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Old 13th July 2016, 02:13   #38681  |  Link
SpoCk0nd0pe
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Hey Madshi,

I've got a rather special request:

Could you implement changing 3d formats, allowing a change from frame packed 3d to frame sequential 3d?

or

Could you implement support for frame sequential 3d input?
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Old 13th July 2016, 02:28   #38682  |  Link
digitech
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does anyone know if i use the nvidia edge enhancement option with "use nvidia setting" selected on control panel if madvr really apply this setting or just ignore it?
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Old 13th July 2016, 02:59   #38683  |  Link
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does anyone know if i use the nvidia edge enhancement option with "use nvidia setting" selected on control panel if madvr really apply this setting or just ignore it?
should be ignored except with DXVA processing. it may work with deinterlancing or DXVA scaling.
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Old 13th July 2016, 06:51   #38684  |  Link
Ironclad
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Having to copy the image in high-bit-depth from the GPU to system memory and back after processing will take a significant part of the performance, so don't expect too much free magic.
Oh so more so than the GPU needing to process an additional 36 or more frames per second, it's the lag caused by storing in system memory that's slowing everything down. I'm probably oversimplifying it but 640x480 frames->1440x1080 frames should increase the traffic through system memory by like 5 both ways compared to the current method.

Even if the GPU is doing 2.5-6 times as much work, that's not comparable to the difference in speed between RAM and VRAM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...-access_memory

Oh of course that's why already high framerate videos are no issue! The only solution would be if the interpolation is done entirely by a GPU. I guess using DDR4 will help somewhat. I'll see what the SVP developers think but I'm guessing it would require completely rewriting the filter.

Last edited by Ironclad; 13th July 2016 at 08:41.
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Old 13th July 2016, 21:59   #38685  |  Link
ShiftyFella
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Looks like HDR processing in .22 is kinda broken or maybe it's just me? LG Chess and Sony Camp videos play absolutely fine with hdr processing turned on and picture looks like it should but this Samsung demo and files from this post look totally wrong. HDR processing option turned on produces color shifted image. Playing with any of the options doesn't help and only turning it off helps. Using .20 or older produced no such issues, I skipped .21 and updated straight to .22 from .20 tho


samsung hdr demo:
hdr processing turned on:


hdr processing off:



sony camp:
hdr on:

hdr off:
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Old 13th July 2016, 22:35   #38686  |  Link
pose
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madshi, i was always curious as of what settings and scaling algorithms you prefer yourself. Can you tell me please? Also thank you for the madVR! My chinese cartoons look amazing!
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Old 14th July 2016, 00:02   #38687  |  Link
zoyd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
Looks like HDR processing in .22 is kinda broken or maybe it's just me?
I'm not seeing any color shifting of that image here. Note that the text and image overlay is encoded with peak white at 255 (10,000 nits).

350 nit display (madVR set to 400 nits HDR on, preserve hue on)
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Old 14th July 2016, 00:15   #38688  |  Link
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Is it possible for MadVR to have more controls than the seek bar in exclusive mode? (like next/previous chapter buttons for example)
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Last edited by mastrboy; 14th July 2016 at 00:18.
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Old 14th July 2016, 00:40   #38689  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
HDR processing option turned on produces color shifted image.
sony camp:
hdr on:
I've watched this HDR test video quite a lot at work on HDR & non HDR TV's, and that's exactly how it looks.
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Old 14th July 2016, 00:58   #38690  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by mastrboy View Post
Is it possible for MadVR to have more controls than the seek bar in exclusive mode? (like next/previous chapter buttons for example)
PotPlayer has fully skinnable GUI's and also a mode that doesn't break FSE

Last edited by leeperry; 14th July 2016 at 01:00.
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Old 14th July 2016, 01:37   #38691  |  Link
zoyd
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I do think the desaturation of high luminance red/orange is too aggressive when using preserve hue. Take this for example:

hue preserve off


hue preserve on


CalMAN LUT


Without hue preserve the madVR image luminance is too low and appears oversaturated - with hue preserve you lose all of the amber light and a good portion of the red tent.

The CalMAN LUT appears to mildly desaturate and both white and amber headlights look correct. The red tent brightens without loosing too much red definition.
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Old 14th July 2016, 02:03   #38692  |  Link
ryrynz
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
The CalMAN LUT appears to mildly desaturate and both white and amber headlights look correct. The red tent brightens without loosing too much red definition.
That's more than just mild desaturation, but yes the lights do look right to me but the rest if quite off. What are you basing you comparison on for things being accurate/not accurate?
I might be tempted to take a photo of one of the HD sets at work with this scene for comparison although it wouldn't be calibrated.

Last edited by ryrynz; 14th July 2016 at 02:06.
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Old 14th July 2016, 02:46   #38693  |  Link
ShiftyFella
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I'm not seeing any color shifting of that image here. Note that the text and image overlay is encoded with peak white at 255 (10,000 nits).

350 nit display (madVR set to 400 nits HDR on, preserve hue on)
After resetting my setting and nuking all of my profiles, I figured out the culprit. It was SuperRes turned on for chroma upscaling. When both SuperRes and HDR procesing turned on, it produces weird color shift and it changes depending on the SR level. Turning SR off brings picture back to normal, apparently i had SR on in some profiles but not in others, that's why it was only showing up with different files. I'm not sure what's going on or why it's doing this.

HDR on, SR off:


HDR on, SR@1:


HDR on, SR@4:


HDR off, SR on
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Old 14th July 2016, 02:55   #38694  |  Link
zoyd
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
That's more than just mild desaturation, but yes the lights do look right to me but the rest if quite off.
The point was that the CalMAN LUT generated image is significantly less desaturated than what madVR is doing with preserve hue.

Quote:
What are you basing you comparison on for things being accurate/not accurate?
The display is calibrated via the LUT so what I am seeing is correct in an absolute sense for in-gamut colors. For the out-of-gamut colors there is no way to assess "correct" because each display needs a different compromise depending on it's peak luminance. All I can say is that the CalMAN LUT mapping of out-of-gamut colors for my display appears to do a better job with these red/orange highlights than the current madVR algorithm.
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Old 14th July 2016, 05:43   #38695  |  Link
James Freeman
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I do think the desaturation of high luminance red/orange is too aggressive when using preserve hue. Take this for example:
I have to agree, the CalMAN LUT preserve the color gradations more, while in madVR the colors turn to white very fast.

Moreover, when changing the "display calibrated to gamut" to BT.2020 in madVR it should preserve more of the color saturation gradations than BT.709 no?
It looks like it does not even on BT.2020.
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Last edited by James Freeman; 14th July 2016 at 05:46.
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Old 14th July 2016, 09:40   #38696  |  Link
StinDaWg
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Can anyone else confirm these D3D11 bugs...

When in D3D11 FSE mode, playing back a 30 fps video (not 29.97, but 30 fps), the render queue and present queue drops down to minimum levels, and present stats are abnormally high (15-19ms) when it's normally in the 0 to 1ms range.

This also happens for all videos when the video is paused in D3D11 FSE and Windows screen saver comes on. Once you resume play all the queues drop and they never recover.

This does not happen in D3D11 windowed or D3D9 (either mode). It seems to be a D3D11 FSE only issue. Using AMD card/drivers and Win10.

I would like to use D3D11 FSE as it offers the best performance and 10 bit mode, but these issues make it kind of unusable for me.

Last edited by StinDaWg; 14th July 2016 at 11:09.
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Old 14th July 2016, 10:36   #38697  |  Link
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I'm having an issue: I get a OpenCL error on the x64 version of MPC-HC. Causes MPC-HC to crash. I don't get it on the x86 version. Is this a known issue?

I have a AMD R9 390 8GB GPU. So it can't be a memory issue.

Last edited by wolfman2791; 14th July 2016 at 11:40.
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Old 14th July 2016, 11:42   #38698  |  Link
zoyd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Moreover, when changing the "display calibrated to gamut" to BT.2020 in madVR it should preserve more of the color saturation gradations than BT.709 no?
It looks like it does not even on BT.2020.
No, BT.2020 just means wide gamut encoding. The colors in that clip do not exceed DCI/P3 gamut and the problem is with high luminance throwing these colors out-of-gamut, not high saturation.
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Old 14th July 2016, 12:16   #38699  |  Link
ShiftyFella
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Can anyone else confirm these D3D11 bugs...

When in D3D11 FSE mode, playing back a 30 fps video (not 29.97, but 30 fps), the render queue and present queue drops down to minimum levels, and present stats are abnormally high (15-19ms) when it's normally in the 0 to 1ms range.

This does not happen in D3D11 windowed or D3D9 (either mode). It seems to be a D3D11 FSE only issue. Using AMD card/drivers and Win10.

I would like to use D3D11 FSE as it offers the best performance and 10 bit mode, but these issues make it kind of unusable for me.
Do you use hdmi port for your tv\monitor? I can confirm this weird behavior occurs over hdmi but not over display port, everything is like it should there. I have 290x with latest crimson drivers(16.7.2) and win10(64bit). Personally I don't use FSE that much as I don't see any performance gain and it sometimes messes with my multi monitor setup

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Old 14th July 2016, 12:27   #38700  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
OK, here goes
Ok, thanks, will have a look at that when I find some time, maybe next weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
What changes happened between 0.90.20 and 0.90.22 that would hurt performance?
Three things:

1) Bilateral chroma upscaling is slower now (when using the new algo).
2) HDR handling is slower now.
3) Fixed a couple of bugs in deciding when image doubling and upscaling refinement becomes activated.

If you don't use Bilateral chroma upscaling, and if we're talking about SDR content, and you still get slower performance, then it might have to do with image doubling and/or upscaling refinement now maybe becoming active when it didn't before?

Quote:
Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
What does it mean if 1080p/720p MKV movies have present queue 0-2/3 in Windowed Mode but FSE it works fine.

Asus G751JT

Windows 8.1 x64 + Potplayer x64 + Lavfilters 0.61 + DXVA2 CopyBack or CUVID + 970M + 368.69 Drivers + Potplayer Profile set to Maximum Performance - 3 Pre-rendered frames - Gsync Disabled Fixed Refresh

How can I fix it ?
The render queue is the first queue in the list which is nearly empty, so that's the bottleneck. It seems that your GPU can't keep up. Might have to do with the high refresh rate (100Hz). You may have to lower your scaling settings. E.g. use 16 neurons instead of 32 for chroma upscaling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
what image/chroma upscaling, and refinement settings would you guys suggest, if you got enough gpu power (GTX 1080)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4nder View Post
Same question, with a GTX1080 I can easily run NNEDI3 with 256 neurons but with some content it looks painfully sharp. Still looking for the optimal choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pose View Post
madshi, i was always curious as of what settings and scaling algorithms you prefer yourself. Can you tell me please? Also thank you for the madVR! My chinese cartoons look amazing!
For chroma upscaling I like super-xbr AR or Reconstruction Soft, which are both decent allround algorithms, which work fine for most content. The best quality can be achieved with Bilateral, though. However, although Bilateral looks best in most cases, sometimes it produces artifacts, so at this point I'm not confident recommending it as a general purpose allround algorithm yet.

For luma upscaling I like NNEDI3 + SuperRes. For downscaling I like SSIM1D 100 with some Anti-Bloating.

Just my personal opinion, though. YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiandow View Post
Perhaps it's interesting to point out that Anti-Bloating simply seems to make the result closer to what you'd get with the latest version of SuperRes. Not entirely sure what differences there are with MadVR's SuperRes, but among other things this version uses Linear Light, and no anti-ringing of any kind.
Which settings did you use for your newest SuperRes for this image?

I just compared your latest SuperRes with mine again last weekend, but I'm still not convinced that your latest algo is an improvement over what I already have. The nice thing about yours is that it doesn't need an extra anti-ringing filter. However, depending on the settings, yours still has either aliasing artifacts, or looks somewhat "bloated", or is too soft for my taste.

Generally I don't like having 5 different options which all influence each other. Most users wouldn't have a clue which settings they should use. I'd like to have one algo with just a "strength" option which works decent for all sources. And from what I'm seeing, currently I still think my current implementation is a better allround solution with less bloated look, less aliasing problems and higher detail reconstruction. But I'm very willing to be convinced otherwise!

Which settings would you recommend to use with your new algorithm? Those settings should work well for all sources. I'll gladly retest to see if with those settings I now like yours better than mine.

Thanks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryleungwh View Post
I'm trying to use the debug mode to find out what's preventing me from using D3D11 exclusive mode but I don't quite understand what the log says. These two lines seem significant though
Code:
00006286.019 Window   blocking WM_NCACTIVATE
00006289.356 Render   prevented Direct3D from setting display mode 0x0, 0 Hz, progressive
Could this be the problem and how can I fix it? If no what should I look for in the log for such problem?
The log is pretty hard to interpret. It's made for my eyes, so I'm not sure if you can find what you need. Those 2 lines you mentioned are "good", they should be there are don't indicate a problem.

If you upload the (zipped) log somewhere I can have a look if I can see something. Please activate the Ctrl+J OSD and keep it active while creating the log, then try to enter exclusive mode. Having the Ctrl+J OSD turned on is important because in this specific case it adds more information to the debug log.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
The adaptive sharpen shader has been updated
K, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoCk0nd0pe View Post
Could you implement changing 3d formats, allowing a change from frame packed 3d to frame sequential 3d?
My control over what the GPU outputs is very limited. I can either output frame packed 3D, or conventional 2D. I have no other options. When outputting conventional 2D, I can do some fancy pixel resorting, which allows me to render 3D for those line or column alternate displays (passive IPS LCDs). But I don't see how I could do frame sequential 3D. Neither Windows nor the GPU manufacturers offer any kind of API for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastrboy View Post
Is it possible for MadVR to have more controls than the seek bar in exclusive mode? (like next/previous chapter buttons for example)
This is really what the media player should do. I do know that not all media players provide a nice exclusive mode GUI, though, which is the reason why I implemented the seekbar in the first place. Maybe at some point I'll add more GUI controls for media players that don't have their own in exclusive mode. But it's not a high priority atm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I've watched this HDR test video quite a lot at work on HDR & non HDR TV's, and that's exactly how it looks.
FWIW, tone+gamut mapping on current HDR TVs is not really high quality, so I'm not sure if that should be used as a reference. I would really like madVR to be better than what HDR TVs do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I do think the desaturation of high luminance red/orange is too aggressive when using preserve hue. Take this for example:

[..]

Without hue preserve the madVR image luminance is too low and appears oversaturated - with hue preserve you lose all of the amber light and a good portion of the red tent.

The CalMAN LUT appears to mildly desaturate and both white and amber headlights look correct. The red tent brightens without loosing too much red definition.
Agreed. I've talked to Graeme about this. He says priority in gamut mapping should be like this:

1) hue preserversion.
2) luminance preservation.
3) saturation preservation.

Which is *exactly* the priority sorting I use in madVR. However, Graeme makes the excellent point that desaturating a pixel too much doesn't really preserve hue. E.g. an almost white pixel doesn't really preserve any hue at all, although strictly the hue angle might still be perfect.

So I'm going to modify the desaturation logic a bit to avoid pixels getting desaturated too much. This means luminance accuracy will take a hit, though. I'm currently waiting for more feedback from Graeme and SpectraCal about how I should do that in the best possible way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
After resetting my setting and nuking all of my profiles, I figured out the culprit. It was SuperRes turned on for chroma upscaling. When both SuperRes and HDR procesing turned on, it produces weird color shift and it changes depending on the SR level.
Ah, thanks! Will have a look at this ASAP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Can anyone else confirm these D3D11 bugs...

When in D3D11 FSE mode, playing back a 30 fps video (not 29.97, but 30 fps), the render queue and present queue drops down to minimum levels, and present stats are abnormally high (15-19ms) when it's normally in the 0 to 1ms range.
This can happen with weird refresh rates, especially in 10bit mode, especially with AMD GPU drivers. I don't think I've seen this reported with NVidia drivers yet. One possible fix is to lower the number of prepresented frames to e.g. 4-6. This reportedly has helped for most users in the past. I believe it's a GPU driver issue, which is related to the mixture of using D3D11, weird refresh rates, a high number of prepresented frames, and maybe 10bit output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfman2791 View Post
I'm having an issue: I get a OpenCL error on the x64 version of MPC-HC. Causes MPC-HC to crash. I don't get it on the x86 version. Is this a known issue?

I have a AMD R9 390 8GB GPU. So it can't be a memory issue.
Probably a GPU driver issue. Have you tried different GPU driver versions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
Do you use hdmi port for your tv\monitor? I can confirm this weird behavior occurs over hdmi but not over display port, everything is like it should there. I have 290x with latest crimson drivers(16.7.2) and win10(64bit). Personally I don't use FSE that much as I don't see any performance gain and it sometimes messes with my multi monitor setup
That's quite interesting! I suppose the left most screenshot is HDMI while the other 2 are display port? So a good workaround would be to use a display port -> HDMI adapter to avoid the presentation queue from getting empty in FSE mode?
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