"Cinavia"/Verance BluRay audio watermark protection

[Andy o]

BTW, download the .exe file referenced in that first post at your own risk.

[Ghitulescu]

Originally Posted by Andy o

Which post is yours? The first poster reeks of BS, but StevenNewcastle posted a clever workaround that might just work. (Short Steven: use a DTS WAV track so the player's decoder thinks it's just noise, but the receiver/decoder over SPDIF will still decode it as 5.1 DTS.)

Even so, where's the hack? S/P-DIF cannot accommodate HD audio formats, so big deal . Most methods simply concern the playback of downloaded movies on PCs and/or mediaplayers. The latter are not affected yet by cinavia.

[sexconker]

I rip my BluRays and store them on a network drive.
I currently play them through my PC hooked up to my TV via HDMI and an old HTIB via optical.

I'm currently looking at buying a new HTIB ( http://amzn.com/B0076R7K26 ) and was wondering if I'd be screwed over by Cinavia. Since the HTIB is a BluRay player, it has (or will soon have) Cinavia detection. The issue is whether or not that detection triggers on the other inputs.

If I play the file on my PC and pass the audio and video over HDMI to the HTIB (audio either as DTS/DTS-HD MA/AC3 passthrough or LPCM), would it listen in on that audio stream and throw a fit? Or would I be safe?

I could also pass 5.1 AC3 over optical and have the video go straight to the TV via HDMI.

I'm thinking I would be safe since the HTIB isn't the one decoding the source file and wouldn't know if there was a key or not. Cinavia detection only trips if the Cinavia-infected hardware has access to the source file. If it's just audio (or audio/video) decoded from an external device, it has no way of knowing whether or not it's an original.

Right?

[SamuriHL]

Correct. The Cinavia detection can only work on discs that it's playing. It can't reliably detect whether another source is properly licensed or not. Of course, that doesn't mean stupid companies won't try. What I mean is they could detect a Cinavia signal in another source and refuse to play it whether it's legitimate or not. That'd be stupid and get them sued most likely, but, it's at least possible.

[sexconker]

Thanks, that's what I figured.
If I play a file on my external device and feed audio/video to my HTIB, the HTIB can detect Cinavia in the watermark but can't do squat because it only has access to audio and video from the device, and can't verify whether or not it's an original. If I played a copied BluRay disc or a rip via a USB drive / network share, then it would have access to the file itself and would be able to know that I'm playing a rip and not an original.

I should be good to go then.

[SamuriHL]

In theory, yea. I never count out the stupidity of these companies, but, I can't see them blocking Cinavia content played outside their own blu-ray player. The detection is built into their blu-ray player and not the receiver part anyway.

[diogen]

Originally Posted by sexconker

I currently play them through my PC hooked up to my TV via HDMI and an old HTIB via optical.
I'm currently looking at buying a new HTIB...

Why do you need an HTIB if you play ripped movies on your PC?

Get a decent AVR. At the moment those don't have Cinavia smarts even in theory...

Diogen.

[diogen]

Originally Posted by Andy o

...Steven: use a DTS WAV track so the player's decoder thinks it's just noise,
but the receiver/decoder over SPDIF will still decode it as 5.1 DTS.)

If this does work and the PS3 can be that easily tricked
into believing the audio file's header (instead of content),
it most likely will be fixed during next firmware update.

The fix can be dead easy: reduce the volume by 0.1%.
That would be enough to turn the soundtrack into real white noise...

Diogen.

[Andy o]

Reduce the volume of what? Sony would have to actually add a feature, which I'm sure some people would be happy about (I've seen a few request or ask about it at the foobar2000 forum), which is DTS wav detection and decoding. So if Sony did that, how would you "reduce the volume" so that the decoder detects it as noise?

[sexconker]

Originally Posted by diogen

Why do you need an HTIB if you play ripped movies on your PC?

Get a decent AVR. At the moment those don't have Cinavia smarts even in theory...

Diogen.

Because the PC is hooked up to the TV for video, and the HTIB for surround sound?

An HTIB is smaller, cheaper, cleaner, etc. than a full receiver.
I realize a receiver wouldn't have any possibility of Cinavia infection, but I don't want to shell out the extra cash for a receiver + speakers + a BluRay player.
My current Samsung HTIB has been great for 10+ years, and I'm only upgrading it because I'll have future devices that don't have optical out (Wii U, for example).

For my purposes, http://amzn.com/B0076R7K26 looks like the best option (it was $25 cheaper yesterday, damn it). That and an HDMI switcher. I don't need or want 7.1, giant or expensive speakers, etc.

[setarip_old]

Re: Evanescent software

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...03&postcount=1

Right now the software is still in development and the authors report a success rate of 55% on the tested Blu-Ray discs and DVDs. The release of DVD Ranger 5 is scheduled for October 31st and will cost $89.99 plus $39.99 for the Cinavia module. Pre-order price is $69.99 – including the Cinavia module.

Seeking advance payments for vaporware - Cute...

[Kerry56]

Someone claiming to be a rep for Pixbyte/IFoerster showed up over at MyCE, in this thread.

No way of verifying anything at the moment, but it does seem the software will have a 7 day trial to test its capabilities.

[Ch3vr0n]

and and every guy i know that tried to install that trial had it expire the second they clicked the "get trial key" button. Gone from 7d trail to expire by 1 button press

[Ghitulescu]

Originally Posted by Ch3vr0n

and and every guy i know that tried to install that trial had it expire the second they clicked the "get trial key" button. Gone from 7d trail to expire by 1 button press

That looks like scam to me .

[Big Vern]

Originally Posted by Ch3vr0n

and and every guy i know that tried to install that trial had it expire the second they clicked the "get trial key" button. Gone from 7d trail to expire by 1 button press

Yep, same here! I even emailed them about it, and have not yet had a reply.
Make your own minds up

[mike20021969]

Originally Posted by Ch3vr0n

and and every guy i know that tried to install that trial had it expire the second they clicked the "get trial key" button. Gone from 7d trail to expire by 1 button press

Originally Posted by Big Vern

Yep, same here!

There's a possible scenario for that happening here:
http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.ph...1&postcount=39

[setarip_old]

Curiouser and curiouser:

1) If a 7 day pre-release trial is truly available now, the developers would appear to be giving the folks over at Verance an unnecessary heads up to defeat this software, prior to the stated 10/31 release date

2) Posts indicate thusfar

the authors report a success rate of 55% on the tested Blu-Ray discs and DVDs...It will be also tested on PS3, various Blu-ray players and PowerDVD.

A) One would expect, based on the nature of Verance/"Cinavia" protection, methodology would be either 100% successful or 0% successful

B) Not yet tested on PS3 (The world's largest implementation of Verance/"Cinavia"), various Blu-ray players, PowerDVD - Doesn't leave too much of the real world that it could have been tested on

In light of the fact that informational posts are supposedly coming from Spain, perhaps something is being lost in the translation. I say this because, if not due to translation, my interpretation of these informational posts is that they appear to clearly indicate (almost in an "in your face" way) that the community is being tested and/or taunted...

[bryguy12]

The 55% is just poor reporting. Their original 'press release' stated "Approx. 55% of all reported Blu-ray Region A/B disks and DVDs have been successfully tested so far". That doesn't mean 45% failed, just (maybe) that they've only had access to 55% of the known discs with Cinavia.
And my tea-leaf and chicken bone readings feeling? -- this transcoder is vaporware.

[setarip_old]

A bit of information from my (ever-aging) memory banks - The following is part of a post at the Myce Forum, purportedly a "team member" working on this program-in-progress:

2005, The DVD-Ranger team released as first company in the whole world a free and opensource software "ShrinkTo5".

1) It was never truly free - To attempt to be legitimate, you had to trackdown and purchase the core "machinist.dll". You could then choose to either use a "no cost" version laden with adware (and, likely, spyware) or, as I recall, pay $15 to $20 for the "Shrinkto5" skeleton (did not include "machinist.dll).

2) DVD Shrink was ALWAYS 100% free and NEVER contained any adware or spyware.

3) DVD Shrink was around for several years before Shrinkto5 and its constantly problematic "heuristic" programming appeared.

4) If anyone can locate the Shrinkto5 Forum (archives or otherwise, I couldn't find it), among other things, you'd get the overall flavor/sense that the Shrinkto5 folks were constantly trying to catch up with DVD Shrink - and, IIRC (Don't hold me to this), later with RipIt4Me. This same forum contained MANY posts of "Where's my refund?" and "Where do I find the newest Machinist.dll?"

At the risk of being repetitive, I strongly suggest you keep your money in your wallet for the time being.

Perhaps these folks would consider providing test versions of their Verance/"Cinavia"disruption module to the moderating staff of Doom9 for independent testing and evaluation?

[Chetwood]

I deleted ShrinkTo5 after my first test run, LOL. But you know, there's a sucker born every minute. Just think of the jackasses that release a "new" DVD Shrink every year, ripping of uninformed customers.