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Old 19th March 2016, 08:47   #36961  |  Link
adhara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
Great stuff many thanks for that Warner. I will try both tonight and report back.

Forgot to ask, do you both use projectors?

Warner306, these are not in your preferred setting in your guide

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188
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Old 19th March 2016, 11:20   #36962  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Because blended frames make it smoother (especially noticeable on panning shots, Casino Royale is a good test)

Better 24 standard frames +36 Smooth Motion blended/duplicated frames than just 24 standard frames and that's half the reason why Smooth & Fluid Motion exist, the other half being no more 3:2 pulldown (which madVR needs some work on).

Projectors generally mask this problem with their double shuttering, but properly supportive of 24P or not.. you'll still get smoother results with Smooth/Fluid Motion at the expense of clarity.. But you know that already.
but smooth motion doesn't work this way you are not getting 24 frames plus 36 blended frames. smooth motions tries to blend as little frames as possible.

a screen is usually using 120 hz to display 24p so what's this about?
Quote:
if your screen has a properly working 23p mode i don't see a reason why smooth motion could be better it could be at best as good as native 23p.
that's pretty important so ignore the 3:2 judder part.

but why needs madVR work on this?
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Old 19th March 2016, 12:37   #36963  |  Link
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does switching work for 1440p displays/something wrong on my end or is it not implemented yet?

http://i.imgur.com/JvgDRem.png
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Old 19th March 2016, 12:39   #36964  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
but smooth motion doesn't work this way you are not getting 24 frames plus 36 blended frames. smooth motions tries to blend as little frames as possible.
Of course, that's why I used the word duplicated too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
a screen is usually using 120 hz to display 24p so what's this about?
Not always. For example my plasma is noticeably running at a lower frequency. I can see the refresh difference between 24Hz and 60Hz even when Motion interpolation is enabled which I don't understand..

Regardless, it's still only 24 frames being displayed regardless of the display frequency which isn't enough to replicate truly natural smooth motion. Panning and scrolling will always be a stutter fest using only 24 fps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
but why needs madVR work on this?
Because I found MPDN presents 3:2 pulldown better. Madshi acknowledged it needs work, it's just not high priority.
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Old 19th March 2016, 12:40   #36965  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by zvans18 View Post
does switching work for 1440p displays/something wrong on my end or is it not implemented yet?

http://i.imgur.com/JvgDRem.png

yes a clear bug/limitation.

Last edited by huhn; 19th March 2016 at 13:09. Reason: added quote
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Old 19th March 2016, 12:49   #36966  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Not always. For example my plasma is noticeably running at a lower frequency. I can see the refresh difference between 24Hz and 60Hz even when Motion interpolation is enabled which I don't understand..

Regardless, it's still only 24 frames being displayed regardless of the display frequency which isn't enough to replicate truly natural smooth motion. Panning and scrolling will always be a stutter fest using only 24 fps.
that's simply a not properly working 23/24p mode.

older plasma do this at 48 hz pure flicker party or it may doing it at 60 hz.

newer ones (which are pretty old now) have an option to switch to 96 hz for this. and oly the expensive ones.

Panasonic and Samsung are pretty bad at this 23p games...

i mean Panasonic was able to create a 120 hz TV with 3:2 judder at 23/24p with my CX700. i'm pretty much out of word here...
Quote:
Because I found MPDN presents 3:2 pulldown better. Madshi acknowledged it needs work, it's just not high priority.
ahh that yeah madVR is pretty bad at repeating or dropping frames to match a refresh rate.

but some people use 60 hz without smoothmotion for some reasons...
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Old 19th March 2016, 15:50   #36967  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zvans18 View Post
does switching work for 1440p displays/something wrong on my end or is it not implemented yet?

http://i.imgur.com/JvgDRem.png
You need to specify
Code:
2560x1440pXXX
so in your case it would be:
Code:
2560x1440p144, 2560x1440p120, 2560x1440p100
(unless you have a different pixel width display)
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Old 19th March 2016, 20:39   #36968  |  Link
arrgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrgh View Post
I have read the thread on configuring madVR compiled by Warner306, which was very informative.

I have not the newest Hardware :
Win 8.1x64 on core 2 duo 6600 @2400 GHz and DDR800 Memory.

Still, PowerDVD13 and StereoscopicPlayer are able to playback 3D-MVC Content without Problems (iso or mkv respectivly).

On the other hand, when I use MPC-BEx64 (with madVR from Shark007) and his advanced codec pack, i get good playback for standard bluray content, but extrem stuttering and hundreds of droped frames if playing the same 3d content PowerDVD or StereoscopicPalyer managed without Problems on the same machine...

I have played around with the madVR and LAV Settings for some time. But without success.

Therefore my question is
- what should the basic settings be for playback of 1080p23 content (2D/3D) as long as the quality is comparable to PowerDVD
- what are the chances to get a "core madVR" which would simply provide the 3d-playback to MPC-BE without to many "fancy" picture improvements (again, I would call it already a day, if it would be in the range of PoverDVD13, which does run on my System)...

Thanks in advance
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
what GPU are you using?

and can you make a screen of the OSD when a 2D file s running (control+j)?
sorry, forgot : Raedon HD 6570

screenshot enclosed;
what would be also nice, is to have in the LAV Audio Decoder settings an option to convert in real time aac to ac3 (i know that's the wrong thread)...
MPC-BE internal codec allows for this; I have everything in aac...but my AV-Receiver is not able to process aac, so I convert it on the fly to ac3;
therefore I use LAV splitter, LAV Video Decoder and internal MPC-BE Audio Decoder (the screenshot is done with this setup);

to preempt questions to this mixed setup : also when I was using also the LAV Audio Decoder, the jerking was the same....so, it is not caused by the Decoder-mix
if I don't do this, I get Audio as 5Ch-Stereo...

Thanks
Attached Images
 

Last edited by arrgh; 19th March 2016 at 20:47.
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Old 19th March 2016, 22:27   #36969  |  Link
zvans18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clammerz View Post
You need to specify
Code:
2560x1440pXXX
so in your case it would be:
Code:
2560x1440p144, 2560x1440p120, 2560x1440p100
(unless you have a different pixel width display)
thanks, that did it. i didn't think i had to since just '1080pxx' works on my other screens

now to get switching to actually work again (it breaks and then fixes repeatedly as i use LAV and MPC-BE nightlies from time to time)
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Old 19th March 2016, 23:10   #36970  |  Link
j1731630
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Hi. Im using madVR with DaumPotPlayer, and there is some problem.
I cant export current frame when using this renderer, there is no file, even if player says that the frame was exported to location.
Maybe there is build-in madVR frame exporting functional ?
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Old 19th March 2016, 23:14   #36971  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by adhara View Post
Warner306, these are not in your preferred setting in your guide

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188
I don't think that matters. The examples presented are just for demonstration for someone who uses a GTS 450. You don't need to take my advice on what the best settings are. This would vary widely depending on the GPU you own.

Last edited by Warner306; 19th March 2016 at 23:28.
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Old 19th March 2016, 23:27   #36972  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrgh View Post
sorry, forgot : Raedon HD 6570

screenshot enclosed;
what would be also nice, is to have in the LAV Audio Decoder settings an option to convert in real time aac to ac3 (i know that's the wrong thread)...
MPC-BE internal codec allows for this; I have everything in aac...but my AV-Receiver is not able to process aac, so I convert it on the fly to ac3;
therefore I use LAV splitter, LAV Video Decoder and internal MPC-BE Audio Decoder (the screenshot is done with this setup);

to preempt questions to this mixed setup : also when I was using also the LAV Audio Decoder, the jerking was the same....so, it is not caused by the Decoder-mix
if I don't do this, I get Audio as 5Ch-Stereo...

Thanks
You shouldn't use attachments in this forum because they have to be approved.

Are you sure your settings aren't going over the rendering queue? Are all of the queues full including the present queue? Are you getting presentation glitches or dropped frames?

Did you install the 3D software decoder with LAV Filters? It is an optional checkbox.

Last edited by Warner306; 19th March 2016 at 23:29.
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Old 20th March 2016, 01:44   #36973  |  Link
arrgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
You shouldn't use attachments in this forum because they have to be approved.

Are you sure your settings aren't going over the rendering queue? Are all of the queues full including the present queue? Are you getting presentation glitches or dropped frames?
ok, here a link to the 2D-content screen shot;

and here to a 3D-mvc photographed trough shutter goggles... the Problem seem to be droped frames...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Did you install the 3D software decoder with LAV Filters? It is an optional checkbox.
frankly, I have not thought about this... I installed Shark007 MPC-BEx64 with madVR and his Advanced Codecs... expected every thing being onboard. So, no, I did not do anything beyond installing the Shark007 codecs... but the picture is 3D with the same apearence as if played by PowerDVD...
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Old 20th March 2016, 02:00   #36974  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrgh View Post
ok, here a link to the 2D-content screen shot;

and here to a 3D-mvc photographed trough shutter goggles... the Problem seem to be droped frames...
looks like your CPU can't decode the video fast enough. hardware decoding is not supported with 3D in lavfilter.

so i don't see a way you can make this work.
AFAIK hardware 3D decoding isn't planned anytime soon.
so you kind of need new hardware to make that work.
i'm pretty sure powerDVD supports 3D decoding using DXVA2.

and think about an image host for images not a file host.
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Old 20th March 2016, 02:25   #36975  |  Link
arrgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
looks like your CPU can't decode the video fast enough. hardware decoding is not supported with 3D in lavfilter.
...
i'm pretty sure powerDVD supports 3D decoding using DXVA2.
...as does obviously also StereoscopicPlayer...
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Old 20th March 2016, 06:36   #36976  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
that's simply a not properly working 23/24p mode.
It's true that some TV's are better than others at masking the problems with 24 fps but still.. Smooth Motion is still smoother and significantly so for some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
i mean Panasonic was able to create a 120 hz TV with 3:2 judder at 23/24p with my CX700.
The CX700 is an amazing TV for the price, I sell them at work. Incredibly natural colors and backlight, and incredibly smooth.
I always recommend them to anyone interested in a good quality 4K TV without spending too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
but some people use 60 hz without smoothmotion for some reasons...
It's a no brainer AFAIC but to each their own.
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Old 20th March 2016, 12:08   #36977  |  Link
arrgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
... hardware decoding is not supported with 3D in lavfilter.

...

AFAIK hardware 3D decoding isn't planned anytime soon.
so you kind of need new hardware to make that work.
the Hardware is a dedicated HTPC. I do nothing else with it.
It is of course not the top-notch setup but it is still able to

- record 2 Pay-TV HD-Satelite channels while playing back a 3rd HD recording
- playback Internet Radio
- playback my music collection
- present my photos
- playback Bluray/DVD

the only missing item is the playback of 3D Content, which is also not a Hardware Problem, but a software deficit...

I know, I can't really complain. Everything is done here "for free". And I'm really thankful for this.
I just hoped that 3d-hardware decoding would be kind of a priority...

Thanks
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Old 20th March 2016, 13:41   #36978  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
It's true that some TV's are better than others at masking the problems with 24 fps but still.. Smooth Motion is still smoother and significantly so for some.
even a cheap Phillips can easily perfect 23p and smoothmotion is not going to win versus this.

let me say it in another way.

if you play a 24p source at a 120 hz screen with perfect timing smoothmotion wouldn't do anything on that screen it would never ever blend a frame and this is kind of what an modern TV does.
do you really think a 24hz signal at 60 with smooth motion can be better?
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Old 20th March 2016, 17:46   #36979  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrgh View Post
the Hardware is a dedicated HTPC. I do nothing else with it.
It is of course not the top-notch setup but it is still able to

- record 2 Pay-TV HD-Satelite channels while playing back a 3rd HD recording
- playback Internet Radio
- playback my music collection
- present my photos
- playback Bluray/DVD

the only missing item is the playback of 3D Content, which is also not a Hardware Problem, but a software deficit...

I know, I can't really complain. Everything is done here "for free". And I'm really thankful for this.
I just hoped that 3d-hardware decoding would be kind of a priority...

Thanks
the issue is more like how many people want to use 3D and don't have at least a CPU like a i3 sandy or something like that?

that number is very very low.
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Old 20th March 2016, 20:19   #36980  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uoppi View Post
I'm not sure if I understand correctly but why would I want to watch a 3:2 pulldown movie of 23.976/24 fps at 60 Hz instead?
Ideally you would want to watch a 24p movie at 24Hz. If your TV can't do that (either properly or at all), or if it flickers and that bothers you too much, then the only other options would be using smooth motion FRC, or watching with 3:2 pulldown. The 3:2 pulldown handling in madVR is not optimal atm, but only few people want to use that, I believe, so it's not high priority for me atm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ileile View Post
Sometimes stereo 3d playback is not smooth, and the "dropped frames" or "presentation glitches" keep increasing.
Have you tried the "use alternative glitch handling mode" in the madVR settings? I'm planning to make this the default mode in the next build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ileile View Post
another problem is that: if I connect two displays and play something using mpc-hc, when I drag the mpc-hc from one display to another, the system often crash. Not BSOD, but something like black screen, system can not respond(ctrl+alt+del usually can't work too, but I can move mouse pointer for a period). this problem may occur with only one display, when switching between window mode and exclusive mode. My GPU is AMD R7 200.
Sounds like a GPU driver or OS issue. Windows 10 itself and Windows 10 GPU drivers are not very stable yet. The best OS for media playback is still Windows 8.1 at this point, unfortunately.

Of course there could be a bug in madVR. But Ctrl+Alt+Del not responding sounds like a deeper issue than what madVR should be able to produce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
madshi can you please add a ST.2084 EOTF transfer function under calibration tab?
I will, once the GPU manufacturers allow me to send HDR metadata to the display. As of right now, without the possibility to send metadata, using an EOTF transfer function has no real use, other than for testing/debugging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rxracer View Post
I have 2 displays. If I set the viewing display to secondary I get dropped frames and glitches. If I'm doing nothing on the PC it drops a frame and produces a glitch every 7 seconds on the dot. I timed it.. bizarre. If I start using the pc on the primary monitor the video drops frames and glitches rapidly.
Which OS are you using? Are you using windowed mode or fullscreen exclusive mode? Please show a screenshot of the OSD (Ctrl+J) while those drops/glitches occur. In FSE mode taking a screenshot won't work, in that case you can make a photo with your phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by retrue View Post
I am using last development versions of MPC-HC and LAVFilters.
I updated yesterday from madVR 0.9010 to 0.9015. When I try to play videos I get sound but not image, not in window mode, neither in fullscreen (curiously, with the last version of PotPlayer+MadVR I have image in fullscreen mode but not in window mode). This happens with vids at 1080p and codec H264. It doesn't happen with vids at 480p and codec H264.
The problem appears with version 0.9011. I have returned to madVR 0.9010 and the problem has disappeared.
Can you please try to reset the madVR settings to default? Does the problem still occur? Which OS and GPU are you using?

Quote:
Originally Posted by retrue View Post
Image doubling: double luma (64 neurons) and double chroma (32 neurons), always if upscaling is needed.
But with version madvr 0.9010 I don't have problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
madshi, has the logic behind when doubling occurs changed? I can no longer use NNEDI3 to double the luma y when I play back 1280x720 ==> 1024x768. I was really happy with the results when I was able to do this
"always if upscaling is needed" was changed to "always - 2x supersampling". I'm considering allowing both options in the next build to avoid the problem the two of you have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adhara View Post
When doing 1080p to 2160p upscale with MadVr, I get some video judders (every 15/20 sec) on my UHD TV (2160p/60Hz & HDCP 2.2).
The video input signal on my TV is well seen as 2160p.
I tested several video rates: 23.976Hz, 24 Hz, ... Same issue.

No dropped/delayed/... frame on MadVr. My GC is a Nvidia 970 GTX.

How come ?

When playing back a 2160p video directly on the TV (with an usb key for example), no problem.
Can you please show a screenshot of the OSD (Ctrl+J) when these judders occur? If you're using fullscreen exclusive mode, you may have to use your phone to make a photo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
My only issue is that I get a crash of MPC-BE almost everytime the first time I launch a movie. Second time works fine. It appeared relatively recently but I haven't been able to trace which version of MadVR or MPC-BE introduced this.

It could be a Crimson issue (but not 16.32 specific, I had it earlier), I still have to try to revert to 14.12 to see if it goes away, but as it means I'd lose 3D support with LAV/MadVR, which I really like, I'd rather try to find a solution. There is no error message or crash dump, so debugging isn't easy.
How does the crash look like, if you get no error message? Does the media player silently exit? Or what happens?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
madshi, I don't know what algorithm you used to remap the HDR content to SDR but according to the ST.2084 standard everything under 100nit should be exactly the same as in the SDR.
Do you think it is the right time to discuss light output, gamma curves remapping, color space remapping, etc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Well, I am sure too, but It does not look like the content below 100nit keeps the same light output level, it changes with the "HDR Peak Luminance" setting in madVR.
I don't doubt madshi's decisions about the remapping algorithm for a second, that is why I asked if it is the right time to talk about the whole HDR to SDR remapping issue so that madshi will be open to suggestions.
The algorithms in madVR are not final yet. I'm waiting for the latest SMPTE spec for dynamic metadata, and for Dolby's new colorspace for improved color processing to be released. At that point I'm going to go back and improve the algorithms further. For now they should be fairly good, but probably not perfect yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RenderGuy2 View Post
Thanks, using XySubFilter worked. For some reason MPC-HC's (1.7.10.101 x64) internal subtitle renderer doesn't render with depth on my system.
If you still have this problem with the latest nightly MPC-HC then please report it to the MPC-HC devs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Is having an anti-aliasing filter in future a good idea?
Maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
I had to increase my CPU and GPU queue depths from 4 (my old setting, the minimum allowed) to 8 and activate the "alternative glitch handling" in order to get smooth 3D playback (otherwise, it stuttered like hell with my i5-2500K + 290X + Win10 system).
But now, it works unsurprisingly well (MPC-HC + madVR changed to 3D a lot faster and smoother than PowerDVD [which ends up in 3D with a 50-50 chance after vibrating the screen for several seconds]).
Thank you for this! (Even if 3D is going out of the TV business, I didn't care to watch any 3D content since late 2012, so I have some movies to attend to for this special occasion ).
Separate 3DLUTs would be welcomed though (2D/3D) because my plasma TV behaves extremely differently in 3D mode (but considering how scarce the 3D materials are, it's not that painful to change this manually).
Glad to hear that! You can use profiles to apply different 3dluts for 2D/3D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Regarding max line thinning, since all upscaling refinement options max at 4 I assume you'll just change the degree of strength per point rather than changing the max value like I suggested.
I think you could increase it per point by 25-50%, users would need to update their settings.. but it keeps it all in line then.
Nah, I'll work on improving the line thinning algorithm in the future, anyway, which will change everything again, so I don't mind simply increasing the max value to more than 4 for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
From what I see now with the current algorithm even the darkest parts like night sky form Life of Pi HDR demo changes.
The night sky in this demo only look black as they should when I select 1,300 nits for my display which matches the mastering display from the metadata.
One thing you may not have not considered: Even if you want 50 nits to stay 50 nits, the absolute madVR pixel output values still must change depending on the peak luminance capability of your display. Because if I output e.g. RGB value (50, 50, 50), a bright display will show this with more nits than a dark display. So the madVR RGB output value needs to change with the peak luminance value you've selected in the madVR settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwijunglist View Post
Q: In Jan madshi posted that Win8.1 was preferential to Win10. Is this still the case?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwijunglist View Post
Q: Should I install Win8.1 or Win10, and should I go with 32 or 64 bit? Or am I better sticking with my current setup and PowerDVD for 3d playback for now, as there are still issues to be sorted?
For some users win10 works just fine, others have problems. I can't really tell you what to do. Probably at some point win10 will become as stable as win8.1 is right now for media playback, but currently it's not. You have to make up your own mind.

I'd go with x64, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
I'm using 100 hz laptop monitor and Potplayer + madvr . how come I had Display 100.00000Hz steady. it didn't move at all. I don't know what affected it or what did it, but now it always moves between 100.00392-410. anyone has idea what could affect it and how to make it stuck on 100.00000Hz steady ?
There are 2 different modes in madVR, depending on whether your GPU provides proper VSync information or not. If it does, madVR tries to measure the exact refresh rate. If it doesn't, madVR simply reports the nominal refresh rate reported by the OS. So your 100.00392-410 comes from madVR doing a measurement. And the steady 100.00000Hz comes from your GPU not providing proper VSync scanline information. It's better if madVR gets proper VSync information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Fellows, I want to start a movie with these parameters:
levels=tripleExp
blacklevel=+26
whitelevel=+50
gamma=2.6

then switch back to default and compare between the two, can it be done?

Putting a text file named: "levels=tripleExp, blacklevel=+26, whitelevel=+50, gamma=2.6.txt" doesn't work
Changing the folder name to this does but gamma value does not change (no gamma tag?).
I need a quick one button switch for this test.

EDIT:
Okay, Profiles with a key shortcut works to change the Gamma, but what about the other commands?
What do you need this for? I'm not going to spend development time just to make one user's tests easier, when I could in the same time develop a new feature which would benefit a large number of users!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
I requested gamma tags a long time ago, but madshi seemed opposed to the idea for some reason.
You can use the "brightness" tag which internally changes the gamma value.
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