The Real 10 Platform

[robUx4]

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
phrentec: any player that will support AAC should work. Extracting AAC from the .ra files is no problem, if that's what it takes. The main reason they are currently written out as RM files is that this is what is supported throughout our system, and working out all the quirks with another fileformat takes some time. RealPlayer 10 Gold will most likely rip directly to AAC.

Would it be possible to produce some code for the HelixCommunity that would enable Matroska support in the RealPlayer (with and with RealAudio/Video content) ? I mean technically, is it possible ?

[S_O]

Would it be possible to produce some code for the HelixCommunity that would enable Matroska support in the RealPlayer (with and with RealAudio/Video content) ? I mean technically, is it possible ?

What about native writing of matroska files in HelixProducer, it is open-source, someone could add it, if it´s good they may take it into official builds, and with very good luck the even probably take into RealProducer? Also native playback in RealPlayer would be great.

Don't bother. The HE AAC doesn't work using the current producer version.

I´ve also tried that, but since the bug is fixed, would a fresh CVS checkout fix the problem?
The problem is the helix-site is very unclearly and unstructured, I couldn´t find a good guide to make one (I can´t find anything, the search function doesn´t work, the design is good, but navigation is terrible [nearly impossible]), sometimes it is written like for dummies, other parts are not really understandable.
I extablished a SSH Tunnel with a tool called "Putty", that works, but what settings do I need to make a CVS checkout with TortuiseCVS?
I´ve tried cvsroot: :pserver:s_o@localhost:/cvs (like in the guide) and module ribosome, but doesn´t work.
Also tried: :ext:s_o@localhost:/cvs
Then I tried :pserver:s_o@cvs.helixcommunity.org:/cvs, but I server doesn´t respond, then I tried :ext:s_o@cvs.helixcommunity.org:/cvs, it asks me for a password, but my password doesn´t work. The tried:
:ext:tunnel@cvs.helixcommunity.org:/cvs, I enter the password for the ssh-tunnel and I get this message:
"cvs checkout: warning: unrecognized response `Tunnel established. Type ctrl-c to exit.' from cvs server" (the same message does putty prompt) But then it doesn´t do anything, and I have to cancel. How to do a simple CVS-checkout???

[karl_lillevold]

Re Matroska file-writer for Producer

What about native writing of matroska files in HelixProducer, it is open-source, someone could add it, if it´s good they may take it into official builds, and with very good luck the even probably take into RealProducer?

It would be fantastic if someone wrote a Matroska file-writer plugin for Producer. I am pretty sure we would then distribute this file-writer with Milestone builds of Helix Producer 10.

If there is a volunteer, I would be more than happy to assist as much as I can, even though I will have to forward many questions to the Producer team.

Re HE-AAC
This turned out to be a trivial problem in Producer's audio codec wrapper/interface code that did not handle 'racp' requests correctly. Get the fixed rnaudiocodec DLL from helixcommunity.org.

Now the problem is playback. Even though I have a decoder DLL that is supposed to be fixed with its HE-AAC problem, it does not appear to handle the 'racp' 4cc code, and the player tries to auto-update. I will investigate ..also waiting for Gabest to figure out how to handle these in MPC..

Re Helix Community and CVS access
Everybody agrees about the web site and how hard it is to find what you are looking for. In just a short while this will be completely re-worked though. Re CVS: This is probably not the right place to assist you with this, but the guide has been known to work, even though there are some tricky parts, like having the right env variables, CVS login, SSH, etc. I always use CVS command line and have not had any problems with this. I would recommend the #helix channel on our IRC (appears to be down right now) or the Producer mailing list. I should also warn that the SSH method to access our CVS will change completely in a few days, so perhaps it's not worth it to spend too much effort until these changes are complete.

[S_O]

This turned out to be a trivial problem in Producer's audio codec wrapper/interface code that did not handle 'racp' requests correctly. Get the fixed rnaudiocodec.dll here (temporarily until it's available from helixcommunity.org).

The link doesn´t work, but I found the correct one:
rnaudiocodec.zip (28KB)

I should also warn that the SSH method to access our CVS will change completely in a few days, so perhaps it's not worth it to spend too much effort until these changes are complete.

I´ll wait until the new method is working. Hopefully it is not required to use 27 different programms yust for one simple CVS checkout, why can´t it be as simple as sourceforge or corecodec?

[robUx4]

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
Re Matroska file-writer for Producer

It would be fantastic if someone wrote a Matroska file-writer plugin for Producer. I am pretty sure we would then distribute this file-writer with Milestone builds of Helix Producer 10.

If there is a volunteer, I would be more than happy to assist as much as I can, even though I will have to forward many questions to the Producer team.

I will forward this to the team and see how we can proceed. For sure we would be very happy to work on this !

[karl_lillevold]

Re HE-AAC playback

It turns out two corrections are needed..

1. 1. Hex-edit .rm (.ra) file to modify 'racp' to 'raac'. This is needed because the player and auto-update are not yet set up to handle 'racp'.
   2. obtain fixed raac.dll, available soon. there is a bug resulting in a crash playing HE-AAC in RM. So without this DLL, the hex-edited file from step 1 will still crash the player

As you can see, HE-AAC in our system is not yet well handled, but it is possible to make it work.

Re CVS etc
I have forwarded your feedback. I think everyone agrees less tools are better. In our case, encryption is required, but it will be handled differently soon, hopefully simpler.

@robUx4: Excellent! I will find out more about where a good place to start is.

[bilu]

Originally posted by robUx4
I will forward this to the team and see how we can proceed. For sure we would be very happy to work on this !

Please work on extraction of audio and video streams from Matroska as well. I know there hasn't been too much demand yet, but the lack of tools can give opportunity to accuse the Matroska team of locking in their format.

Fair play is enough motivation to work on this tools IMHO.

Bilu

[S_O]

Please work on extraction of audio and video streams from Matroska as well. I know there hasn't been too much demand yet, but the lack of tools can give opportunity to accuse the Matroska team of locking in their format.

What is needed is a general rm(vb)-muxer, which allows to mux streams from rmvb and also supported streams from .mp4/.aac/.mka/.mkv/.ac3 into rm(vb). Then you could encode 40kbps HE-AAC Audio with Nero and mux it toghether with video into rm(vb). Is there any rm(vb)-muxing tool im planning/developement at Helix/Real?

Yust installed RealPlayer, but it refuses not only to play HE-AAC files, also normal aac-files. It tries an auto-update, then I get this error-message (in german):

Für diesen Inhalt liegt kein Software-Update vor.
Inhaltstyp(en):
raac.

Could it be that the german version is not updated yet? The version info says "RealOne Player(tm) (win32) Version 2.0" I clicked on this link in your first post: http://www.realnetworks.com/info/real10_platform/
At RealPlayer 10 I clicked at "Learn more" and was redirected to:
http://germany.real.com/index.html?lang=de-DE&loc=de
Here I clicked at "Gratis RealOne Player", then on "Nur RealOne Player-Gratisversion runterladen", I arrived at this downloadpage:
http://forms.real.com/real/realone/i...1pb&nonrdx=yes
Does Real 10 Platform info-page link to an old Player??

[karl_lillevold]

I don't know whether or not AU for the German player has been updated with AAC, but it does not appear to be.

The English version of RealPlayer 10 Beta includes raac (the one that crashes with HE-AAC in RM, but works for AAC in RM). Please see the FAQ in the first post, RealPlayer 10 section, which I edited right now, for a direct download link with no re-directions.

The problem with your download appears to be the German locale website has not been updated, probably because the German version of RealPlayer 10 Beta is not yet ready.

[S_O]

The problem with your download appears to be the German locale website has not been updated, probably because the German version of RealPlayer 10 Beta is not yet ready.

It´s not very intelligent to link the local sites from the Real10-Info when they doesn´t excist yet. Maybe something like "Unfortunately a german version of RealPlayer Version ?? ist not avaible yet. You can download the english version here or download Version ?? in german here"
Since a german version isn´t avaible yet and it is still buggy I´ll delete the player and install the alternative again.

[karl_lillevold]

yes, I had already sent an e-mail about the web re-direction problem before your latest reply. Hopefully it can be fixed. It is very confusing. Thanks for noting this problem!

[karl_lillevold]

I was playing around with various AAC file types and found out that MP4 wrapped files play back fine in RealPlayer, but only after a .aac file has been played to obtain the necessary components via auto-update. Could someone try to verify? Changes to the FAQ:

Which file formats for AAC and HE-AAC are supported in RealPlayer 10?
RM of course *). Raw ADTS (.aac) plays back without problems. MP4 wrapped AAC and HE-AAC files also play, but auto-update does not work for mp4. To get the components needed, try to open .aac file in RealPlayer. RealPlayer will auto-update with plugins for H.263 Video and 3GPP. Don't worry, this also means AAC. Also read the next question.
*) minus HE-AAC in RM, due to a bug. Fix shortly.

When I try to open .aac or .mp4 file in RealPlayer 10, it opens the web browser to play the file, instead of running auto-update
This is caused by the .aac or .mp4 filetype being registered on your system. It is unfortunate that in order to get around this, you have to delete the filetype you are trying to open (AAC or MP4). It is easy to re-create though afterwards, with whichever is your player for this format.

AAC 5.1 playback

AAC 5.1 playback works in RealPlayer.

AAC samples

http://www.lillevold.com/files/aac_samples/

Status

RM                      RP10 MPC*)WMP6.4**)
rm_aac128.rm          |  ok | ok | ok
rm_aac256_51.rm       |  ok | ok | ok, no 5.1
rm_he-aac32.rm        |  #  | ok | ok
rm_he-aac96_51.rm     |  #1)| ok | #
ADTS                       
adts_aac64.aac        |  ok | ok | ok 
adts_he-aac64.aac     |  ok | ok | ok
adts_he-aac160_51.aac |  #  | #  | #
MP4
mp4_aac64.mp4         |  ok | ok | ok 
mp4_he-aac64.mp4      |  ok | ok | ok 
mp4_he-aac160_51.mp4  |  ok |ok2)| #

*) Media Player Classic 6.4.7.5 w internal RealMediaSplitter
**) with RealMediaSplitter 1.0.0.8
*)and**) 3ivx MP4 Media Splitter and CoreAAC or 3ivx audio decoder.

# = no go, usually crash
1) : stuttering
2) : OK with 3ivx decoder, crashed CoreAAC

To create MP4 I used mp4creator60. I notice that mp4info shows the two HE-AAC streams as AAC LC, so maybe I did something wrong when converting...

[gabest]

aac+96_51.rm also crashes coreaac, strange. I've already emailed to Toff about it, maybe he can tell why this happens.

[S_O]

aac+96_51.rm also crashes coreaac, strange. I've already emailed to Toff about it, maybe he can tell why this happens.

I remuxed the file to mp4:
WMP 6.4 (with 3ivx Splitter / CoreAAC): crash
foobar2000 0.7.7a: crash
faad 2.0 RC3 (Jan 11 2003 build from Rarewares): crash
Nero: Trial time expired

Most likely a bug in FAAD2, I yust upload the mp4 and write bug-report at audiocoding.com

Thanks for your fast work to update the splitter!

Edit: Bug-report finished: http://www.audiocoding.com/phorum/re...&i=4520&t=4520

[bond]

aac+160_51.aac also crashes coreaac and in_mp4 (winamp) for me
coreaac thinks its encoded using the main profile, altough it is he-aac (but as i already wrote he-aac doesnt get flagged in plain .aac files)

i guess the crashing reason is the wrongly detected main profile (well i hope real doesnt use main, could be also possible)

[SeeMoreDigital]

I can get aac+96_51.rm (ram) to play in MPC 6.4.7.4.

However, the stream is bearly audible (stammers) and the channels are not mapped correctly!

aac256_51.ram plays well, but once again the channels are not mapped correctly.

Cheers

[karl_lillevold]

I added a status summary for the AAC samples (see above), and I also included MP4 versions of the .aac files, created with mp4creator60. It is nice to see MPC play more RM files than RP 10, and also nice to see RP 10 play back MP4 files, including mp4_he-aac160_51.mp4.

Is there a DirectShow MP4 parser, such that I can get MPC to play MP4?

None of the players and filter/plugin combinations I tested play all files yet.

[satori]

I've tried to 2-pass VBR RV10 with RA10.
But Done result is alway delay video like half speed.
1-pass VBR is OK.
I used job file of "Desktop Downloadable Video.rpjf" in the sample folder of Helix producer10.
I just changed
AvgBitrate 1000000 to 500000
AvgFramerate 30 to 25 because my source is PAL.
Audio codec and flaver to raac 0(AAC 64kbps)

Please tell me what is wrong in the settings?

[bond]

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
I added a status summary for the AAC samples (see above), and I also included MP4 versions of the .aac files, created with mp4creator60.

this once again shows that plain .aac files without mp4 container are evil
anyone noticed that every decoder will detect he-aac-muxedfrom-.aac-to-.mp4 not as he-aac but as something else, ie lc-aac?

thats because he-aac isnt flagged as he-aac in a plain .aac stream and because of that when muxing this .aac into .mp4 how should anyone know if it is he-aac or not...

adts_he-aac64.aac | ok | ok | ok

make sure that winamp also plays the sbr part of he-aac i doubt it!

adts_he-aac160_51.aac | # | # | #

faads in_mp4 offers a downmix to stereo option if you dont have a multichannel system!

Is there a DirectShow MP4 parser, such that I can get MPC to play MP4?

sure to my knoweldge there are 4 available atm, checkout my mp4 faq, you can find the link in my signature
3ivx is great!

[S_O]

Is there a DirectShow MP4 parser, such that I can get MPC to play MP4?

3ivx Filters: http://www.3ivx.com/download/windows.html
As audio decoder you can use their own decoder or CoreAAC. I´m not sure, but I think they also use FAAD2 for decoding, so there shouldn´t be any difference between CoreAAC / 3ivx Audio Decoder.
Menno has answered me already (link to topic see last post), he already fixed the bug (something with LFE channel and SBR) and changes are already in CVS. Unfortunately anonymous CVS seems to be updated only once a day, I cannot get the latest code I compile CoreAAC with the newest FAAD2 yet. I also tested your files with WMP 6.4 using RealMediaSplitter 1.0.0.8, 3ivx MPEG-4 Parser 4.5 or AAC Parser 1.1 with CoreAAC 1.0b8.

RM                      WMP 6.4
rm_aac128.rm          |  ok
rm_aac256_51.rm       |  ok
rm_he-aac32.rm        |  ok
rm_he-aac96_51.rm     |  #
ADTS                       
adts_aac64.aac        |  ok
adts_he-aac64.aac     |  ok
adts_he-aac160_51.aac |  #
MP4
mp4_aac64.mp4         |  ok
mp4_he-aac64.mp4      |  ok
mp4_he-aac160_51.mp4  |  #

When I´ll get the new FAAD2 code I´ll compile CoreAAC and check again, I like to see ok everywhere.