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18th April 2006, 19:58 | #101 | Link | |
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18th April 2006, 23:07 | #102 | Link |
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"The damage in this instance is irreparable, and you must remove the code from its site to stop its participation in damaging On2. Time is of the essence."
as i understand its only a DECODER that has been made, would that not make VP6.2 MORE valuable now it can be played back on opensource platforms and/or mac os x? leading more people to adopt it?
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18th April 2006, 23:21 | #103 | Link | |
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18th April 2006, 23:30 | #104 | Link |
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@rjamorim
Can you put a download counter on the link?
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19th April 2006, 00:04 | #105 | Link | |
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On2, you are reading this ... if you are reasonably sure the code was copy pasted just come out and say so (or at least let your lawyers known that using sophism reflects poorly on them and you). You will instantly get most people here on your side, me at least. I know being this harsh might seem ungratefull and biting the hand that feeds us, but you knowingly stuck your hand in a lion's den in the first place I think if you try plain words (ie. don't let the lawyers talk for you) you will find people to be much less confrontational. Last edited by MfA; 19th April 2006 at 00:10. |
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19th April 2006, 01:04 | #106 | Link | |
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But a quick glance over apache's logs tells me more than 50 people downloaded it already. |
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19th April 2006, 01:09 | #107 | Link | |||
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Here are some more excerpts from it: Quote:
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19th April 2006, 05:28 | #108 | Link |
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Even if the code did breach the DMCA, would that not only have an effect in the USA? The DMCA does not cover actions outside of the USA.
What there should be a law against is companies knowingly misusing the DMCA as a legal threat. |
19th April 2006, 08:16 | #109 | Link | |
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19th April 2006, 12:21 | #111 | Link |
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How about sweden? thepiratebay love those kind of letters
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19th April 2006, 12:43 | #112 | Link |
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http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/et...CODE.HTM#7-102
Maybe people should start reporting these attorneys? Lying about the DMCA, etc. sounds like a breech of ethics to me. |
19th April 2006, 12:56 | #113 | Link | |
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Indeed, I completely disagree with On2's strongarmed attitude so far. "We're not even sure the code is really stolen or illegal in any way, but let's FUD everybody hosting it into deleting, as it would require much less effort than actually providing proofs of illegality" And I agree that lawyers are getting out of hand. They start waving the DMCA at the smallest situations, as if it was some magical bullet for FUD purposes. Highly unethical attitude. |
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19th April 2006, 13:00 | #114 | Link |
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hmm the interesting part i find in all this is that On2 appear from that to not know for sure if its stolen code(just saying it looks similar) or reverse engineered.
the use of the "breaking EULA" is also questionable. i mean it is possible to get the dll without installing VP6 and if a person looks hard enough i am sure it could be downloaded from places that dont have an agreement before download either. so in such a case you wouldnt be breaking anything because you didnt agree to anything. finally when a EULA makes restrictions to rights a countries laws say you actually have wouldnt this put the EULA on questionable legal grounds ? sorry i am not a lawyer but i would find it strange for a bit of text on a web page or in an installer to over-ride actual laws but hey with the ways some countries work nowdays who knows. i would be interested to hear what any third party/unbiased legal eagles has to say on that. at the moments this is all looking like a big mess. saying they are not lawyers and prefer to be just doing their work rather than running around after this code seems to me to have exploded somewhat in their face. its certainly not winning freinds by sicking the lawyers instead of a personal email. anyone on the ffmpeg dev mailing list will have already seen this aswell.
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19th April 2006, 18:19 | #115 | Link |
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Speaking as an engineer I think that it is inconceivable that this code was created as part of some “clever” black box reverse engineering exercise. I am not a lawyer but just so that you know “there appear to be substantial similarities” in this context means that large chucks of code can be matched up and shown to be LINE FOR LINE identical with one of our older source code trees. The author has changed a few variable names etc, but in many cases that is about it.
Also, the code contains references to things that were changed slightly in later versions of the VP6 bitstream (including FLASH 8) which further confirms that it could not possibly have been created by reverse engineering from Flash content. Finally, as for the damage it causes On2.... Revenue from sales of VP6 continues to contribute significantly to our bottom line. This is a current revenue generating product, so of course we are concerned about the distribution of ripped off / stolen code. On2Tech |
20th April 2006, 00:12 | #116 | Link |
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At this point it's useless to take down the downloads (the code is already floating around on P2Ps too )... but IMHO releasing an official open source free for non commercial use decoder will make no harm to on2, will solve all problems and possibly bring on2 some new *nix customers.
EDIT: Sorry for the confusion. I mixed up free-codecs with rarewares and i thought (from the filename) the file was published on P2Ps. So no worry... it's not there
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20th April 2006, 03:51 | #118 | Link | |
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BTW: Their lawyers didn't reply yet. My reply to their first C&D was sent this morning. |
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20th April 2006, 04:10 | #119 | Link | ||
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a good point was also raised on the ffmpeg dev mailing list. when an OSS author claims his code has been ripped off the first thing he is asked for is atleast some kind of proof. the same has been expected from On2 but you guys have not shown anything. are you really surprised people are questioning your actions of sicking the lawyers to say it MAY have been stolen ? come on On2Tech surely you can see what a PR mess these actions have made even if you are right ? you have been around here long enough to know if you treat this community(and i mean more than just the Doom9 users) with a little respect and openness they are willing to help and support you back. as someone who helped beta test for you guys in the past i know this is so. however sicking the lawyers on this same community causes nothing but bad blood in the end. Quote:
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20th April 2006, 05:11 | #120 | Link |
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He's an engineer, he's probably on rather unsteady footing just talking about it. Statements on here could be used in discovery or court, like email, at a later date. (I'm not sure what the exact legal grounds of forum postings are, but they have to be a lot firmer than heresay.) If you want to rant to someone, call up On2's legal, or directors, or someone else higher up in the food chain.
Yes, I think the lawyers handling this so far are rather brain-damaged, since this could all have been resolved a month ago with a little private code-sharing and a few announcements about the obviousness of the theft; but they're lawyers, that's what they're here for. |
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