitle stream: Min=-6, Max=72, Average=18.442)

Notes:
The depth of any particular subtitle may be undefined for several reasons.
The 3D-plane may contain undefined depth values for some or all frames of a particular subtitle. When it's the case, BD3D2MK3D ignores the undefined frames, and takes into account only the frames with a valid depth.
The 3D-plane may be too short, and therefore it may not contain sufficient depth values to cover the subtitles appearing near the end of the movie. In that case, BD3D2MK3D uses a depth value of 0.

When a subtitle file is converted to 3D, the temp_2D.xml file is generated and modified to include the <Depth> tags extracted from the selected 3D-plane file. (The Additional Depth value specified in the GUI is NOT added to that value.)
In addition to the <depth> tags, the <UndefinedFrameDepths> tag is added as well when there is at least one frame with an undefined depth for that specific subtitle. The value of that tag is the number of frames without a valid depth for that specific subtitle.
You can search for "UndefinedFrameDepths" in the XML file to easily find all subtitles that may not have a correct depth value.
The depth values that will be used during the conversion of the temp_2D file to the final 3D subtitle file are stored in the <Depth> tags and can be edited manually when necessary.

Terminology used in this log:
* Subtitles with totally undefined depth: When the depth values of ALL frames of a particular subtitle are undefined.
* Subtitles with partially undefined depth: When the depth values of SOME frames of a particular subtitle are undefined.
* Subtitle frames with undefined depths: Total number of all frames where a subtitle must be displayed with an undefined depths.
* Min, Max and Average depth values for current subtitle stream: The smaller, greater and average depth values found in the 3D-plane in the frames during which a subtitle is displayed. The undefined frames are not taken into account. (See the 3D-plane log file generated during the extraction of the 3D-plane files from the MVC stream to see the global min, max and average depths.)
* Fixed depth warning: That warning is added when all frames during which a subtitle is displayed have exactly the same depth value. (Again, the undefined depth are not taken into account.) That means that the 3D-plane is probably fake or badly authored, and is useless anyway.
As you can see, the first 3D-Planes have a fixed depth. You should avoid them.

In the other 3D-Planes, look at the numbers of subtitles with totally undefined depth, subtitles with partially undefined depth, and subtitle frames with undefined depths. The lower the best. Therefore, the 3D-Planes #4 and #7 seem to be the best for the subtitle stream that has been analysed. They are good bets. In fact, with this BD, the French subtitles use the 3D-Plane #4. It has good values. As you can see, there is no perfect way to determine the correct 3D-Plane, but the tool can help you in finding a good one.

Now, if the "good" 3D-Plane is not the one you have selected when you have generated the project, you can simply convert the 2D XML/PNG stream to 3D again with Subtitle tools -> Convert Subtitles to 3D, and of course use the new 3D-Plane. You can overwrite the original 3D SUP (or SUB) file created by BD3D2MK3D, or save the new subtitle under a different name and modify the filename of the streams in the __MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt file.

Finally, launch the encoding of the final SBS or T&B file, and verify carefully the subtitles. It they look wrong, try with another stream. You don't need to re-encode the video (unless you hardcode the subtitles on the video). Just use the __MUX.3D.cmd to re-create the final MKV with the new 3D subtitles.

Good luck!
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Old 10th April 2016, 10:52   #945  |  Link
Triple-M
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Thank You.

When i load a BD with BD3D2MK3D i see a list of how you described. In my Case the AVC Stream is also left, now i unsterstand.

But what you've written about the 3D-Planes sounds very complicated. Is all this also important if i only used forced subtitles?
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Old 10th April 2016, 10:59   #946  |  Link
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Yes, it's important too. The correct depths of the individual subtitles depend of the 3D-Plane, and if you select a wrong 3D-Plane, you may have some subtitles entering within the foreground objects. It's terrible for the brain! Of course, if there are only a few forced subtitles, the risk of bad depths is less important, but that doesn't mean that you can ignore it.

Don't worry. The method to determine a correct 3D-Plane looks complicated, but it is not. The Verify 3D-Planes Compatibility tool can be used to verify if the 3D-Plane you have selected in tab 2 was correct or totally wrong. In the second case, you can find a good one easily with the tool, and convert the 2D stream to 3D manually. That's really not difficult. Try to do it, and you'll see.
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Old 10th April 2016, 11:53   #947  |  Link
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I'm working on the processing of the audio by BD3D2MK3D (to allow the user to convert the AC3, THD and EAC3 streams to AAC too), and I verify if it works correctly in MKV-3D input mode too. And I have a problem !

I use a short movie with an E-AC3 (DD+) track to do my tests. When I demux the E-AC3 track from the BD with tsMuxeR or eac3to (without the option to keep only the core), I get a file of 19,961 KB. When I retrieve only the core, the file size is 11,406 KB. MediaInfo recognises the files correctly as AC3+ or AC3. So far so good.

But when I convert the movie to 3D-MKV with MakeMKV and I ask to keep the whole AC3+ file and the AC3 core, it creates two streams in the MKV container: the AC3+ and the AC3. That seems correct. But when the AC3+ stream is extracted with tsMuxeR (without the core option), its size is only 8,555 KB. (The size of the AC3 stream is correctly 11,406 KB.) And MediaInfo doesn't recognise the AC3+ stream it at all. It prints only its file size.

Demuxing the same stream from the 3D-MKV with eac3to gives the same result, but it prints an error message:
Code:
MKV, 1 video track, 5 audio tracks, 0:03:02, 24p /1.001
1: h264/MVC (right eye), English, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
2: TrueHD, English, 7.1 channels, 48kHz
   "Surround 7.1"
3: AC3, English, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48kHz
   "Surround 5.1"
4: AC3 Surround, English, 2.0 channels, 320kbps, 48kHz
   "Stereo"
5: EAC3, French, 2/2 channels, 48kHz
   "Surround 4.0"
6: AC3, French, 5.1 channels, 512kbps, 48kHz
   "Surround 5.1"
Bitstream parsing for track 5 failed.
Demuxing this track may still produce correct results - or not.
a05 Extracting audio track number 5...
a05 Creating file "test.eac3"...
Video track 1 contains 4375 frames.
eac3to processing took 6 seconds.
Done.
Since 11,406 KB + 8,555 KB = 19,961 KB, it seems that MakeMKV extracts the non-core part of the original AC3+ stream and stores it as a full AC3+ stream in the 3D-MKV.

I don't understand why it does that. Does it make sense to store the AC3+ stream without its core? AFAIK, the "+" extension cannot be decoded without the core. Correct?

Is it a known bug of MakeMKV ? If it's the case, should BD3D2MK3D prohibit to use the AC3+ streams from a 3D-MKV container created by MakeMKV ? Or should we report that bug to the MakeMKV staff ?

Thanks in advance if someone can help me understand that mess!
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Old 10th April 2016, 16:06   #948  |  Link
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I tried my luck and opened a 3D-BD in BD3D2MK3D to see which Stream i must select. The encoding is completed without an error after 3 hours but the merged MKV File is only 5GB large. This can't be right or?
The MKV File from makeMKV is 30GB large. Where ist the mistake?

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Old 10th April 2016, 16:21   #949  |  Link
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MakeMKV only copies the streams from the BluRay. BD3D2MK3D re-compresses the MVC stream to a different format so the file size can change dramatically. You cannot convert from MVC to Side by Side or Top & Bottom without re-encoding. If you think the resulting quality is too low for your taste you can decrease the CRF value. Then the files will come out bigger and with better quality.
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Old 10th April 2016, 16:26   #950  |  Link
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Ok, i thought thats the encoder option which ist not right but what kind of attitude ist right for the best video quality? CRF 0? Or CQ, 2-pass or ABR?
Like I said I want the best possible quality, equal to the Bitrate of the BD or the 3D-MKV File from makeMKV.

Last edited by Triple-M; 10th April 2016 at 16:32.
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Old 10th April 2016, 16:28   #951  |  Link
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CRF is usually recommended. The lower the CRF value the better the quality and the bigger the file. But at some point there are diminishing returns. The file could become even bigger than the original BluRay! Most people on here seem to use a value between 16 and 20.
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Old 10th April 2016, 18:36   #952  |  Link
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Yep. I use CRF 18 for the movies where the video quality is very important (like Sin City 2), and CRF 22 when I just want to keep a movie but I want the smallest file size. The default, CRF 23, gives already very good results.

Note also that the CRF mode gives very different file sizes for movies of the same length. For example, CRF 20 may produce a very small file of only 2 or 3 GB if the movie is very easy to compress, like a CGI (Pixar) movie. In the other hand, an old movie with much noise may require 10 GB for the same movie duration. It's absolutely normal, and it's one of the major advantages of the CRF mode over 1 and 2-pass. The quality is maintained in all cases, regardless of the difficulty to compress the movie. (It's different if you use 1 or 2-pass encoding, where the bitrate is specified. And anyway, 2-pass gives always a slightly lower quality than CRF for the same file size.)

The CRF value is not all. You can compress even better without quality loss if you select a slower preset. I use normally the slow or slower preset, to keep a very good quality with a small file size.

And don't forget that in the original BD, two full-size video streams are encoded. In Half-SBS or Half-T&B, the resolution is divided by 2 and therefore the resulting movie requires much less disc space anyway.

Finally, don't be scared by the final size. It may appear too small, but x264 is an excellent encoder, and IMO, the large bitrates used for the commercial BDs are mainly to impress the consumer, and justify the high price for a double-layer BD 50. IMO, it's usually not necessary. Trust your eyes, and watch the small movies encoded with a relatively high CRF without prejudice. I bet that you will not see the difference with the original BD.
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Old 10th April 2016, 21:04   #953  |  Link
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Thanks both of you.

I finished my first File and compared it with the original BD. In my opinion the 3D-Effect of the new encoded MKV-File ist much better as directly from the BD! This is great!

Is there an option in the Settings or so that my TV recognized automatically the 3D-Signal and switch on 3D-Mode? My MediaPlayer is AppleTV 4....
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Old 10th April 2016, 23:46   #954  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
[...]
I don't understand why it does that. Does it make sense to store the AC3+ stream without its core? AFAIK, the "+" extension cannot be decoded without the core. Correct?

Is it a known bug of MakeMKV ? If it's the case, should BD3D2MK3D prohibit to use the AC3+ streams from a 3D-MKV container created by MakeMKV ? Or should we report that bug to the MakeMKV staff ?

Thanks in advance if someone can help me understand that mess!
Seems its MakeMKV.

Dolby Digital Plus Problem

Dazkine Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:38 am
Quote:
yeah but also PowerDVD doesnt like what MakeMKV is producing...

Dolby Digital Plus on Bluray contains a Dolby Digital 5.1 Stream + 4ch encoded in Dolby Digital Plus.

A non DD+ capable device uses the Dolby Digital Stream
A DD+ capable device uses the Dolby Digital 5.1 Stream, but replaces the 2 rear channels with the four channels encoded in Dolby Digital Plus. That makes a 7.1 Signal (3.1 from the DD Stream, and 4.0 from the DD+ Stream)

Dolby Digital+ can also exist alone (Television, Streaming, HD-DVD), but on Bluray its like I said.

I guess MakeMKV is just producing 2 independent Audiostreams, but that doesnt work for Blurays. The Bluray Player always needs the DD Signal + the DD+ "extension".

So it's a mix of 2 audiocodecs.

It more like DTS-HD cause there the HD extension also needs the "core"

When you play back the original disc PowerDVD is reporting "Dolby Digital Plus 7.1"

Last edited by thahandy; 10th April 2016 at 23:48.
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Old 10th April 2016, 23:56   #955  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple-M View Post
Is there an option in the Settings or so that my TV recognized automatically the 3D-Signal and switch on 3D-Mode? My MediaPlayer is AppleTV 4....
There are 3 things that a player can use to switch to the right 3D-mode automatically: the stereoscopy mode in the MKV header, the frame-packing in the video stream, and an extension in the file name. BD3D2MK3D sets the stereoscopy and the frame-packing automatically. Most hardware players recognise the frame-packing. If it's not sufficient, maybe you have to select one of the two 3D extension in the file name. See Settings -> Output File Name -> 3D Format Extension. You may also try to use the .mk3d file extension instead of .mkv.

If nothing works, consult the Apple TV manual, and if there is a special file extension not already implemented in BD3D2MK3D, I'll add it. Otherwise, ask Apple to do a better job!
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Old 10th April 2016, 23:59   #956  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thahandy View Post
Seems its MakeMKV.
Yep. It's also what I've noticed. Pity. And thanks for the info.
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Old 14th April 2016, 14:06   #957  |  Link
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Support your Tool DTS 7.1 or Dolby Atmos? I have a BD with DTS 7.1 and the File at the End has only DTS 5.1.
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Old 15th April 2016, 10:48   #958  |  Link
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Yes.

In tab '2: Select Streams' uncheck 'Use the 5.1 core of DTS-HD...'
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Old 15th April 2016, 11:01   #959  |  Link
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Ok, thanks. I didn't unchecked it because the note "highly recommended".
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Old 16th April 2016, 10:00   #960  |  Link
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BD3D2MK3D v0.88

As promised, it is now possible to convert any audio stream to AAC.

I have also verified the conversion when using a 3D-MKV file created by MakeMKV as input, and unfortunately I have had to prohibit to use the E-AC3/DD+ streams with 4 channels only. They are bad conversion by MakeMKV, totally unusable. Luckily, the E-AC3 format is rarely used on the commercial BDs, but if you have a movie with DD+ streams, you will have to select the AC3 core in the MakeMKV GUI. When that huge bug will be fixed in MakeMKV, BD3D2MK3D should accept the E-AC3 tracks (with 7.1 channels) without problem.

Please note that when using a 3D MKV as input, it is not possible to convert or extract the core of the TrueHD audio tracks, because the THD stream is stored "alone", without a 5.1 pseudo-core in the MKV. (It's a Matroska requirement.) Therefore, there is nothing to extract. It is not possible either to convert the THD track to AC3, simply because it doesn't make much sense to convert the THD track when the AC3 track is available without conversion in the original BD. If you want to keep the AC3 track, you have to select it in the MakeMKV GUI. (Of course, you can also convert the THD track manually with the Tool menu or with eac3to, but that's another story.)

There are also two important bugs fixed in the tool to convert a SRT subtitle file to ASS 3D.
Quote:
v0.88 (April 16, 2016)
- When the option to convert the audio streams to AAC is selected in tab 2, all audio tracks are now converted, instead of only the DTS and LPCM tracks.
- The extension .dtshdma for the demuxed DTS-HD-MA tracks was wrong. It is now .dtsma as it should for eac3to.
- The option to keep only the core of HD audio tracks in tab 2 is now removed when a 3D-MKV created by MakeMKV is the source.
- It is not possible any more to use the bad and useless E-AC3 (DD+) audio tracks created by MakeMKV (with only 4 channels)
- The labels of the DTS-HD/MA audio tracks in the final MKV show now the number of channels for the HD and the core (like 7.1/5.1)
- The labels of the audio tracks converted to AAC show now also the Quality value that has been used to do the conversion.
- Small cosmetic changes.
- Bug fix in Convert SRT to ASS 3D: The first subtitle was sometimes missing when the input file is encoded in UTF-8/16.
- Bug fix in Convert SRT to ASS 3D: The 2-lines subtitles were not properly converted as one long line with \N.
- Bug fix: Some tools crached when trying to open a file or folder if no BD or MKV was loaded first.
- Updated x264 to the latest version (0.148.2692)
Download: BD3D2MK3D.7z
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r0lZ
PgcEdit homepage (hosted by VideoHelp)
BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D blu-rays to SBS, T&B or FS MKV
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