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19th June 2003, 20:03 | #21 | Link | |
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Maybe when the parser is finished someone else could create decoder filters for the other codecss using the DLLs from Helix. How many different codecs does Real Media have? I know that there is Real Video 1, Real Video 2 and Real Video 3 and Real Video 9, but there must be somewhat in between, waht are the "G2" codecs for example? Are all codecs completly except RV1 (H.263) properitary? I know there are also two different Real Audio 8, "RA8" and "RA 8", "RA 8" is Atrac3. Is there a full list somewhere? That is a other bad thing I hate in Real, could it be possible to separate all codecs, that bitrate setting and used codec is separated. Maybe in "Advanced Mode" and could it be possible to encode in _all_ codecs, not only the newest, maybe for compability with (very) old Real Players. |
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20th June 2003, 02:15 | #23 | Link |
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@S_O
Why would you want to encode in old format? RV9 is the best in RV serie. RP8 can play it too.
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20th June 2003, 03:57 | #24 | Link | |
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@S_O RealProducer 8.5 may be able to back encode to RV5, possibly. I still don't know why you'd want to back encode that far. Tell your audience to update their freaking player |
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20th June 2003, 04:00 | #25 | Link |
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the freeplayer link has been corrected. they had changed it such that without a certain field added to the URL it would re-direct to the default page, and my link did not include this field. However, it has now been changed back to not require this field.
http://www.real.com/freeplayer/?rppr=d9 [IE will still download via ActiveX control] If this takes you to the "upsell" page after clicking on the download link for any platform, let me know and I will update.
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20th June 2003, 04:32 | #26 | Link | |
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@S_O:
RealVideo codecs listed by 4cc code: rv10 : RealVideo 1.0 aka RealVideo 5 rv20 : RealVideo G2 and RealVideo G2+SVT rv30 : RealVideo 8 rv40 : RealVideo 9 I could explain the version numbering, but it would take a long time, and everybody would have lost interest by the end. There are two different RealAudio 8 music codecs: RealAudio "native" used for 96 kbps and below. RealAudio ATRAC3 used for > 96 kbps. There is also a list of voice codecs. For a complete list of audio codecs, please see http://service.real.com/help/library...r/Producer.htm Click on the "RealAudio Codec Reference" link in the left column. Quote:
Here is the spec for the upcoming Producer 9.2 and all its new features: https://helix-producer.helixcommunit...ease/index.htm
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This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion. Last edited by karl_lillevold; 20th June 2003 at 16:15. |
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20th June 2003, 12:43 | #27 | Link | |
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20th June 2003, 13:23 | #28 | Link |
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@karl.
Karl, i just wanted to say thank you for your involvment in our board, your very valuable contributions, and your calmness. i wish an MS guy (amir?) would hang out here and help people as much as you do, and also the DivX ppl started showing up lately (Darrius).
thank you again, and keep up the good work (but be carefull, we don't want u kicked out of REAL for making too 'liberal' posts ) cheers mate avih. |
20th June 2003, 15:53 | #29 | Link | |
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But for the audio codecs I still donīt have a complete list, what I got now: 14_4: Real Audio 1? (open-source decoder avaible?!) 28_8: Real Audio 2? (open-source decoder avaible?!) dnet: Real Audio 3? (open-source decoder avaible?!) sipr: Voice Codec? cook: Real Audio 8? atrc: Atrac3 ralf: Real Audio Lossless Format whrl: Real Multichannel Audio vorbis: Vorbis Which codecs are missing? What is wrong? Are all codecs with the identifier "cook" for example bitstream-compatible, or maybe only downward-compatible? Here is a player, containing open-source decoder for Real Audio 1, 2 and 3: http://www.honeypot.net/audio/ What is the differnce Real Audio 1/2/3? Does they have different bitstreams, or the same codec at different bitrate? Edit: Also found 14_4, 28_8 and dnet. Last edited by S_O; 20th June 2003 at 17:53. |
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20th June 2003, 16:11 | #30 | Link | |
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20th June 2003, 16:17 | #31 | Link |
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actually, RealVideo 1.0, the first /video/ version was also known as RealVideo 5. RealVideo G2 and G2+SVT (Scalable Video Technology) were bitstream compatible, and you can also call them '6' and '7' but those version numbers were not really used much. Still, there are only 4 codec flavors, as listed above. See, I said it was a long story...
EDIT: ..and we plan on sticking with RV9 for a while, and continue to improve it, as can be seen from RV9-EHQ, which in terms of video quality per bitrate, or compression efficiency, outperforms even H.264. more info on audio codecs shortly.
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20th June 2003, 17:37 | #32 | Link |
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@Karl
I'd like to read more about Helix Producer Activex control SDK (Paragraph-4, ActiveX Control Feature Specification .) but the link seem to be dead (Error-404), can you please check it out?. Thanks! |
20th June 2003, 17:43 | #33 | Link |
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Audio codecs:
cook: RealAudio, partly named after developer (office next to mine) atrc: ATRAC3 sipr: Sipro voice codec ralf: RealAudio Lossless format (new in Producer 9.2 *) whrl: RealAudio Multi-channel (new in Producer 9.2 *) vorbis: indeed, true Vorbis, needs DLLs from Xiph *) Neither ralf nor whrl will play in existing players. whrl may change its 4cc code to cook, and be integrated in existing cook instead of residing in its own DLL. All cook flavors are compatible, the different flavors are different bitrates. RA 1/2/3 are all very different codecs, the bitstreams are different and are not compatible with each other or RA8. @avih: thanks for your feedback and concern! The only real criticism I have posted is against the player web trap, which really annoys me, and I am not going to take that back. There is enough advertising and upsell elsewhere, and passing along where to get a free player should not involve telling people "and then look for the little link in the upper right corner that says Free Player". It currently is a very nice player, with cool features, if people took the time to try it out, and an un-deserved bad reputation, that should not be tarnished by the initial impression of an offensive sales pitch page making it hard to get. The upcoming version is really nice, but can't say anything about that yet. Fortunately the freeplayer link, which was broken for a while, now again works, without any un-necessary re-directions.
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This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion. Last edited by karl_lillevold; 21st June 2003 at 04:36. |
20th June 2003, 18:56 | #34 | Link | |
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btw are cook'ers being updated sometimes, or they remnais the same? btw2 have anybody compared 96 cook vs 94 atrac? at lest for me atrac sounds better |
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21st June 2003, 01:57 | #35 | Link | |
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https://helix-producer.helixcommunit...iveX/index.htm I have not tried using this myself, but it is pretty useful, according to feedback that has passed me by.
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21st June 2003, 13:42 | #37 | Link |
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Machine: Celereon 1.7 GHz, 384 MB RAM, Windows XP Pro
Player: Windows Media Player 6.4 Startup: 3.764 SVCD: 15.596 (* 6.104 after minimizing/restoring) CPU: 26-35% Player: Windows Media Player 9 Startup: 3.300 SVCD: 12.472 CPU: 26-33 % Player: RealOne V2 (player only!) Startup: 4.228 SVCD: 9.968 CPU: 25-35% Player: WinDVD 3.0 Startup: 14.908 SVCD: 13.232 (* 7.076 after minimizing/restoring) CPU: 33-47% (*) you can reduce the memory load by minimizing and then restoring the player. And of course there's a bunch of others to try. On at least my system RealOne is not the resource hog it's made out to be. With 384 MB RAM to go around, on system startup usually 127 MB distributed among "stuff" I have enough here to not worry about 2 MB more or less. On my first Pentium-100 with 32KB RAM it would have mattered to me - not now. WMP 6.4 and WinDVD actually seem to consume more RAM on my system unless I would minimize/restore them. I'm sure not many of us are in the habbit of doing so before watching a movie! If I were aggresively opposed to the player I would simply not use it. But I have 90 GB of HD space in my system so I would just install it for the codecs and forget about it. Again, on my first Pentium-100 with 1 GB HD (ouch) it would have mattered, now it doesn't. OK, I have to admit I'm a sucker for new "toys" although I do trash them if they don't live up to everyday demands. RealOne was a nice toy. During the Gulf War II I often would have the news in the player on top while browsing in the attached browser (@ Karl: now that thing produces way too much script errors...). I grew to like it and have *gasp* purchased the plus version. I use it daily and love it. I use the media library as well, having a quick overview of what goodies I have on my HD's. As a devoted Musicmatch Jukebox user it means a lot to me that it drew me away from that player (although I still use it to super-tag a bunch of MP3's). Signing in for a player? I never notice it. I have a DSL connection and when I start the player, bang, there it is. The sign in feature is of course much more fun if you would have one of the premium content subscriptions. I had the 30 day free trial and it's damned handy to be at another computer at another location, sign in to a RealOne player and the player goes into Plus mode and you can reach your subscription content. (Of course I dropped out after the trial: premium content shouldn't just mean that you pay for it - it should mean it's good content that's worth 10 expensive US dollars a month!). There are only a few programs that make it through an....uh... "extended" trial period. RealOne is one of the programs that got my vote by receiving my money. It joined ranks with WinRAR, Newsbin, Forte Agent and some other stuff. I'm looking forward to V3 :-) Ruud
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22nd June 2003, 21:26 | #38 | Link |
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After reading all this, I finnaly uninstalled Real Player 8 and installed RealOne 2 Gold. I must say, the player is better than I expected. I donīt like the design, but it loads faster than RP8 and donīt want you to register every start-up.
One thing, I downloaded this 8MB player and then, after intstalling it I wanted to play something: RealOne has to download additional sofware to play this media. But at least it tells me what to download: DolbyNet(tm) Audio Codec. Now I know why the RealAudio 1/2/3 decoder has included liba52 (Dolby Digital Decoder). It seems that RealAudio 3 is simply a low bitrate version of AC3. But why cannot all codecs included in this 8MB installer? 100KB more or less doesnīt matter. |
25th June 2003, 03:51 | #39 | Link |
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@DaWolf: thanks for posting such detailed information and good feedback! R1P's In-Mem memory usage also drops significantly after a minimize/restore.. This must be a Win2K/XP thing.. Maybe it just swaps out pages not used for a while. Igor Arsenin's TaskInfo 2003 shows that the Total Memory use stays the same thoug, both for WMP and R1P, during the minimize/restore cycle.
@S_O: The big leap! Glad it turned out okay.
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