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Old 3rd October 2005, 05:25   #21  |  Link
bac
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I did a burn with recordnow, and it seems like the layer break was done right. But how can I tell if the burn really put the physical layer break in the right spot? After the burn, dvddecrypter tells me the # of sectors for the first layer, and ifoedit shows the logical layer break (and it was preserved). But how can I find out the sector # for the logical layer break (or otherwise truly verify it)? Playback looks good at the logical layer break, but that might not be where the real layer change is.
Never mind: I summed up the VTS sector offset, the cell sector offset, and a few others, as reported by ifoedit, and got a match.

Last edited by bac; 3rd October 2005 at 08:10.
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Old 3rd October 2005, 14:45   #22  |  Link
Taelon
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For anyone else wondering, LUK! Outlined a method to calculate the layer break in this thread
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Old 3rd October 2005, 16:54   #23  |  Link
ron spencer
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This is good news for LUK....if one chooses a layer break in PGCEdit and makes the ISO in PGCEdit what will happen with IMGBurn? That is, will IMGBurn just read the layer break from the ISO made or will you manually have to specify the layer break in IMGBurn like with DVDD?
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Old 4th October 2005, 08:34   #24  |  Link
r0lZ
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I have already asked this question to LUK!
Don't worry, ImgBurn will not ask for the layer break position if it is already specified, and is valid.
Furthermore, LUK! has added a /LAYERBREAK command line option in ImgBurn. Therefore, I have removed the trick with the registry settings, when the burn program is ImgBurn. Of course, it is still used with DVDD.
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Old 4th October 2005, 08:41   #25  |  Link
r0lZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bac
If I use .ifo's from dvd-9's that I have previously ripped in file mode (as opposed to .ifo's I authored) then I assume I don't need to do any patching. I know, should have ripped in .iso mode
Right again, but why do you want to rip in File mode if you don't change anything to the DVD? In this case, it is also possible to use Nero, and probably most burning apps, to do a direct copy.
In the other hand, if you use any program to change something in the IFOs or VOBs, then you must recalculate the VTS pointers. And, as far as I know, only PgcEdit is able to do that correctly, and with a GUI and a preview.
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Old 4th October 2005, 11:50   #26  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
Right again, but why do you want to rip in File mode if you don't change anything to the DVD?
Because I tend to like to disable playback of redundant splash screens, studio disclaimers, etc. And until now I was used to splitting across 2 dvds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
In this case, it is also possible to use Nero, and probably most burning apps, to do a direct copy.
I thought the point was that nero wouldn't work well for direct copies as you can't trust it to put the physical layer break where the vob says it should be. Now you're confusing me
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
In the other hand, if you use any program to change something in the IFOs or VOBs, then you must recalculate the VTS pointers. And, as far as I know, only PgcEdit is able to do that correctly, and with a GUI and a preview.
I thought ifoedit's 'get vts sectors' button did the trick. But usually, I just move the PGC post commands to pre-commands, and disable playback that way, without deleting the offending cells. Thus I don't need to adjust sector offsets (and don't have to worry about PGC commands trying to trick me by testing for register side effects)
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Old 4th October 2005, 14:41   #27  |  Link
ron spencer
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you are right r0lZ, PGCEdit is the ONLY app that has a GUI for layer break assigning....not even the exaulted Gear does that!!!

You mention a "registry" trick for layer break and DVDD...I never knew there was one...what is the trick and what is it for ? Just curious.....

I am so eager to try the PGCEdit/ImgBurn combo....any idea on release?
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Old 4th October 2005, 16:02   #28  |  Link
LIGHTNING UK!
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ImgBurn has now been released!

Not sure if the appropriate PGCEdit exists already though. r0lZ may well have been waiting for me - sorry!
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Old 4th October 2005, 16:17   #29  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bac
I thought the point was that nero wouldn't work well for direct copies as you can't trust it to put the physical layer break where the vob says it should be. Now you're confusing me
Nero should be able to do a 1:1 copy, as the layer break is probably not changed by this operation, if you don't write the DVD files to disc. You should burn 'on the fly', or an ISO created by Nero. Anyway, Nero is the worst choice to burn a DVD-Video!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bac
I thought ifoedit's 'get vts sectors' button did the trick. But usually, I just move the PGC post commands to pre-commands, and disable playback that way, without deleting the offending cells. Thus I don't need to adjust sector offsets (and don't have to worry about PGC commands trying to trick me by testing for register side effects)
IfoEdit's Get VTS Sectors do a minimal job. It is theorically sufficient for a DVD-5, but your DVD will not be protected against defects or scratches, as it is unable to add the 32K gaps needed to ensure that the IFO and the BUP are not on the same ECC block.
Also, IfoEdit cannot 'fix' the sector pointers to align the layer break properly. If you burn DVD files on a DVD 9, it's crucial!
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Old 4th October 2005, 16:23   #30  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron spencer
You mention a "registry" trick for layer break and DVDD...I never knew there was one...what is the trick and what is it for ? Just curious.....
Well, since DVDD has no CLI option to specify the layer break sector, I write it directly in his setup in the registry. DVDD load it when it starts. The problem is that, since DVDD is running in the background, PgcEdit cannot restore the original setup after the burn. I hate that, but it's the only simple workaround I've found.

Since ImgBurn has been released today, I will try it, and release PgcEdit 0.6.1 as soon as possible. Maybe today...
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Old 4th October 2005, 16:24   #31  |  Link
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yummy LUK!!!!!
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Old 4th October 2005, 19:44   #32  |  Link
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Imgburn is out !!!!

http://www.imgburn.com/
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Old 4th October 2005, 20:15   #33  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rui.m.godinho
Imgburn is out !!!!

http://www.imgburn.com/

I noticed. I wonder if there is any difference in burning with IMGBurn when creating a 1:1 DL ISO with DVD Decrypter.
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Old 4th October 2005, 20:44   #34  |  Link
rui.m.godinho
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I still cant get fine burns even with this method.

Here are 2 scans, both burned with a PX-716a 1.08 firmware with DVDD @2,4x. The .ISO is being burned from a Raid Raptor Sata controller to a primary IDE controller (PX-716a being master, nothing more plugged in the data cable):





We can consider it good burns, but my problem is that I can maintain a constant low pif like in the 1st pic before layer break.

I see in some reviews burns scans made to these media and I cant almost notice layer break on the graphic. Even from another users wich use the same drive and media used.

What I'm I doing wrong ? Do u think it's the software ? Using imgburn should solve ?
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Old 4th October 2005, 21:39   #35  |  Link
LIGHTNING UK!
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The software should have no effect. This is a drive / firmware / media issue - if an issue exists at all?!

They quality of burns from Plextor drives seems to vary on a per drive basis. I got 2 PX-712A from the same batch - with serial numbers one after the other. One drive produced significantly better burns than the other.

Unless you're having problems reading the discs in your players, what's the big deal?

There's life beyond PIE/PIF scans you know
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Old 4th October 2005, 21:46   #36  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIGHTNING UK!
There's life beyond PIE/PIF scans you know
I ignore them. I never had a problem with a disc playing and it doesn't mean this scans show a bad burn. The quality of the DVD player can determine how well it compensates using error correction.

I knew someone whow as obsessed with these scans and he ended up testing the DVD's more than he watched them.
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Old 28th October 2005, 12:01   #37  |  Link
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Tools Catching Up JIT (Just In Time)

Well, it appears that decent tools are becoming available just in time for DL media to drop down in price where one doesn't grit one's teeth so hard the dentist becomes not an option but nessesity....!

However, I've followed the pgcedit Burn Guide to the letter and have one major question. Understand that I've burn totally successfully using latest (final?) Rel.6 version of NERO (6.6.0.16) and Memorex 2.4 DL +R's.

When I get to step 7 in the guide ("Setting the Layer Break") the pgm completely skips over that section, going straight to the ImgBurn. The final bit on the guide ("If the layer break doesn't open...an error message will be displayed and you will need to re-author the disk") doesn't 'pop up'. My reasoning for attempting to get this methodology (in the first place) was 'look around' the structure and see '"what's up".

Latest s/w, particularly PGCEdit vr. 0.6.1, and there are small differences between the guide and the s/w, but nothing obvious/major. Perhaps this is all still 'bleeding edge', but as media costs drift below $2/disk I'm sure that many will give things a try, either with or without NERO (I ran into major problems myself with them around vr. 6.6.14 to the point of rolling back several versions until some stability was achieved on single layer) and /or PGCEdit fans.

I would 'guess' that everything must be 'okay' in this latest version, but thought after reading up all the threads dedicated to this, upon finding nothing specifically of note, I'd give a shot and see what falls out here before going the final step.

TIA
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Old 28th October 2005, 12:38   #38  |  Link
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The layer break selection window is opened only if your compilation don't fit on a single layer DVD.
So, either your compil fits on a DVD-5, or there is something wrong in your burn setups. Please verify the values of the Number of Sectors in a Single Layer DVD and in a Double Layer DVD.
Also, before launching the burn, have a look at the topmost part of the main burn window. If your DVD is too big for a DVD-5, you should see the "DVD-5 full at X %" message in red. If it is black, the LB selection window will not be opened.

Note that you cannot use Nero to burn the ISO created by PgcEdit (though I don't have tested the latest release.) Nero has the bad habit to remove the gaps between IFO or VOB and BUP files, and PgcEdit's method rely heavily on those gaps.
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Last edited by r0lZ; 28th October 2005 at 12:44.
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Old 28th October 2005, 20:30   #39  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
Also, before launching the burn, have a look at the topmost part of the main burn window. If your DVD is too big for a DVD-5, you should see the "DVD-5 full at X %" message in red. If it is black, the LB selection window will not be opened.

Note that you cannot use Nero to burn the ISO created by PgcEdit (though I don't have tested the latest release.) Nero has the bad habit to remove the gaps between IFO or VOB and BUP files, and PgcEdit's method rely heavily on those gaps.
Oh , very definately is over dvd5 size (>7.5G), the burn window definately says so, the message is in red, and the Layer Break section is not opened. And yes, I read the part about NERO removing the gaps, absolutely. The Burns I've done with NERO have been files, not ISO's, and 'just for fun' I ran the sectors check on the blank disk, and it matched what PGCEdit has as the default.

So, it's just one of those 'head scratchers' type of questions....
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Old 2nd November 2005, 21:09   #40  |  Link
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What I'm getting, and unable to track down the reason, is underneath all the windows that pop up all over the place (pgcedit, imgburn, you name it) is a small, almost hidden 'ERROR' window from PGCEdit saying "Cannot find First VMG sector". Happens on every (well all 7+ burns I've run with this pgm).

Don't know why, or what exactly it's refering to, as the VMG sectors are listed dead on the PGCEdit program window.
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