Codec for Anime?

dvdpunk81 · 18th December 2001, 09:56

Which codec do most of you people find best for encoding anime? I tried encoding Akira w/ GKnot and divx 4.11 and the results were disappointing. Usually GKnot produces movies within 3% of the desired file size, but Akira ended up being over 25% bigger than the file size I picked. In addition, the quality wasn't that great.

Should I try windows media, real, or what?

Thanks.

M-M-C · 18th December 2001, 14:04

i got the same problem with encoding akira... it's 10% bigger than the desired filesize

isnt there a way to fix it?
btw, i used 2-pass

Peters · 18th December 2001, 20:45

Make a try with VP3 codec (free) at http://www.vp3.com

I find this codec much better for anime than Divx

MxxCon · 19th December 2001, 00:28

go with divx 3.11

bb · 19th December 2001, 13:02

I think something like a GIF-based codec would be appropriate for anime. Probably it could be coded similar to Huffyuv, but with GIF's compression algorithm. I think so far it would be great for capturing anime.

One step further you could have some keyframe / delta frame mechanism similar to MPEG.

Does anybody know of such a codec, or is anybody willing to implement it?

bb

slavickas · 19th December 2001, 15:04

Quote:

Originally posted by bb
I think something like a GIF-based codec would be appropriate for anime. Probably it could be coded similar to Huffyuv, but with GIF's compression algorithm. I think so far it would be great for capturing anime.
bb

gif's compression (lzw) is VERY outdated better try vp3

bb · 20th December 2001, 09:47

Quote:

Originally posted by slavickas

gif's compression (lzw) is VERY outdated better try vp3

Well, it uses a palette of 256 colors only, but it can compress lossless except the colors. And I can imagine it's really good for compressing anime with large unicolor regions. It wouldn't mess up the sharp edges found everywhere in animes.

And my post was just a suggestion for coders who want to give it a try, because as far as I know such a codec doesn't exist yet. Especially with motion search algo included.

VP3 is an MPEG4 codec, and MPEG codecs need a lot of bits for coding sharp edges. You'll have to deal with artefacts that are much more visible in anime than in other films. And I don't think MPEG exploits the compressibility of animes very well (as I said: large regions with uniform colors, but sharp edges).

Please don't misunderstand me: IMHO VP3 is a very good codec, although it lacks two-pass encoding. I'd prefer it for low bitrate encoding like 500 kbps.

bb

-h · 20th December 2001, 10:34

> Well, it uses a palette of 256 colors only, but it can compress lossless except the colors. And I can imagine it's really good for compressing anime with large unicolor regions. It wouldn't mess up the sharp edges found everywhere in animes.

First you'd have to find an anime with large unicolor regions (aka pre-filtered, DCTs introduce artifacts that gif would choke on). The animated gif format already caters for a rudimentary form of motion compensation, but i think the compression ratio would be much less than you'd expect. Just do a google search for 'avi2gif' and you'll find some tools capable of the conversion.

-h

ProfDrMorph · 20th December 2001, 12:09

Hmmm many more modern animes use computer generated graphics. Others use high detailed backgrounds. So I don't think that 256 colors aren't enough for every frame. The codec should at least a variable color palette to get closer to the original image. But even with a variable palette you'll get problems.

DrFrag · 21st December 2001, 16:02

Forget about using 256 colour compression (if you can even find it). On an obsolete 256 colour display, you either get extreme dithering or a lot of flicker (because it has to change the colour palette every frame). On a 16 or 24 bit colour display, you're better off using 16/24 bit colour anyway. Look how much smaller JPG files are than GIF - same applies to video compression.

As for a codec, I have found that the Divx 3.11 Fast Motion Codec gets the best results, due to the amount of change in each frame in anime. Compared to the other 3.11 Codec (slow? smooth? I can't remember), if you aim for the same file size you get much better quality using the Fast Motion Codec.

BUT the maximum quality of the Fast Motion Codec is inferior to the other one, so it depends on what quality you want to put up with.

For a 320x240 anime, encoded at 6000kps Fast Codec, 1 key frame per second, it works out to around 100MB per 20 minues (give or take 40% depending on the anime style). This is slightly lower than TV quality.
If you want higher quality, you'll have to go for the newer divx codecs. I've only just downloaded v4.12 so I haven't had a chance to test it yet. For full movie encoding, you can probably use the higher quality and fit it on one CD, since anime movies are generally shorter than regular movies.

Gin_Quaker · 30th December 2001, 05:18

i had the same problem with akira, although i was using virtual dub and VFAPI. I was getting a rather larger file size with very bad quality. I then decided to make it a 2 CD rip and it came out fine. So far this is the only movie i have ever had to do a 2 cd rip with.

Hmm, i also have come across a posting in this board about a sbc divx 4.12 editor. http://divx4log.narod.ru/

thats all i have to say

30th December 2001, 09:53

i encoded akira onto 2 cds and the estimate came out a little above than what the bitcalc said. so i had to cut off the intro

from experience, i found that it's always good to take off 10 or 20 bits of what the calc says. this way, my movies always comes to be just the right size or smaller. i encode a lot of anime and i find that it's always better to do 2 episodes per cd than trying to cram 4 episodes. this applies for most animated anime (ie lain, princess monoke) however i discover others, such as kenshine (tv series), where the anime quality isn't so great to begin, it's possible to put 4 episodes per cd without degration from the orignial. just my 2 cents...
btw i use divx4

ThePanda · 6th January 2002, 19:56

for anime i believe you can greatly improve the compression ratio by filtering the video before compression (I use temporal smoother before resizing and smart smoother after, maybe this new "2D Cleaner (Optimized)" is better though, I haven't tried it yet). The only thing I don't like is that I can often see a lot of blocks on black screens; is there any way to get rid of this? I use divx4 btw

18th December 2001, 09:56	#1 \| Link
dvdpunk81 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 13	Codec for Anime? Which codec do most of you people find best for encoding anime? I tried encoding Akira w/ GKnot and divx 4.11 and the results were disappointing. Usually GKnot produces movies within 3% of the desired file size, but Akira ended up being over 25% bigger than the file size I picked. In addition, the quality wasn't that great. Should I try windows media, real, or what? Thanks. __________________ my DVD collection --> http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=Zentraedi home entertainment system --> http://home.attbi.com/~zentraedi/DSCN0462.jpg

19th December 2001, 00:28	#4 \| Link
MxxCon Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 161	go with divx 3.11 __________________ [Sig removed by administrator: Signature can not exceed 20GB]

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18th December 2001, 14:04	#2 \| Link
M-M-C Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 7	i got the same problem with encoding akira... it's 10% bigger than the desired filesize isnt there a way to fix it? btw, i used 2-pass

18th December 2001, 20:45	#3 \| Link
Peters Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: France Posts: 138	Make a try with VP3 codec (free) at http://www.vp3.com I find this codec much better for anime than Divx

19th December 2001, 13:02	#5 \| Link
bb Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 2,665	I think something like a GIF-based codec would be appropriate for anime. Probably it could be coded similar to Huffyuv, but with GIF's compression algorithm. I think so far it would be great for capturing anime. One step further you could have some keyframe / delta frame mechanism similar to MPEG. Does anybody know of such a codec, or is anybody willing to implement it? bb

20th December 2001, 10:34	#8 \| Link
-h Kilted Yaksman Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,303	> Well, it uses a palette of 256 colors only, but it can compress lossless except the colors. And I can imagine it's really good for compressing anime with large unicolor regions. It wouldn't mess up the sharp edges found everywhere in animes. First you'd have to find an anime with large unicolor regions (aka pre-filtered, DCTs introduce artifacts that gif would choke on). The animated gif format already caters for a rudimentary form of motion compensation, but i think the compression ratio would be much less than you'd expect. Just do a google search for 'avi2gif' and you'll find some tools capable of the conversion. -h

20th December 2001, 12:09	#9 \| Link
ProfDrMorph fresh brains! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 195	Hmmm many more modern animes use computer generated graphics. Others use high detailed backgrounds. So I don't think that 256 colors aren't enough for every frame. The codec should at least a variable color palette to get closer to the original image. But even with a variable palette you'll get problems.

21st December 2001, 16:02	#10 \| Link
DrFrag Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Australia Posts: 1	Forget about using 256 colour compression (if you can even find it). On an obsolete 256 colour display, you either get extreme dithering or a lot of flicker (because it has to change the colour palette every frame). On a 16 or 24 bit colour display, you're better off using 16/24 bit colour anyway. Look how much smaller JPG files are than GIF - same applies to video compression. As for a codec, I have found that the Divx 3.11 Fast Motion Codec gets the best results, due to the amount of change in each frame in anime. Compared to the other 3.11 Codec (slow? smooth? I can't remember), if you aim for the same file size you get much better quality using the Fast Motion Codec. BUT the maximum quality of the Fast Motion Codec is inferior to the other one, so it depends on what quality you want to put up with. For a 320x240 anime, encoded at 6000kps Fast Codec, 1 key frame per second, it works out to around 100MB per 20 minues (give or take 40% depending on the anime style). This is slightly lower than TV quality. If you want higher quality, you'll have to go for the newer divx codecs. I've only just downloaded v4.12 so I haven't had a chance to test it yet. For full movie encoding, you can probably use the higher quality and fit it on one CD, since anime movies are generally shorter than regular movies.

30th December 2001, 05:18	#11 \| Link
Gin_Quaker Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 14	i had the same problem with akira, although i was using virtual dub and VFAPI. I was getting a rather larger file size with very bad quality. I then decided to make it a 2 CD rip and it came out fine. So far this is the only movie i have ever had to do a 2 cd rip with. Hmm, i also have come across a posting in this board about a sbc divx 4.12 editor. http://divx4log.narod.ru/ thats all i have to say

30th December 2001, 09:53	#12 \| Link
yangus Guest Posts: n/a	i encoded akira onto 2 cds and the estimate came out a little above than what the bitcalc said. so i had to cut off the intro from experience, i found that it's always good to take off 10 or 20 bits of what the calc says. this way, my movies always comes to be just the right size or smaller. i encode a lot of anime and i find that it's always better to do 2 episodes per cd than trying to cram 4 episodes. this applies for most animated anime (ie lain, princess monoke) however i discover others, such as kenshine (tv series), where the anime quality isn't so great to begin, it's possible to put 4 episodes per cd without degration from the orignial. just my 2 cents... btw i use divx4

6th January 2002, 19:56	#13 \| Link
ThePanda Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 117	for anime i believe you can greatly improve the compression ratio by filtering the video before compression (I use temporal smoother before resizing and smart smoother after, maybe this new "2D Cleaner (Optimized)" is better though, I haven't tried it yet). The only thing I don't like is that I can often see a lot of blocks on black screens; is there any way to get rid of this? I use divx4 btw