eac3to - audio conversion tool - Page 438

kurt · 10th April 2009, 09:50

It's probably not the best place to ask, but what am I supposed to do with 23,975 mkvs? I think they don't play stutterfree on Popcorn Hour and what I'm doing righ now is to demux all streams and mux it new with mkvmerge while changing fps in the container to 24000/1001 --> no judder on PCH. I guess changeto23.976 would lead to the same effect.

But what about the audio? is the difference neglectable? or should I use changeto23,976 to the audiostreams? is there a quality loss when changing fps to the DTS stream?

Edit:

I did some math:

2h movie = 7200s

0,001 frames difference for 1s --> 7,2 frames in total.

1s ---- 23,976 frames
xs ---- 7,2 frames

x = 0,300s = 300 ms

hm, 300 ms is quite a bit. Should be noticed at the end, I think 25-50 ms is noticable... I looked into some remuxed videos and didn't see such difference at the end of the movies....

Am I missing something? maybe mkvmerge did changing the fps for both, video and audio? (which would be great btw)

tebasuna51 · 10th April 2009, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by 73ChargerFan

It has better bass & rear separation. DTS has always been better than dolby digital.

Is your respectable opinion, but not the results of blind test.

Remember we are talking about the same source encoded with ac3 (supposed well encoded) and dts (Surcode).

Better bass and rear separation?
The bass never is a problem for a encoder.
The rear separation must be in the source.

tbean · 10th April 2009, 19:50

When I test eac3to, the message regarding Nero Audio Decoder says:
"Nero Audio Decoder (Nero 7) is not working correctly
http://www.nero.com/eng/store-blu-ray.html"

When I try to access the link http://www.nero.com/eng/store-blu-ray.html, the page that comes up says nothing about the Nero Audio Decoder.

Can someone tell me the correct path to find the Nero Audio Decoder eac3to wants?

Thanks,
Tom

TinTime · 10th April 2009, 20:24

Unfortunately the blu-ray / hd-dvd plugin is not available any more.

ps3hacker · 11th April 2009, 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by tebasuna51

Is your respectable opinion, but not the results of blind test.

A dts file created from surcode will most definitely sound better than a core ac3 file if the source is the same. Such as a lossless audio track, like true hd. Remember, there is no magic way the studios have to encode an ac3 file. The same could be said of dts. Surcode outputs the same dts file as a studio would(if not very, very, close)

buzzqw · 11th April 2009, 12:09

@madshi

since eac3to (ffmpeg) is unable to decode correctly aac SBR and so want use nero decoder, would be possible to add support for Monogram AAC decoder (from radlight) ?
it's free/gpl

so, when aac sbr is to decode, check nero, else monogram, else ffmpeg

thanks

BHH

jamos · 11th April 2009, 13:04

@madshi

I am having issues with w64 madshi. same as tabasuna51 is. also when I use a w64 in tsmuxer it will give a error after a minute or so. Roman tried a large w64 that he created then used tsmuxer and it works fine for him. He suggested it may be a header error. This only happens using DTS-ma converted to W64. true-hd to W64 does not give a error but the w64 file seems small.

link
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...78#post1272478

jamos · 11th April 2009, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

If you're interested in why eac3to development has been slow recently, you may want to look here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228

very nice! love to see a GPU based renderer..

jamos · 13th April 2009, 00:53

Is it correct to have a w64 file be less size than the original true-hd file?

thats what I am getting when I convert a true-hd file to w64 using eac3to. When I convert the true-hd file to pcm it is 7 gig. compared to the original 2 gig. true-hd file (which seems correct).

ACrowley · 13th April 2009, 19:49

Mh, Strange.
eac3to gives Warnings on a lot of 23.976Fps 1080p x264 MKV/M2TS

M2TS, 1 video track, 2 audio tracks, 1:27:08, 24p /1.001
1: h264/AVC, 1920x800 23.976p (12:5)
2: DTS Hi-Res, German, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 3018kbps, 48khz
(core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 1509kbps, 48khz)
3: DTS, English, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 755kbps, 48khz
[v01] The video bitstream is encoded in a non-standard framerate. <WARNING>

But the Video is surely encoded in 23.976FPs (trough AVS with DGIndex/Decode). All other Tools/Palyser shows me correct 23.976Fps.

Whats wrong there?

13th April 2009, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACrowley

Mh, Strange.
eac3to gives Warnings on a lot of 23.976Fps 1080p x264 MKV/M2TS

M2TS, 1 video track, 2 audio tracks, 1:27:08, 24p /1.001
1: h264/AVC, 1920x800 23.976p (12:5)
2: DTS Hi-Res, German, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 3018kbps, 48khz
(core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 1509kbps, 48khz)
3: DTS, English, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 755kbps, 48khz
[v01] The video bitstream is encoded in a non-standard framerate. <WARNING>

But the Video is surely encoded in 23.976FPs (trough AVS with DGIndex/Decode). All other Tools/Palyser shows me correct 23.976Fps.

Whats wrong there?

The container says 24/1001 (which is a fraction, not a fixed number), but the video inside the container says 23.976 (which is a fixed number, not a fraction), so because of that mismatch you get a warning.

ACrowley · 13th April 2009, 20:03

ah ok thank you

But some x264 Files with 23.976fps are working without Warnings but other Files not ?

Found this Post by Madshi
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...postcount=8111

shon3i · 13th April 2009, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ps3hacker

A dts file created from surcode will most definitely sound better than a core ac3 file if the source is the same. Such as a lossless audio track, like true hd. Remember, there is no magic way the studios have to encode an ac3 file. The same could be said of dts. Surcode outputs the same dts file as a studio would(if not very, very, close)

I don't think so, DTS 1.5 have near quality as DD 448 and DTS is somewhere better, somewhere DD, but DD 640 produce alot better than any DTS codec including DTS Pro Suite Encoder, and Surcode. I doing some deep ABX, chanel vs chanel vs original with HD 650 earphones. Anyway EBU aslo find same in their Multichanel ABX and here is publicy doc http://www.ebu.ch/CMSimages/en/tec_d...tcm6-53801.pdf. DTS is very bad option for archiving except DTS HD-MA offcourse. It produce very large file and quality are not superb, not for my ears

IMHO

magic144 · 14th April 2009, 01:42

hi madshi, just to report...

"Bitstream parsing for track 3 failed" msg reported when running eac3to (3.15) on an mkvtoolnix/mkvmerge(2.6.0)-created .mkv file for a muxed VobSub track (3) created with BDSup2Sub 3.1.0 (i.e. idx/sub file pair source)
(other/first 2 tracks are h.264 720p video and DTS audio)

.mkv file plays just fine with ZoomPlayer using VSFilter

djesteban · 14th April 2009, 17:00

Guys, is there an advantage using eac3to to demux audio/video track instead of working with tsMuxer?... or do they do the exact same thing on this level?
Thanks

laserfan · 14th April 2009, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by djesteban

Guys, is there an advantage using eac3to to demux audio/video track instead of working with tsMuxer?...

AFAICT wrt demuxing, eac3to properly handles seamless branching discs (with attendant audio gaps) while tsMuxeR does not.

SomeJoe · 14th April 2009, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by shon3i

I don't think so, DTS 1.5 have near quality as DD 448 and DTS is somewhere better, somewhere DD, but DD 640 produce alot better than any DTS codec including DTS Pro Suite Encoder, and Surcode. I doing some deep ABX, chanel vs chanel vs original with HD 650 earphones. Anyway EBU aslo find same in their Multichanel ABX and here is publicy doc http://www.ebu.ch/CMSimages/en/tec_d...tcm6-53801.pdf. DTS is very bad option for archiving except DTS HD-MA offcourse. It produce very large file and quality are not superb, not for my ears

IMHO

Be careful when looking through that EBU document. Many of the test codecs are Dolby Digital Plus, not Dolby Digital.

In all the phase 1 codecs, DTS 1.5 Mbps outperformed every other codec. It outperformed DD 448kbps by a pretty substantial margin, and also outperformed (barely) DD+ 448 kbps.

Unfortunately, DD 640kbps was not tested. However, from some trends that you can identify throughout that data, DD640 should be very close to DTS 1.5M, maybe exceeds it, maybe not.

All performance measurements were done by ABX testing, by the way.

sucker · 15th April 2009, 18:24

i have a 6.1 DTS track from a PAL DVD (25 fps) and want to sync it to a Blu-ray (23.976 fps), what are my options for lossless conversion?
suppose i have no special encoder installed, i bet my only option would be the eac3to slowdown and conversion to PCM/WAV?
if i would have the Surcode DTS encoder i would be limited to 5.1 iirc?
just for a later possible case for a 5.1 track, would the reencoding with the Surcode DTS Encoder result in a lossless conversion or not? (in relation to the already lossy compressed DTS source)

ACrowley · 15th April 2009, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by sucker

i have a 6.1 DTS track from a PAL DVD (25 fps) and want to sync it to a Blu-ray (23.976 fps), what are my options for lossless conversion?
suppose i have no special encoder installed, i bet my only option would be the eac3to slowdown and conversion to PCM/WAV?
if i would have the Surcode DTS encoder i would be limited to 5.1 iirc?
just for a later possible case for a 5.1 track, would the reencoding with the Surcode DTS Encoder result in a lossless conversion or not? (in relation to the already lossy compressed DTS source)

lossless conversion is impossible. Reencoding (timestretch/Resampling+reencoding in your case) is always lossy (either you use lossless Formats like FLAC )

eac3to.exe yoursourcedts.dts output.wavs -slowdown -r8brain

You will get 7 mono waves (when its dts es 6.1 discrete, but only 5.1 output when its dts es matrix)

That will provide a "very" conversion from DTS ES 6.1 25fps to 23.976Fps

Also i wouldnt use Surcodode DTS Encoder. Its a low quality and outdated encoder. And you cant encode dts es 6.1 with surcode

DTS Pro Series is a certified Reference Encoder from DTS labs and outputs perfect quality.

But you can remux your Video to 25FPS lossless with MKVmerge. Then you can use your untouched 25fps DTS Track without any Conversion.
But ist not possible to timestrech Audio without reencoding.

sucker · 15th April 2009, 19:14

btw how do i get the 6.1 discrete (according to the packaging) track off the DVD? DVD Audio Ripper only shows 5.1 (direct demux option)
what would the -r8brain option in eac3to do, i believe it´s a better quality conversion or something like that, if yes what´s the difference to the standard eac3to conversion method? and what´s a "very" conversion? i´m still learning sorry for going on your nerves

can i use the Wav64 or PCM option in combination with r8brain to remux later with tsmuxer? tsmuxer can´t handle mono wavs afaik?

10th April 2009, 09:50	#8741 \| Link
kurt sidekick Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: old Europe Posts: 610	It's probably not the best place to ask, but what am I supposed to do with 23,975 mkvs? I think they don't play stutterfree on Popcorn Hour and what I'm doing righ now is to demux all streams and mux it new with mkvmerge while changing fps in the container to 24000/1001 --> no judder on PCH. I guess changeto23.976 would lead to the same effect. But what about the audio? is the difference neglectable? or should I use changeto23,976 to the audiostreams? is there a quality loss when changing fps to the DTS stream? Edit: I did some math: 2h movie = 7200s 0,001 frames difference for 1s --> 7,2 frames in total. 1s ---- 23,976 frames xs ---- 7,2 frames x = 0,300s = 300 ms hm, 300 ms is quite a bit. Should be noticed at the end, I think 25-50 ms is noticable... I looked into some remuxed videos and didn't see such difference at the end of the movies.... Am I missing something? maybe mkvmerge did changing the fps for both, video and audio? (which would be great btw) __________________ greets, kurt. Pioneer PDP-427 XA \| Popcorn Hour NMT C-200 \| Sony STR-DB 840 QS \| Canton Ergo 91 DC Last edited by kurt; 10th April 2009 at 12:28.

10th April 2009, 19:50	#8743 \| Link
tbean Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1	Nero Audio Decoder Link Broken When I test eac3to, the message regarding Nero Audio Decoder says: "Nero Audio Decoder (Nero 7) is not working correctly http://www.nero.com/eng/store-blu-ray.html" When I try to access the link http://www.nero.com/eng/store-blu-ray.html, the page that comes up says nothing about the Nero Audio Decoder. Can someone tell me the correct path to find the Nero Audio Decoder eac3to wants? Thanks, Tom

11th April 2009, 12:09	#8746 \| Link
buzzqw HDConvertToX author Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cesena,Italy Posts: 6,552	@madshi since eac3to (ffmpeg) is unable to decode correctly aac SBR and so want use nero decoder, would be possible to add support for Monogram AAC decoder (from radlight) ? it's free/gpl so, when aac sbr is to decode, check nero, else monogram, else ffmpeg thanks BHH __________________ HDConvertToX: your tool for BD backup MultiX264: The quick gui for x264 AutoMen: The Mencoder GUI AutoWebM: supporting WebM/VP8

11th April 2009, 13:04	#8747 \| Link
jamos Hey Now! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 812	@madshi I am having issues with w64 madshi. same as tabasuna51 is. also when I use a w64 in tsmuxer it will give a error after a minute or so. Roman tried a large w64 that he created then used tsmuxer and it works fine for him. He suggested it may be a header error. This only happens using DTS-ma converted to W64. true-hd to W64 does not give a error but the w64 file seems small. link http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...78#post1272478 Last edited by jamos; 13th April 2009 at 00:55.

14th April 2009, 01:42	#8754 \| Link
magic144 Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 395	hi madshi, just to report... "Bitstream parsing for track 3 failed" msg reported when running eac3to (3.15) on an mkvtoolnix/mkvmerge(2.6.0)-created .mkv file for a muxed VobSub track (3) created with BDSup2Sub 3.1.0 (i.e. idx/sub file pair source) (other/first 2 tracks are h.264 720p video and DTS audio) .mkv file plays just fine with ZoomPlayer using VSFilter Last edited by magic144; 14th April 2009 at 06:13.

10th April 2009, 20:24	#8744 \| Link
TinTime Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: UK Posts: 403	Unfortunately the blu-ray / hd-dvd plugin is not available any more.

13th April 2009, 00:53	#8749 \| Link
jamos Hey Now! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 812	Is it correct to have a w64 file be less size than the original true-hd file? thats what I am getting when I convert a true-hd file to w64 using eac3to. When I convert the true-hd file to pcm it is 7 gig. compared to the original 2 gig. true-hd file (which seems correct).

13th April 2009, 19:49	#8750 \| Link
ACrowley Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,008	Mh, Strange. eac3to gives Warnings on a lot of 23.976Fps 1080p x264 MKV/M2TS M2TS, 1 video track, 2 audio tracks, 1:27:08, 24p /1.001 1: h264/AVC, 1920x800 23.976p (12:5) 2: DTS Hi-Res, German, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 3018kbps, 48khz (core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 1509kbps, 48khz) 3: DTS, English, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 755kbps, 48khz [v01] The video bitstream is encoded in a non-standard framerate. <WARNING> But the Video is surely encoded in 23.976FPs (trough AVS with DGIndex/Decode). All other Tools/Palyser shows me correct 23.976Fps. Whats wrong there?

13th April 2009, 20:03	#8752 \| Link
ACrowley Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,008	ah ok thank you But some x264 Files with 23.976fps are working without Warnings but other Files not ? Found this Post by Madshi http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...postcount=8111

14th April 2009, 17:00	#8755 \| Link
djesteban Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 112	Guys, is there an advantage using eac3to to demux audio/video track instead of working with tsMuxer?... or do they do the exact same thing on this level? Thanks

15th April 2009, 18:24	#8758 \| Link
sucker Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 25	i have a 6.1 DTS track from a PAL DVD (25 fps) and want to sync it to a Blu-ray (23.976 fps), what are my options for lossless conversion? suppose i have no special encoder installed, i bet my only option would be the eac3to slowdown and conversion to PCM/WAV? if i would have the Surcode DTS encoder i would be limited to 5.1 iirc? just for a later possible case for a 5.1 track, would the reencoding with the Surcode DTS Encoder result in a lossless conversion or not? (in relation to the already lossy compressed DTS source)

15th April 2009, 19:14	#8760 \| Link
sucker Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 25	btw how do i get the 6.1 discrete (according to the packaging) track off the DVD? DVD Audio Ripper only shows 5.1 (direct demux option) what would the -r8brain option in eac3to do, i believe it´s a better quality conversion or something like that, if yes what´s the difference to the standard eac3to conversion method? and what´s a "very" conversion? i´m still learning sorry for going on your nerves can i use the Wav64 or PCM option in combination with r8brain to remux later with tsmuxer? tsmuxer can´t handle mono wavs afaik?