Hybrid: Input -> x264/x265/Xvid/VP8/VP9

[Music Fan]

since your source is 720x576 which normally is a PAL resolution 16x11 would be the right value, to set a mp4 standard compatible 16/9 DAR.

I don't understand how you find 16x11, I never saw that value.

[Music Fan]

probably because of the header compression (there are a bunch of threads in the forum about it)

Yes, I know that, but I'm nearly sure it used to work before and I didn't change anything in MKVmerge.

[Selur]

Yes, I know that, but I'm nearly sure it used to work before and I didn't change anything in MKVmerge.

in older version the header compression was off by default, in newer versions the compression is on by default,...

I don't understand how you find 16x11, I never saw that value.

no clue why you never saw that value, here some sources i.e.: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...27#post1058927, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standar...ion_television, http://wftp3.itu.int/av-arch/jvt-sit...x/JVT-C135.doc,...
You probably only heard of the ITU PAR Values,...

PAR by ITU-R BT.601
DAR	PAL		NTSC
4:3	128/117		4320/4739
16:9	512/351		5760/4739

PAR by MPEG
DAR	PAL	NTSC
4:3	12/11 	10/11
16:9	16/11 	40/33

[Music Fan]

in older version the header compression was off by default, in newer versions the compression is on by default,...

Ok, that's what I thought. But it should be clearly written, like in Hybrid. Because I believe that this setting is simply called "compression" and not "header compression" in the video tab, which is confusing.

You probably only heard of the ITU PAR Values

Neither one nor the other, I only know the PAR used with mpeg-2 (the codec I used for years), and for Pal 16/9, it's 1.4222 (or simply called 16/9 in most of video editors and encoders, which is actually the DAR but it works fine). And 1.0666 for 4/3.

The problem with this kind of PAR (16/11) is that it creates a non standard (or not precise) DAR.
To write 16/9 or 4/3 as DAR is better.
I tried 16x11 in Hybrid, and Mediainfo does not detect 16/9 but something close to 16/9.
That's why I believe you should add a DAR setting, or 4/3 and 16/9 PAR in place of 12/11, 16/11 ...

[Selur]

Since PAR won't change when cropping and DAR does I prefer PAR and Hybrid won't use DAR.

[Music Fan]

Since PAR won't change when cropping and DAR does

I don't understand what you mean, are you talking about the encoding part of Hybrid ? I crop with avisynth.
Anyway, if Mediainfo does not detect 4/3 or 16/9 in the MKV, there is a problem.
16/11 * 1.25 (720.576) = 1.8181 and not 1.77777 ...

[Selur]

16/11 * 1.25 (720.576) = 1.8181 and not 1.77777 ...

Yes, ITU PAR, MPEG PAR and Generic PAR do differ.
That's why Hybrid allows one to specify how the input par should be identified (Crop/Resize -> Pixel Aspect Ratio (PAR) -> Force input PAR type) and also allows one to specify the output PAR.

Generic PAR

DAR  	PAL 	NTSC
4:3 	16/15 	8/9
16:9 	64/45 	32/27

PAL 16/9 ITU: 512/351 = 1,4586894586894586894586894586895
PAL 16/9 MPEG: 16/11= 1,4545454545454545454545454545455
PAL 16/9 Generic: 64/45 = 1,4222222222222222222222222222222
PAL 16/9 ITU * 1,25 = 1,8233618233618233618233618233619
PAL 16/9 MPEG * 1,25 = 1,8181818181818181818181818181818
PAL 16/9 Generic * 1,25 = 1,7777777777777777777777777777778

=> When doing format conversions one should know about PARs.
If MediaInfo only reports 16/9 for a generic 16/9 PAR you might want to use the appropriate generic PAR, if it matters to you that MediaInfo reports 16/9.

Cu Selur

[Music Fan]

For me, only what you call "generic" PAR counts. A video has to be displayed in 4/3 or 16/9 (if the PAR is not 1:1, which is nearly always the case with Divx), so I don't know what could happen with a different PAR, but I guess that my player needs to know if he has to display the 720.576 in 4/3 or 16/9.

When doing format conversions one should know about PARs.

Yes, but after the conversion, whatever we did on picture (crop, resize), when the picture is in 720.576 (or 720.480), I don't understand why we would need more than 2 PARs.
But I'm in a standalone players logical, not in PC logical. I play all my videos on standalone players.

[Selur]

For me, only what you call "generic" PAR counts.

Okay, than stick to the 'Generic PAR'-table I posted and you should be fine.


Cu Selur

[Music Fan]

Ok, thanks.
But do you agree with my reasoning about the 2 PARs for standalone players, or do I forget anything ?

[Selur]

That totally depends on the stand alone player.
If it only 'likes' generic PARs you are right, if it on the other hand only 'likes' MPEG or ITU PARs you are wrong. -> I like to keep it flexible.

[Music Fan]

Ok, so it's no so simple than what I thought.
Do you believe that for dvd (in mpeg-2), other PARs than generic PARs could be necessary and recognized (by players and authoring log), or it's only for MKV ?
I made a lot of dvd for years, and I always chose 4/3 or 16/9.

[Selur]

Ok, so it's no so simple than what I thought.

Nope, never was.

I made a lot of dvd for years, and I always chose 4/3 or 16/9.

Which depending on the software you used probably ment that ITU or Generic PAR was used in the background.
also see and read: http://lipas.uwasa.fi/~f76998/video/conversion/

-> unless you check it visually you normally really don't know if the PAR values are set correctly or if the content you handle is a bit off (aspect ratio wise ).
Most people really don't care about ITU/MPEG/Generic PAR, live with the fact that the picture might be slightly off and just use what their tools offer.
(to be frank it really is a nightmare especially if you mix material form different sources, i.e. dvd, web material, video cam, cg and tv broadcast and simple combine them without thinking)

Cu Selur

[Music Fan]

it really is a nightmare especially if you mix material form different sources

Yes, I saw that when I made video editing of a band's show filmed by 2 cameras, and the image of 1 camera (the most expensive) contained little vertical black bars on right and left, and there was no black bars on the other image.
I guess it was linked to the PAR.
It was problematic in some effects (picture in picture with changing size).
I let it like that. I don't know if there was a solution to avoid that. Maybe a resize of the avi (DV) file with cropping before to make edition ?

[fusebyte]

Can someone show me best settings x264 and soft settings to transcode/encode 1080i HDTV Stream (MPEG-TS) 29.970 to MKV ( real fps 23.976 progressive or remain interlaced if possible) with IBRYD ?
I tried with MEDIACODER_x64, file.MKV output result syncronized with good video quality , the main movie problem sometimes is fluid sometimes had massive micro stuttering., while the 1080i is very fluid.

Many thanks

Regards

[Selur]

1. what's IBRYD ?
2. Quality wise the best way is probably not to transcode/encoder at all but to just remux. (file size will shrink a bit due too smaller container overhead and loss of stuffing bits, but since audio&video remain untouched, quality should be the same as the input)
3.to avoid problems see forum rule no. 12

Cu Selur

[fusebyte]

1. what's IBRYD ?

I mean Hybrid, pardon.

2. Right. I need only a way to change 1080i fps 29.970 ( time 2h.03m.00s) to 1080i fps 23.976 (time 2h.03m.00s) to insert new language audio track.

There is a GUI that only removes pulldown and leave everything else as is?
TSMUXER remove pulldown but sometime the box remain greyed out (why) and can't remove it.


tk's, Fuse

[Selur]

There is a GUI that only removes pulldown and leave everything else as is?

Hybrid will always reencode when removing pulldown.
tsMuxeR would have been my guess,... may be it's possible with eac3to,..

TSMUXER remove pulldown but sometime the box remain greyed out (why) and can't remove it.

Might be because, the source is not telecined,...

Cu Selur

[Music Fan]

I had already tried to remove pulldown with TSMuxer, but it didn't always work, even with files supposed to be in 23.976 fps with a 3:2 pulldown flag (we can see it with Gspot). In this case, it's better to let it flagged. Or Gspot could be sometimes wrong.
But some BD players can make reverse 3:2 pulldown (maybe not with mkv but with AVCHD and/or BD).

[fusebyte]

may be it's possible with eac3to,..

eac3to -strippulldown

Is this the right command line to use?
Anything else to add?

I would try this Utility too > Deinterlacing QTGMC Script <
using this script
DirectShowSource("C:\My.mkv")
QTGMC( Preset="Slow", InputType= 1, SourceMatch=3, Lossless=2 )

# DGDecode_mpeg2source, FFVideoSource, AviSource, whatever your source requires
# InputType=1 for plain progressive, InputType=2,3 for badly deinterlaced material (discard bad field, try again with the other one)
#Source Match / Lossless Output
#Source match is a new feature that ensures the output is as close as possible to the source, whilst still removing the bob-shimmer or artefacts typical of other deinterlacers. Lossless #mode ensures that the source pixels are exactly in the output, but with the possibility of minor artefacts


Have 1 simply question.
How start AVS script without a dedicated GUI?
What i should use?



Thank's all