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Old 3rd January 2018, 11:32   #48021  |  Link
Goeggel
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HDR10 conundrum

A happy New Year to everyone here and a conundrum regarding HDR10 for the new year…:
  • I have a couple of HDR10 demos, which let my Sony TV switch automatically into HDR mode using Zoom Player and madVR
  • I have a couple of supposedly HDR movies, which DON’T let my Sony TV switch automatically into HDR mode using Zoom Player and madVR, but when playing them through the TV built-in video app, the TV switches automatically into HDR mode

My setup:
Windows 10 Enterprise 1709 64bit
Zoom Player 14
madVR v0.92.10 -> set to 10bit and 0-255 and HDR metadata passthrough
Nvidia GTX 980 385.69 -> set to 12bit and RGB Full
Sony XD9305 TV (HDR ready)

Test scenario A:
Playing HDR10 demos (Exodus trailer and LG Colors of Journey demo) through madVR -> TV switches to HDR mode -> ok
Playing HDR10 demos (Exodus trailer and LG Colors of Journey demo) through TV built-in video app -> TV switches to HDR mode -> ok
CTRL+J shows the following information for both files:
D3D11 10bit windowed
Matrix/Primaries BT.2020
P010 10bit 4:2:0
Test scenario B:
Playing HDR10 movies (HDR10 according to their file names) through madVR -> TV doesn’t switch to HDR mode -> not ok
Playing HDR10 movies (HDR10 according to their file names) through TV built-in video app -> TV switches to HDR mode -> ok
CTRL+J shows the following information for both files:
D3D11 10bit windowed
Matrix/Primaries BT.709
YV12 8bit 4:2:0
The movies first look washed out when playing through madVR. But when switching the TV manually to HDR, the colours seem to be fine (they look the same as when playing throug the built-in video app).

Now to the conundrum (I hope you are still with me…):
  • According to their file names, the movies are supposed to be in 4K HDR10.
  • The movies are from different release groups, but they behave all the same.
  • When playing them through the TV built-in video app, the TV automatically switches into HDR mode.

Could it be that madVR somehow misinterprets the movies’ video data? Is there any other explanation for this behaviour? How can I tell whether the movie files are really HDR 10bit?
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Old 3rd January 2018, 11:48   #48022  |  Link
mytbyte
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@Goeggel: you could post here the report generated from running your trouble files through Mediainfo software...we need to see what metadata are there in the file in order to help...just please omit the title of the movie from the report

Last edited by mytbyte; 3rd January 2018 at 11:58.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 12:43   #48023  |  Link
Goeggel
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@mytbyte:

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 1 h 48 min
Bit rate : 45.0 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.226
Stream size : 34.0 GiB (76%)
Writing library : ATEME Titan KFE 3.7.3 (4.7.3.1003)
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : PQ
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : Display P3
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0000 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2

Last edited by Goeggel; 3rd January 2018 at 15:57.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 17:20   #48024  |  Link
mytbyte
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@goeggel: all seems correct...except I've never seen a feature film encoded with ATEME Titan KFE
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Old 3rd January 2018, 17:47   #48025  |  Link
Goeggel
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@mytbyte: As the metadata seems ok, why does madVR show "Matrix/Primaries BT.709 / YV12 8bit 4:2:0" for this movie and seemingly not passthrough the HDR info to the TV? Does madVR do SDR conversion in this case?

The Sony TV video app seems to be able to read the metadata correctly as it automatically switches to HDR.

Thanks for the quick replies by the way!
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Old 3rd January 2018, 18:43   #48026  |  Link
d3rd3vil
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Still no Dolby Vision passthrough
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Old 3rd January 2018, 19:13   #48027  |  Link
Asmodian
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Dolby Vision requires A LOT more than a "passthrough". Please, try keep these reminders down to once every half a year, at most.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 19:38   #48028  |  Link
nussman
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@d3rd3vil: I think this is really enough now. Please open a "Dolby Vision" thread if you want to and stop spamming here.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 20:17   #48029  |  Link
mytbyte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goeggel View Post
@mytbyte: As the metadata seems ok, why does madVR show "Matrix/Primaries BT.709 / YV12 8bit 4:2:0" for this movie and seemingly not passthrough the HDR info to the TV? Does madVR do SDR conversion in this case?

The Sony TV video app seems to be able to read the metadata correctly as it automatically switches to HDR.

Thanks for the quick replies by the way!
When MadVR does the HDR->SDR conversion it still reports what metadata say in the file...next to matrix BT.709 and primaries BT.709, does it say "(says upstream)" or "(best guess)"?
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Old 3rd January 2018, 20:25   #48030  |  Link
Neo-XP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d3rd3vil View Post
Still no Dolby Vision passthrough
Stop this Dolby Vision spam bullshit in this thread FFS

Every single post : https://forum.doom9.org/search.php?searchid=8039934

STOP

Last edited by Neo-XP; 3rd January 2018 at 20:48.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 20:34   #48031  |  Link
lvqcl
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From this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3rd3vil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Support won't come sooner the more you bother devs about it, you know.
Thats EXACTLY the opposite of what I am thinking. You gotta ask and hurry people in every forum around the world
looks like the only way to stop him is ban.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 21:16   #48032  |  Link
hannes69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvqcl View Post
looks like the only way to stop him is ban.
Voting for this one...
Always the same few annoying people disturbing the huge reasonable rest of the community.
I´m for freedom of speech but on the other hand for other democratic principles for certain cases.
I´m voting for a ban
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Old 3rd January 2018, 21:18   #48033  |  Link
brazen1
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@Goeggel

HEVC requires hardware decoding unless you have a very strong CPU to assume the decoding. Your GTX 980 does not hardware decode. Your TV plays it because it's not using your GPU. At best you might be forcing HDR to SDR and get it to play something but it isn't ever going to be correct using that GPU. You might be software decoding using your CPU and not even know it.
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HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
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KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
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Old 3rd January 2018, 21:41   #48034  |  Link
Goeggel
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@mytbyte:
  • When playing the demos (TV automatically switching to HDR), next to matrix BT.2020 and primaries BT.2020, it says "(says upstream)".
  • When playing the movies (TV not automatically switching to HDR), next to matrix BT.709 and primaries BT.709, it says "(best guess)".

@brazen1: the CPU seems to be strong enough as it is able to play the demos and the movies without frame drops. With my limited knowledge, it looks as if madVR isn't able to extract the correct metadata from these movie files, while on the other hand the Sony TV app is able to. But that's just a guess.
How can I check whether madVR does a HDR->SDR conversion?
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Old 3rd January 2018, 22:12   #48035  |  Link
Asmodian
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If madVR says the source is BT.709 it is not doing an HDR -> SDR conversion, it is treating the BT.2020 content as if it was BT.709 so it looks washed out. This means that the file has been created incorrectly. I am not sure what the differences are or what the TV uses to switch to HDR mode but I have a lot of HDR movies in mkv (muxed directly from UHD blurays I own) which work in madVR, both Dolby Vision (in HDR10 fallback mode) and HDR10 discs.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 22:22   #48036  |  Link
brazen1
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Some TV's show HDR is enabled when it goes into the mode. Some TV's don't show this notification but you can go into the menu and see if Contrast has been maxed (or bumped to whatever your calibration is). I don't know what to look for in an OSD to see if something is converting HDR to SDR because I've never been in the scenario. I would assume if you played an HDR to SDR, the OSD would report BLANK xxxx nits value, BT.2020 ->DCI-P3. Do you see nit values? Sometimes it's best to post your entire OSD.
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KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
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Old 3rd January 2018, 22:23   #48037  |  Link
mytbyte
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@asmodian: there is mediainfo report on the file several posts earlier, all seems correct, and still, MadVR fails to read the metadata and takes a guess and concludes it's BT.709 all the way...the file, however is indeed most likely a re-encode from a UHD BD, perhaps something did get "lost in translation", but why then the TV's player reads the metadata correctly?
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Old 3rd January 2018, 22:26   #48038  |  Link
xabregas
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so im thinking in buying gtx 1060 6GB for 4k madvr upscaling and other stuff. I have the budget now. But nvidia volta gpus can be released tomorrow or next week and even not knowing anything about their specs should i wait?? Or HEVC performance wont be improved in this VOLTA cards?
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Old 3rd January 2018, 22:36   #48039  |  Link
brazen1
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His successes are .mkv test files. His failures are .iso's. The media info is an iso. I use iso and mkv. Both are successful. The difference being GPU's. An iso bitrate is also around 100Mbs. The test files around 45Mbs. The TV cannot play iso, only mkv. Consider those variables.
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HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
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Old 3rd January 2018, 22:47   #48040  |  Link
brazen1
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AIUI, Volta with madVR will be a game changer. HDMI 2.1 MAYBE. NVDecode may also be a new video decoder introduced replacing GDDR5x which should allow madVR at highest settings, even UHD, to be implemented (replacing NVCUVID). Don't know anything for sure. NVidia press conference from CES in 4 days. Maybe some details?
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HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D

Last edited by brazen1; 3rd January 2018 at 22:55.
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