MKB V4 and BD+

[evdberg]

The first HD disks with new protections are here and I see no activity or excitement on this forum. Are we just waiting for SlySoft to come with a solution, or do we not want to help Fengtoa ? Just wondering ... personally I am quite interested to figure out how BD+ works.

[Doom9]

What makes you so sure the discs use BD+? So far I've only seen a lot of speculation, and seeing that no current software is able to deal with the latest AACS update, we lack confirmation that a properly ripped Fox disc really is still unplayable.

[SuperGoof]

Originally Posted by Doom9

What makes you so sure the discs use BD+? So far I've only seen a lot of speculation, and seeing that no current software is able to deal with the latest AACS update, we lack confirmation that a properly ripped Fox disc really is still unplayable.

No. BD+ is definitely here.

Please read this post:

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread....3719#post53719

It has a link to a .rar file for "Day After Tomorrow". Please download it and have a look at dir.txt file there. You will see that this disc has a folder called "BDSVM". You can also see what files it contains. I think "SVM" means "Secure Virtual Machine". It's indeed BD+.

[oeschmar]

Originally Posted by SuperGoof

I think "SVM" means "Secure Virtual Machine".

Yes, secure virtual machine.

Sony has some patents on it:
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...FIELD2=&d=PG01

[lightshadow]

Originally Posted by oeschmar

Yes, secure virtual machine.

By Virtual Machine I don't suppose it means what we relate to a VM from e.g. Java, right?

[SuperGoof]

Originally Posted by lightshadow

By Virtual Machine I don't suppose it means what we relate to a VM from e.g. Java, right?

No. According to Peer from Slysoft, BD+ is not Java at all:

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread....4419#post44419

[FoxDisc]

The AACSLA claims they have expired PDVD keys as of September 7. (They also say they have turned on "proactive renewal" automatic key expiration.)

Are there any released HD DVD disks with an MKB v4? BD+ can be implemented independently of the MKB update/revocation processing of AACS. Do we know for certain if the new BD+ disks are the new MKB v4?

[gioowe]

It seems they revoked some more hosts.

V3 =

         ===============================================
         RECORD >>> Host Revocation (3.2.5.3)
         ===============================================
000000C                                      21             Record Type                                            OK
-------  -----------------------------------------------
000000D                                         00 00 64    Record Size                                            OK
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000010  00 00 00 06                                        Total Number of Entries        = 6                     OK
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000014              00 00 00 06                            Number of Entries in Block #1  = 6                     OK
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000018                          00 09 FF FF 00 00 00 0B    Revocation #1                  = FFFF0000000B..0014    --
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000020  00 02 FF FF 00 00 00 21                            Revocation #2                  = FFFF00000021..0023    --
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000028                          00 03 FF FF 00 00 00 26    Revocation #3                  = FFFF00000026..0029    --
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000030  00 03 FF FF 00 00 00 35                            Revocation #4                  = FFFF00000035..0038    --
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000038                          00 02 FF FF 00 00 00 4E    Revocation #5                  = FFFF0000004E..0050    --
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000040  00 03 FF FF 00 00 00 54                            Revocation #6                  = FFFF00000054..0057    --
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000048                          33 6E D8 52 52 54 10 75
0000050  4F 0D 12 21 EC 3B C4 25 C6 21 E3 B5 80 EF 60 67
0000060  3F AC EC FB AD 3B D7 0D EC 70 6B 70 C4 E8 AF 87    Signature of Block                                     VERIFIED
-------  -----------------------------------------------

V4 =

         ===============================================
         RECORD >>> Host Revocation (3.2.5.3)
         ===============================================
000000C                                      21             Record Type                                            OK
-------  -----------------------------------------------
000000D                                         00 00 64    Record Size                                            OK
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000010  00 00 00 06                                        Total Number of Entries        = 6                     OK
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000014              00 00 00 06                            Number of Entries in Block #1  = 6                     OK
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000018                          00 09 FF FF 00 00 00 0B    Revocation #1                  = FFFF0000000B..0014    --
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000020  00 08 FF FF 00 00 00 21                            Revocation #2                  = FFFF00000021..0029    --
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000028                          00 03 FF FF 00 00 00 35    Revocation #3                  = FFFF00000035..0038    --
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000030  00 04 FF FF 00 00 00 4E                            Revocation #4                  = FFFF0000004E..0052    --
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000038                          00 03 FF FF 00 00 00 54    Revocation #5                  = FFFF00000054..0057    --
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000040  00 03 FF FF 00 00 00 5E                            Revocation #6                  = FFFF0000005E..0061    --
-------  -----------------------------------------------
0000048                          0E 96 07 86 79 CE 33 98
0000050  EC 6E 5A 0A 5E F7 E3 E1 D4 BE 50 96 3C 72 CE 1C
0000060  39 84 09 45 01 89 9F 4D 30 C0 B2 F2 70 AB 07 B7    Signature of Block                                     VERIFIED
-------  -----------------------------------------------

[bcrabl]

Hope somebody would find a HD DVD standalone device key. Then we could buy a little more time before they found the key (implement sequence keys I think)

[FoxDisc]

Originally Posted by bcrabl

Hope somebody would find a HD DVD standalone device key. Then we could buy a little more time before they found the key (implement sequence keys I think)

Without commenting on whether someone has already found each and every one of the keys in a hardware player (or not), it's not clear having those keys would be useful or that releasing them now would do any good:

1) No one has found an HD-DVD disc that uses a V4 MKB and keys from an HD DVD hardware player won't help with the BD+ issue. (I'm assuming the V4 MKB quoted above is from the referenced BD+ disc not an HD)

2) Even if someone released the keys from a stand alone HD DVD, there is still the KCD problem. KCD was intended to prevent standalone keys from being used with software players. The KCD can be read with the XBOX drive hacks, but as far as I know there's no decrypting software out yet that will let you enter the KCD.

3) PowerDVD may get cracked for the HD-DVD (or may already be cracked for all I know) before anyone gets any HD-DVD discs that need the the keys.

[greath]

Originally Posted by FoxDisc

The KCD can be read with the XBOX drive hacks, but as far as I know there's no decrypting software out yet that will let you enter the KCD.

Can it? I thought that the way to read the KCD was "secret" and was one of the only hidden parts of the AACS specification.

[FoxDisc]

Originally Posted by greath

Can it? I thought that the way to read the KCD was "secret" and was one of the only hidden parts of the AACS specification.

The KCD is intended for use only by hardware standalone players. It's stored on each disc in a way that can't be read by a standard HD-DVD drive when the AACS authentication session is established with a software player. That means that (in theory) a player like PDVD can't use stolen hardware keys since the PDVD player can't ask the drive to give it the KCD data on the disc it would need to use the stolen hardware key.

However, the XBOX drive is unusual in that it has a hardware player built into it. It's not a standard HD-DVD drive intended only for installation in a computer. That design lets Microsoft hand off the whole player task to the drive manufacturer when the drive is in the XBOX. It also means that an XBOX does not have to go through a standard AACS software player<->disc drive authentication session (which would prohibit reading the KCD and would require that the XBOX have software player keys built into it and Microsoft comply with the same terms that other software player manufacturers do - like constant key revocation, proactive renewal, etc.).

Instead, the XBOX drive *is* a hardware player (stored in its firmware), and unlike a standard HD-DVD add-on drive it *can* read the KCD. The XBOX hack that broke the volume ID also broke the KCD. So, bottom line, yes, it can read the KCD.

edit: To be clear - the XBOX drive also functions like a standard HD-DVD drive when a software player talks to it. PDVD can't ask the drive to give it the KCD since PDVD enters into a standard AACS authenticated session with the drive.

The KCD can be used to generate the necessary keys if you have hardware player keys - it's not a hard problem - so hardware keys are useful if you have the KCD. If Slysoft obtains hardware keys, and wants to use them, their customer will need an XBOX drive, or they will need to put the KCD into their software database. Again, those aren't hard problems.

[mrazzido]

i wonder why sonys spiderman 1 2 3 bluray has no new protection works fine , i try to get any BD+ disc and test then

[SuperGoof]

Originally Posted by mrazzido

i wonder why sonys spiderman 1 2 3 bluray has no new protection works fine , i try to get any BD+ disc and test then

Spider-Man discs are the most weird of all. They don't have BD+, don't even have new MKB (decrypted fine with existing tools), and yet PowerDVD Ultra 3104a does not play them from disc. Only does when ripped to hard drive... I got new version from Cyberlink today, will test tonight whether they fixed this or not.

[greath]

Strange that the new MKB has been released so quickly. When they announced that it was changed I thought that the first release with it would be Transformers. So it's a surprise to see that Fox's discs are the first to use it.

[Thunderbolt8]

fantastic four: silver surfer is also said to be BD+

[Ryokurin]

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1035 Fantastic Four 2 and The Day After Tomorrow seem to be the first. Samsung's BDP-1200 and LG's BH100 can't play the disks at all, errors and stutter on Samsung's BDP-1000, playable on PS3 and others but some machines are having up to two minutes of load time.

edit: checking avsforum, it seems that the only one is the day after tomorrow, where some BD+ folders can be found when looking at the disk structure. Both disks do have the two minute load time on a bunch of players however.

[greath]

Originally Posted by Ryokurin

[url]Both disks do have the two minute load time on a bunch of players however.

That's kind of Fox. It gives you time to have a toilet break before the movie starts.............

[SuperGoof]

Originally Posted by Ryokurin

checking avsforum, it seems that the only one is the day after tomorrow

No, "Fantastic Four 2" also has BD+. The same person who posted info on "Day After Tomorrow" now posted it on Fantastic Four 2. And this movie also has BDSVM folder on disc.

See http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread....4988#post54988

[evdberg]

1) No one has found an HD-DVD disc that uses a V4 MKB

Evan Almighty seems to have MKB V4.