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Old 17th July 2016, 22:08   #38801  |  Link
CarlosCaco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

No, I didn't change anything in that area from .22 to .23.
so in .22 it should be working with simple upscaling without (supersampling) 1280x720 to 1366x768?
in this case not working only working with supersampling...
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Old 17th July 2016, 22:16   #38802  |  Link
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Originally Posted by pose View Post
ShiftyFella, performance of your 290x is amazing! I really hope that RX 480 will perform as well but i doubt it after seeing Sunset1982 test. He compared RX 480 to GTX 970 and they are pretty close in terms of performance. If i remember correctly, back in the days NNEDI3 worked faster on AMD cards and my 7870 were faster than 970. Maybe things changed since then but this is really concerns me.
I don't have 4k screen, otherwise I would do his test to compare numbers but at 1440p and setting I mentioned earlier, render time difference is about 1-2ms and sometimes less as you don't have to do downscaling from doubled 720p image

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes View Post
Maybe banding was the wrong word, but the sun looks odd to me with 100% luminance reduction
I think there is no perfect settings to this clip, looks at this scene:
100% luminance 0% saturation: http://i.imgur.com/GP9KSYC.jpg
0% luminance 100% saturation: http://i.imgur.com/6e5DiMB.jpg

either setting produces wrong clouds

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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
The encode has values up to 10,000 nits which is clearly wrong. madVR has no idea how to handle this situation since it has no idea what the values should be. It makes no sense to tune an algorithm to faulty input data.
I guess you're right, at least sony demo stays withing 4000 nits. too bad there are so few hdr demos that you can play with madvr that are publicly available
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Old 17th July 2016, 22:20   #38803  |  Link
Uoppi
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post

There's one more thing I might have changed: In older versions when there was image doubling -> downscaling, IIRC I ran upscaling refinement on the downscaled final res. I might have changed that to run on the doubled image before downscaling. Which of course would also increase render times, but should also improve image quality.
Seems like this is what was causing the higher rendering times on versions after .20, at least in my case that is.

Any chance the old upscale refinement procedure could return as a trade quality for performance option (if there's a meaningful reason for that PQ-wise in the first place)?

Interestingly, for 720p -> 1080p upscales with SR2, I'm getting identical (practically to the millisecond) processing times for:

a) SSIM 2D on v.20
b) SSIM 1D on versions after .20

I currently lack the time to do any meaningful comparisons, but I'd be curious to know theoretically at least which one should provide the better PQ. I've settled on SSIM 1D for now because it's a bit more efficient than Jinc.

Last edited by Uoppi; 17th July 2016 at 22:24.
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Old 17th July 2016, 22:51   #38804  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes View Post
Maybe banding was the wrong word, but the sun looks odd to me with 100% luminance reduction.
yes, I see what you mean and after checking it here there is some sort of artifact @100%, 0% or 25% looked ok.

This scene looked best at 50/50, so I think this method is too scene dependent.

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Old 17th July 2016, 22:57   #38805  |  Link
x7007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post




Can you please make a screenshot of the Ctrl+J OSD with these "worst quality" settings where the render queue doesn't fill in windowed mode?
I'll make as soon as I'm at work

It's weird. When I'm in Windowed mode and focused on the potplayer window it lowers the Queues . When I'm not in focus it goes back to full .... LoL

Every time I click outside the video on desktop or something else and back on the video, the Queue changes and goes back again. After I did it couple of times the Queue are actually fine now. but it still changes to low - bad to high - good if I keep clicking like before.




Last edited by x7007; 17th July 2016 at 23:01.
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Old 18th July 2016, 00:04   #38806  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyFella View Post
To my eyes camp looked better with 100% luminance
From my results with a Sony X8500D using the Cinema Pro preset I'd agree with this but maybe as madshi said we should be trying some other mixed options to find something that works well for most content.
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Old 18th July 2016, 04:47   #38807  |  Link
James Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
The chess demo is encoded incorrectly- I wouldn't use it for eval.
I agree, madVR relies on the metadata and selected peak luminance value.
This Chess demo unfortunately is not a good source for testing.
Out of the two free demos we have, both are a total mess in terms of encoding and metadata.
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Old 18th July 2016, 06:15   #38808  |  Link
K2mil
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Don't think anyone else does. Is it FSE mode? Are you using D3D11? Windowed overlay? Are you changing refresh rates? You could always just stay in windowed mode. Did you do a fresh install of your drivers of did you just install the 1070 straight in after taking out another Nvidia card?


Thanks I didn't have D3D11 checked now It seams to work perfect now. Yes I always do clean installation of drivers.

Any settings suggestion you would shear I'm very new to this and there is over 1000 pages

I should add that I'm on 1440p 144hz mostly playing mp4 1080p
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Old 18th July 2016, 09:28   #38809  |  Link
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I have a couple of observations to report. First, the "ShowRenderSteps" trick is very cool, would be nice if the list continued in a second column so we can see everything, but it is what it is. Second, the "ShowRenderSteps" is actually more demanding than regular OSD... pushes my 720p profile way over the edge, more than likely due the many more lines of info that need to be drawn, again it is what it is and not a big deal.

Now to the important info to report, My setup: 1280x720 ==> 1024x768

1) Upscaling Refinements definitely were not being used in version 0.90.20... I had never noticed since I never really tested them, I had just copied a previous profile where upscaling refinement was actually being used when I created the 720p profiles. So it is good to know that what I thought was a spectacular image had nothing to do with US Refinements.

2) SSIM Downscaling is NOT being used in version 0.90.23 and this is very noticeable, Bicubic150 AR is OK, but I truly do prefer SSIM2D-100 w/AR-Relaxed

Here are some screen shots:

v0.90.23



v0.90.20



So I am going to stick with v0.90.20, but not for the reason I had originally thought (the "performance" hit)... broken downscaling is the real reason to stick with the older version.

QB
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Old 18th July 2016, 19:37   #38810  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
I truly do prefer SSIM2D-100 w/AR-Relaxed
IIRC the relaxed/strict subsetting for downscaling AR doesn't do anything with SSIM?
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Old 18th July 2016, 20:01   #38811  |  Link
QBhd
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
IIRC the relaxed/strict subsetting for downscaling AR doesn't do anything with SSIM?
Hmmm, I thought I had tested that and noticed a difference and stuck with the relaxed setting... either way, it's soft or relaxed or NO AR... I'll stick with AR on.

QB
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Old 18th July 2016, 20:14   #38812  |  Link
leeperry
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Hmmm, I thought I had tested that and noticed a difference and stuck with the relaxed setting... either way, it's soft or relaxed or NO AR... I'll stick with AR on.
I hear you, it all get pretty confusing at times.....anyway if SR AB is gone for good, I'll try my luck adding AB at the downscaling stage on top of SSIM 2D 100%. I forgot it's even there as I can't read it at all(using big fonts on W7).
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Old 18th July 2016, 20:30   #38813  |  Link
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Addition to my report from above:

SSIM downscaling in v0.90.23 does work for a full downscale (i.e. 1920x1080 ==> 1024x768)... last night I had forgot to check that scenario. So again it seems that mixed scaling is to blame

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Old 19th July 2016, 15:44   #38814  |  Link
Mano
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Hi madshi, are you still using AMD card? If yes what driver version are you using?
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Old 19th July 2016, 20:35   #38815  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by K2mil View Post
Thanks I didn't have D3D11 checked now It seams to work perfect now. Yes I always do clean installation of drivers.

Any settings suggestion you would shear I'm very new to this and there is over 1000 pages

I should add that I'm on 1440p 144hz mostly playing mp4 1080p
Try the guide in my signature.
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Old 19th July 2016, 20:58   #38816  |  Link
Georgel
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I've been using madVR with no Dithering at all for the past two months. It's better this way with anime.

When dithering is active, the background moves around a lot and is distracting, it gives a sense of flickering / a sense that there is something wrong with the screen.

At any rate, the dithering algorithms are great by themselves, it's just not that great with anime.

In other order of thoughts, seems the newest version of madVR works great for me!
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Old 19th July 2016, 21:02   #38817  |  Link
Sunset1982
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I ordered a GTX1060 today. Will add it to my comparison end of this week...
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Old 19th July 2016, 22:20   #38818  |  Link
pose
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Georgel, what setting do you use for 720p anime? Sunset1982 i will be waiting!
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Old 19th July 2016, 22:45   #38819  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by Georgel View Post
I've been using madVR with no Dithering at all for the past two months. It's better this way with anime.

When dithering is active, the background moves around a lot and is distracting, it gives a sense of flickering / a sense that there is something wrong with the screen.

At any rate, the dithering algorithms are great by themselves, it's just not that great with anime.

In other order of thoughts, seems the newest version of madVR works great for me!
You do not need to turn off dithering! To keep the background still simply turn off "change dither for every frame".

Dithering is very important for anime! Doesn't the banding bother you without it?
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Old 19th July 2016, 22:50   #38820  |  Link
pose
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Asmodian, can i also ask you which settings you prefer for anime?
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