madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[James Freeman]

Originally Posted by madshi

I can reproduce the artifacts. Not sure why they occur, maybe I'll look at that later.

Originally Posted by madshi

Those artifacts you're seeing in that test pattern, nobody has ever reported or seen them yet. Neither in another test pattern, nor in a movie. So I doubt it's a common issue. Probably nothing to worry about.

Please try this video to see lots of artifacts with Jinc (Chroma Upscaling):
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ws..._bar_tests.mkv

Its the same pattern but compressed differently.
I found this one on the AVSForum board.

Originally Posted by madshi

Jinc does not lose any detail. It might not always be as sharp as Lanczos, but that's not due to lost detail, that's due to lower aliasing.

Yes, I understand this.

But I still prefer how the "four way" look compared to "circular".
Jinc is too smooth.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by leeperry

I would have prefered that you add a TOTL denoiser for upscaled SD instead of debanding as the latter would appear to always kill small details, but I reckon that some videos can look quite posterized sometimes so be it...

Have you actually tested the madVR debanding algorithm yet? It should not kill detail (in any way worth mentioning) with the current "low" settings we've discussed in this thread.

I'm not a fan of noise/grain reduction at all. So that will probably be the very last algorithm I'll ever look into (if ever at all). If you think that debanding kills detail then what does noise reduction do? It's a hundred times more destructive to detail than (proper) debanding is, IMHO.

Originally Posted by turbojet

I let madvr change at playback start but not at end. 80%+ of what's watched is 24fps. Changing it to 60hz at the end does fix the issue but another way I found is restarting dwm. Unfortunately I couldn't find a way to do it without admin or logging off/on. One way it could be done is calling sc stop/start with a program that stores admin credentials but that's a security risk, although it might be what I end up doing. How does madvr disable/enable composition?

Madvr could resolve the issue by restarting composition when display and composition rates do not match. Is this something that sounds reasonable?

I'm already disabling and reenabling composition after every display mode change. Are you sure that there's no other software that changes display modes without you noticing? E.g. Reclock or MPC-HC?

Originally Posted by Razoola

Like you say from my findings something some thing is going wrong somewhere but I'm not saying its the fault of madVR.

It is very probably not the fault of madVR. Try bypassing your AVR. And make sure your GPU is really set to 0-255. You'll need to trick especially NVidia and Intel GPUs into 0-255 mode. They don't do that by default.

Originally Posted by Razoola

That still leaves the question of how you want the pattern in question to look.

Some people say you want black at bar 16, white at 235 while I've seen others say you want black at 16 and white at about 20% over 235 (around 242). The calibration videos included say you want white right up to 254 if you can

There's been a long thread on AVSForum about this. The general consensus seems to be that most Blu-Rays end (with true data) at 235, but some broadcasts seem to go up to 254. The specs call for 16-235, so that's what I would recommend to use. Of course you can go higher than 235 if you're afraid of clipping white, but that will come at a noticeable loss of brightness. I'd rather calibrate the display to do its best with proper material. Of course that's only my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by sebdelsol

It seems that madVR use a IDirect3DDevice9Ex ?

Yes, unless you activate the old FSE rendering path ("present several frames in advance" unchecked), then I have to use IDirect3DDevice9, because the old path doesn't work with IDirect3DDevice9Ex.

Originally Posted by James Freeman

But I still prefer how the "four way" look compared to "circular".
Jinc is too smooth.

I can understand if you like the small sharpness advantage Lanczos has over Jinc. But there's really no such thing as "too smooth". Nature is smooth. You won't find aliasing in nature. Aliasing is an artifact of digital video / image processing, and there's no good side to it.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

Have you actually tested the madVR debanding algorithm yet? It should not kill detail (in any way worth mentioning) with the current "low" settings we've discussed in this thread.

I'm not a fan of noise/grain reduction at all. So that will probably be the very last algorithm I'll ever look into (if ever at all). If you think that debanding kills detail then what does noise reduction do? It's a hundred times more destructive to detail than (proper) debanding is, IMHO.

My point is that J3AR is great for upscaling SD but this level of accuracy requires a 4:4:4 display and then noise becomes a large problem IME, be it with computer monitors or TV's that disable their 4:2:2 built-in video processing.

I've found a few denoising PS scripts but all they really do is blur the picture, no more noise heh. I would entirely be willing to compromise small details for MPEG deblocking or VHS noise suppression. Sammy and especially Hitachi TV's do it really well IMHO but of course it's all 4:2:2.

I'm colorblind so judging on deposterizing is not an easy task for me and I'll give you that I've only looked at the worst case scenario screenshots posted in this thread, I'm sure the optimal settings you'll all agree upon will be well worth playing around with

Originally Posted by madshi

The general consensus seems to be that most Blu-Rays end (with true data) at 235, but some broadcasts seem to go up to 254.

FWIW, Seb.26 implemented some sort of dynamic levels code in ffdshow a while ago:

There are indeed cases when you can find valuable data in the BTB/WTW but this can also end up being bogus padding and ffdshow works in 8bit anyway.

Originally Posted by madshi

I can understand if you like the small sharpness advantage Lanczos has over Jinc. But there's really no such thing as "too smooth". Nature is smooth. You won't find aliasing in nature. Aliasing is an artifact of digital video / image processing, and there's no good side to it.

Yep, J3AR looks so natural....neither blurry like Bicubic or "digital" like Lanczos, yet another one-way ticket but it's still a major bummer that no picture viewer offers anything better than Lanczos

I think MPC can open JPG's so I could force the sRGB gamut in mVR et voilà. I'll try to get it to open PNG, GIF, RAR and ZIP. All I would need is a way to go between "1:1 scale" and "shrink to fit", which is not currently possible I think..

[James Freeman]

Another Chroma Upsampling test video to test which upsampler does a better job.

There are 2 versions inside.

1. 4:4:4, no chroma samplig at all (perfect RGB).
2. 4:2:0, a typical video chroma subsampling (BR/DVD).

For the 1080p Version:
Set MPC like so to keep 1:1 pixel ratio:
View -> Video Frame -> Normal Size.

For the DVD, set to Default "Touch Window From Inside"
and stretch the window to fullscreen.

Play the 4:2:0 video and pause it anywhere.
Now play with the "Chroma Upscaling" options.

Tell me what difference you see with Jinc, Lanczos, Bilinear, and Nearest Neighbor.

[LilScrappy]

please for advice, what is the best options for Exclusive Mode Settings - ( how many video frames shall be presented in advance 1-16 ? ) when is disabled Smooth Motion !
or when i use 24hz for my TV no matters what is Smooth Motion on or off is not functional when is play movie ?

[turbojet]

Originally Posted by madshi

I'm already disabling and reenabling composition after every display mode change. Are you sure that there's no other software that changes display modes without you noticing? E.g. Reclock or MPC-HC?

It's not the display mode changing, it's the display itself. Going from a 72/50hz monitor to a 60hz tv and vice versa. Reclock isn't installed and players display mode changer is disabled. Changing display modes of the monitor works fine with madvr.

I was able to come up with a solution with very little to no security risk with a batch file:

DisplaySwitch.exe /internal  ::or /external for TV
runasspc /cryptfile:"dwm.stop.spc" /quiet
runasspc /cryptfile:"dwm.start.spc" /quiet

dwm.start/stop.spc is an encrypted file containing admin credentials and sc start/stop uxsms.

[dansrfe]

Why is the composition rate set to the refresh rate of the primary display? Is this a flaw in Aero?

[James Freeman]

Although not the place, but I am happy to announce that the latest MPC-HC Nighty (LAV Filters 58.2.105) supports HEVC/H.265 & VP9 and works perfectly with MadVR.

A new era has began.

EDIT:
LAV 0.59 is out few minutes ago.

[Werewolfy]

Originally Posted by madshi

I'm not sure. Sometimes things look different to a computer algorithm, compared to what our eyes see. I can investigate if you want, but I'd need a video sample for that.

Here's the video sample http://www.mediafire.com/download/8j...me.free.fr.avi

Originally Posted by madshi

I'm not a fan of noise/grain reduction at all. So that will probably be the very last algorithm I'll ever look into (if ever at all). If you think that debanding kills detail then what does noise reduction do? It's a hundred times more destructive to detail than (proper) debanding is, IMHO.

I'm using FluxSmooth for the moment and with a good combination of spatial (value = 2) and temporal (value = 4) denoising, it doesn't destroy details and can be very useful with DVD, bad videos and even some mkv. It's like all postprocessing filters, it needs to be well configured. FluxSmooth has also the advantage to try to preserve the grain and just reduce the noise. I'd really like that one day you make a good denoising filter. I don't like AviSynth it's very buggy sometimes.

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Another Chroma Upsampling test video to test which upsampler does a better job.

There are 2 versions inside.

1. 4:4:4, no chroma samplig at all (perfect RGB).
2. 4:2:0, a typical video chroma subsampling (BR/DVD).

For the 1080p Version:
Set MPC like so to keep 1:1 pixel ratio:
View -> Video Frame -> Normal Size.

For the DVD, set to Default "Touch Window From Inside"
and stretch the window to fullscreen.

Play the 4:2:0 video and pause it anywhere.
Now play with the "Chroma Upscaling" options.

Tell me what difference you see with Jinc, Lanczos, Bilinear, and Nearest Neighbor.

Nearest Neighbor has a lot of aliasing, Bilinear is a little too soft. I can't really see a difference between Bicubic, Lanczos and Jinc. I don't think that using Lanczos for chroma is a good idea. If you don't have the power to use Jinc, use Bicubic 75 + AR. Some people recommend to use Softcubic, it's a mistake, it's really too blur.

I was wondering, why does your video in 4:4:4 crash all the times with Ffdshow? It doesn't support 4:4:4? I use it only for some postprocessing filters.

[detmek]

Originally Posted by LilScrappy

please for advice, what is the best options for Exclusive Mode Settings - ( how many video frames shall be presented in advance 1-16 ? ) when is disabled Smooth Motion !
or when i use 24hz for my TV no matters what is Smooth Motion on or off is not functional when is play movie ?

1. Don't ask for best as it is against forum rules.
2. Don't change default settings unless you have problems like dropped or delayed frames.

[James Freeman]

Originally Posted by Werewolfy

.....I can't really see a difference between Bicubic, Lanczos and Jinc.

My thoughts exactly.

Anything above Bicubic+AR (or even Bilinear) for chroma upscaling is an overkill.
Although I still use Lanczos3+AR.

EDIT:
I added a more comprehensive Resolution Upscaling test in this post:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...ostcount=20688

As you can see the difference is small to indistinguishable, except when the pixels are aligned in a
perfect diagonal (pixel by pixel), only then I see Jinc is doing something positive.
In all other diagonals Jinc just blurring them.

Originally Posted by Werewolfy

I was wondering, why does your video in 4:4:4 crash all the times with Ffdshow?

I have no idea.

I used the most basic settings in x264 for converting:
"x264.exe -o output.mkv input.mp4"

[Devrim]

Anyone else having issues with this sample with madvr? I just get a black screen.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1651083#post1651083

In EVR it plays without issue

[huhn]

EDIT:
I added a more comprehensive Resolution Upscaling test in this post:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...ostcount=20688

As you can see the difference is small to indistinguishable, except when the pixels are aligned in a
perfect diagonal (pixel by pixel), only then I see Jinc is doing something positive.
In all other diagonals Jinc just blurring them.

bilinear
http://i46.img-up.net/bilineare1fb.png
jinc 3 ar
http://v87.img-up.net/jinc3ara146.png

just have a look at the red 29 in the top right is better to read with jinc 3 ar

and the red border in the middle bottom is way better too

[James Freeman]

Originally Posted by Devrim

Anyone else having issues with this sample with madvr? I just get a black screen.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1651083#post1651083

In EVR it plays without issue

Yeah.

Edit:
Try to disable Smooth Motion or dithering or change the Image Downscaling.

[sneaker_ger]

No problem with that sample here.
Radeon HD5850, Cat 13.11 Beta 8, Win7 x64
Laczos 3 Chroma Upscaling(AR), Catmull-Rom Downscaling(AR, LL) to 1920x1080 rectangle, dithering on

[James Freeman]

Originally Posted by huhn

just have a look at the red 29 in the top right is better to read with jinc 3 ar

and the red border in the middle bottom is way better too

Looks like you comparing Chroma Upscaling not Image Upscaling.
It does look better compared to Bilinear.

But I still can't see difference between Bicubic and Jinc in Chroma Upscaling.

IMO,
Jinc for Image Upscaling is way too soft and hogs too much resources, Bicubic will do just fine and nothing beyond is visible OR needed.
For Chroma, again nothing beyond Bicubic is needed.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by Devrim

Anyone else having issues with this sample with madvr? I just get a black screen.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1651083#post1651083

In EVR it plays without issue

works fine but the video kills my phenom 2 x4

[Chumbo]

Originally Posted by madshi

The blinking sounds weird. Nobody else has ever reported that before, so it might be something specific to your PC, or maybe it's a driver issue or something. Don't know. The new rendering path works best on Windows 7 or Windows 8. XP really doesn't have any good rendering path, IMHO. The old FSE mode works "ok", but it's not really great.

Funny enough, I just ran into this strange "blinking" yesterday (only in windowed mode) and was about to post for some help but delved into the madVR settings and found a solution under scaling algorithms. Note that this is NOT an issue in full-screen exclusive mode.

This only happens when image upscaling/downscaling are set to use any of the options under processing done by custom pixel shader code (unaffected by chroma upscaling setting). Once I set these to use an options under either processing done by GPU texture units or processing done by GPU video logic windowed mode works fine.

My laptop uses an nVIDIA GeForce GT 635M with the latest 331.65 driver. Not sure if this is a driver issue or not.

[Ver Greeneyes]

From what I've heard a lot of people have reported problems with shaders and recent drivers on Nvidia cards (not madVR specific), so that might be related. Haven't seen any problems with madVR on my GeForce GTX 580 though.

[turbojet]

Originally Posted by dansrfe

Why is the composition rate set to the refresh rate of the primary display? Is this a flaw in Aero?

I noticed this awhile back, can't remember what madshi said about it though. Not sure if aero is, or ever will be, capable of dealing with different refresh rates. Overlay and FSE work fine however. EVR and/or disabling composition fails.

Originally Posted by Devrim

Anyone else having issues with this sample with madvr? I just get a black screen.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1651083#post1651083

In EVR it plays without issue

Try lowering GPU queue, going from 8 to 4 with 1GB vram worked for me.