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Old 18th May 2009, 11:08   #1101  |  Link
Hypernova
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post
Which is interesting, as according to the sig, Hypernova has a HD2600 Pro 512mb.

I have a HD2600XT 256mb, which is a tiny bit faster, and I have no problems at all. (But I am watching 1920x1080 material at 1920x1080, so only Chroma scaling).
You are the reason why I'm still trying . But I do agree with yesgrey3. Like I said before, I can scale to 1080p with SoftCubic50/100 and get smooth playback. Using Lanzcos/Spline, I can't get smooth playback at 1080p. At my fullscreen resolution, however, only Bilinear will give me smooth playback. So it looks like it is the GPU speed limit and nothing else. But upload/render queue are safely above 4 at all time. So madshi still gives me some hope, and I still hold on to that

This last piece of result seems to crush my hope though. I tried 29.970 1080p video and it looks like my GPU can't really keep up even without any scaling (in windows mode). In this case, upload/render queue are ~ 1 and 3 respectively.
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Last edited by Hypernova; 18th May 2009 at 11:12.
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Old 18th May 2009, 11:14   #1102  |  Link
Mike5
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I tested on Win7 RC1, x86, HD4650, Catalyst 9.4, MPC-HC, ReClock on.

Now the refresh rate is Ok (50.00XXX). A few (2-5) dropped or delayed frames only at the beginning and on seek. Playing is smooth.

Decoder queue 16/16
upload queue 5-8/8
render queue 6-8/8

BTW, what do these numbers mean ?
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Old 18th May 2009, 11:33   #1103  |  Link
Mark_A_W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoD View Post
I'm sorry to inform you, but the external vsfilter is more advanced in the features it supports than the internal MPC one. As for Haali's renderer, subtitle rendering happens with MPC by using vsfilter callbacks, so Haali's renderer doesn't magically use any other subtitling code, it's still vsfilter that does the job.

Similar advice to Mark_A_W, who also somehow believes Haali's renderer has a subtitler incorporated. Just use the vsfilter.dll I've linked to in a previous post, and be done with it. No more "madVR doesn't support subtitles" nonsense, please. This is the fourth time I write about this, but some people seem to have selective blindness.

Ok, I fixed it, thanks for pointing it out.

Yes, VSfilter.dll version 2.39 works fine.

I had an older version of DirectVobSub.ax lurking in Windows32, and it was causing chaos.

So the only bug I *really* need fixed is the Screensaver/Power settings not being disabled.

With that working I can go to MadVR as my primary renderer (that means using it to watch a movie with guests present...that's when all hell usually breaks loose!).


Thanks

Mark
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Old 18th May 2009, 13:09   #1104  |  Link
Hypernova
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Could someone write a small tutorial on how to get subtitles working?
It seems to me that you have to choose madVR at output page only. I always choose madVR using External Filter page and set it to prefer, but this seem to not work with VSFiler.

On the subtitle topic, I just tried 2.39, and I still prefer MPC-HC internal subtitle renderer because I can choose to render it at high resolution. I know VSFilter is more accurate than MPC-HC's internal (and ffdshow is worse of the three), but the high resolution text still win over, as I have to do a pretty big upscaling.

So I'm still waiting for madVR subtitle support
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Old 18th May 2009, 13:20   #1105  |  Link
tetsuo55
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thanks Hypernova, that did the trick
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Old 18th May 2009, 13:22   #1106  |  Link
sucht
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first of all Sorry for my bad English.

secondly i love this renderer.

... but i have a little problem here, that i try to explain.

together with madVR i use *.3dlut files with color corection for my Sony HDTV (i have all the primaries for my TV).

and i used them (the same primaries for my TV) for quite some time now, in a shader code taken from this thread at -> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=912720 , together with VMR9 renderer, MPC-HC on WinXP.

the player i use the whole time is MPC-HC, and i want to use madVR, basicly because it gives the best picture, but everytime i use madVR together with the(from me) created *.3dlut file there are black spots or something like that(sorry don't know how to call them) like in this picture -> http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2...rwith3dlut.png ,you can see them in the face of the women in front, over the safe on the wall and some other places in the picture.
without the *.3dlut file there are no problems at all(beside the wrong colors) -> http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5...thout3dlut.png .

i've also made 2 more screenshots for comparsion, were i used VMR9 together with the color corection shader code, -> http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7...correction.png , "without such black spots like in the screenshots above with madVR as renderer with *.3dlut".
and here without the color corection shader code -> http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2...lorcorecti.png .

i use ffdshow as decoder and scaling to 1080p and Lanczos 4tap, for VMR9.
and for madVR i also use ffdshow as decoder, but without scaling to 1080p because this scaling job does madVR.
i tryed all the options within madVR's UI, but it stays the same.
the only thing is not to use the *.3dlut files, but then again i can not use the color corection

these are the options in my *.3dlut files
# Set input bitdepth
Input_Bit_Depth 8

# Set source video format
Input_Video_Format NTSC(or PAL_DVD, HD) YCbCr

# Set output bitdepth
Output_Bit_Depth 16

# Set display video format
Output_Video_Format NTSC(or PAL_DVD, HD) RGB_Video
Output_Primaries 9 0.648 0.332 0.195 0.636 0.149 0.060 0.302 0.322

i have the problem with, HD (blu-ray, HDDVD), SD (NTSC, PAL) and all the kinds of avi, mp4, mkv ... etc.

so my question is, am i doing something wrong?
or is it a problem with madVR or the *.3dlut creation file(cr3dlut.exe)?


again sorry for my bad english, as it's not my native language :/
and i hope the stuff i wrote can be understand.
and i'm sorry if this is not the right thread to post my problem.


ciao
thomas
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Old 18th May 2009, 13:27   #1107  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoD View Post
I'm sorry to inform you, but the external vsfilter is more advanced in the features it supports than the internal MPC one. As for Haali's renderer, subtitle rendering happens with MPC by using vsfilter callbacks, so Haali's renderer doesn't magically use any other subtitling code, it's still vsfilter that does the job.

Similar advice to Mark_A_W, who also somehow believes Haali's renderer has a subtitler incorporated. Just use the vsfilter.dll I've linked to in a previous post, and be done with it. No more "madVR doesn't support subtitles" nonsense, please. This is the fourth time I write about this, but some people seem to have selective blindness.
KoD what does the external filter do that the internal one does not? (they should be identical exept for the ability to work on other players)

What you're basically saying is that the internal renderer not working (correctly) with HR or MVR is a regression/bug
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Old 18th May 2009, 14:21   #1108  |  Link
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Hey guys, I don't want to throw a spanner in the works here, but take a look at these screenshots of the DVE PAL Geometry test pattern using MadVR and VMR9 (A=0.75).

VMR9 (below):



MadVR (below):



These scaled down images clearly do not show things clearly!! (The smearing of the circles is particularly lost in the downscaling and some extra artifacts are added to both images). Here are the full bitmaps. You really need to look at those before commenting!

Some may feel the VMR9 version is slightly over-sharp. In fact you may be horrified to find I use an Edge Enhancement setting of "1". Personally a prefer the slight tightening the EE algorithm gives on its absolute minimum setting. However, this could be turned off. More significant IMO though is the real mess MadVR (default settings) makes of several areas such as the smearing on various parts of the two black circles and the variation in thickness and grey scale level of many of the grill patterns. Also the thickening of the text "720" inside the outer circle. And lastly there are some horizontal lines running across the diagonal grills on the right hand side that are quite nasty!

I will be very interested in your thoughts.

Edit: I have added a screenshot of VMR9 without EE to the zip file for completeness.

Last edited by Jong; 18th May 2009 at 14:40. Reason: more things to look for on the screenshots
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Old 18th May 2009, 14:48   #1109  |  Link
Mark_A_W
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What settings did you use Jong?

And the input res to MadVR is 720x576? No ffdshow scaling first?

What is your output resolution? And what MadVR settings do you use.

I see no such issues, but I don't scale Luma.
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Old 18th May 2009, 14:52   #1110  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jong View Post
I will be very interested in your thoughts.
Did you read the whole thread? Of course madVR's standard SoftCubic produces soft images. Switch to Lanczos and the result turns around.

Last edited by FoLLgoTT; 18th May 2009 at 14:55.
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Old 18th May 2009, 14:54   #1111  |  Link
Jong
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Default settings for MadVR except 3Dlut ticked.

- PC levels
- Luma upscaling softcubic 50
- chroma resampling softcubic 100

No "trade offs"!

No ffdshow, no other scaling, MadVR gets 720x576.

As you can see from the full size bitmaps my screen res is 1920x1080.

Yes, I think this is an effect of scaling, but a major handicap for DVD.
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Old 18th May 2009, 14:57   #1112  |  Link
Jong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoLLgoTT View Post
Did you read the whole thread? Of course madVRs standard SoftCubic produces soft images. Switch to Lanczos and the result turns around.
Less of attitude please! It is not the softness I am commenting on. Read again.

Anyway I considered Madshi's default and therefore presumably recommended settings were the best place to start, regardless of other thread "comments"!

None the less, I will take a look at your suggestion and we will see.
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Old 18th May 2009, 15:04   #1113  |  Link
FoLLgoTT
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Less of attitude please! It is not the softness I am commenting on. Read again.
Sorry, I didn't want to be rude.

Ok, the artifacts look like half vertical resolution. Did you checked the deinterlacing settings of the decoder? The picture looks like BOB and not WEAVE.
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Old 18th May 2009, 15:12   #1114  |  Link
Jong
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No, its not half resolution. Same decoder used in both screenshots and anyway look at the finest one pixel wide grills. They are stil there.

Just checked using Lanzos4 resize and all the main problems I mention are still there. I've added a Lanczos screencap to the zip file.
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Old 18th May 2009, 15:18   #1115  |  Link
Jong
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@Madshi,

Could MadVR have a problem with 720x576? I notice the OSD says 720x480!
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Old 18th May 2009, 15:19   #1116  |  Link
tetsuo55
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did a lot more testing.

Terrible results with DVD's

Every DVD gives this error:


Some still work though, all DVD's play audio, right click navigation works, but i get a black screen for many of my DVD's
Here is a sample:http://sharebee.com/b988c279
(You have to rightclick, go to navigate, then click on title menu)
PS i am using FFdshow


Finally the filter refresh rate is wrong when playing DVD's as shown in this screenshot:



On top of all that i have an MKV that works fine with all other renderers but crashes MPC-HC completely when using MadVR
EDIT: Sample here http://sharebee.com/4351620b (due to ugly cutting the image stutters on all renderers in this sample)

Last edited by tetsuo55; 18th May 2009 at 16:30. Reason: added MKV sample
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Old 18th May 2009, 15:21   #1117  |  Link
FoLLgoTT
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Originally Posted by Jong View Post
No, its not half resolution. Same decoder used in both screenshots and anyway look at the finest one pixel wide grills. They are stil there.
The problem is only vertical. If you look at the bursts in the left half of the picture you can see that the horizontal bursts are intact while the vertical bursts are of much lower resolution. Exactly this happens when BOB is selected.

Which decoder and player are you using?
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Old 18th May 2009, 15:23   #1118  |  Link
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Whoops one more interesting problem.

I can watch 720p with any settings easily. However, I discovered I cannot watch now 1080p downscaled to 720p with Lanc8. All other methods work fine. Even spline64 works. But when I switch to lanc8 I observe massive frame drops (and still low CPU, so it seems GPU is overloaded). Render queue is 7 or 8 / 8 with any resampler.
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Old 18th May 2009, 15:37   #1119  |  Link
Jong
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Originally Posted by FoLLgoTT View Post
The problem is only vertical. If you look at the bursts in the left half of the picture you can see that the horizontal bursts are intact while the vertical bursts are of much lower resolution. Exactly this happens when BOB is selected.

Which decoder and player are you using?
Have you looked at the full bitmaps and read the full list of problems I have mentioned. Sorry, honestly, thanks for helping to diagnose, but this is not bobbing. If it were, apart from all the problems that are nothing to do with bobbing, the finest grill pattern would disappear.

I am using Cyberlink SD decoder (PDVD7) with MPC-HC and (just to be sure!) I forced weave. With Bob, as I mention, the finest grill disappears. Actually it goes grey, rather than black or white (disapears against the background), which is surprising and may be another problem.
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Old 18th May 2009, 15:42   #1120  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post
There were two or three very obvious big glitches, but it was otherwise smooth.
This is similar to Beliyaal's MPC EVR custom actually (not in exclusive fullscreen), but they were less drastic.
Not sure what you're saying: Were the glitches less drastic with madVR compared to EVR-CP, or the other way round?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post
And I have seen a few stutters which didn't cause the dropped frames or delayed frames numbers to change - while playing around just now.
Hmmmmm... Sometimes madVR is in "buggy state" after pausing or seeking and then stutters like crazy. Just re-seeking fixes that for me. Maybe this is what you noticed? Or was it only a slight sutter now and then? In that case it might be a bug in madVR somewhere. If so, it would be great if you could find a way for me to reproduce the problem somehow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by noee View Post
Just a couple of issues so far:

- Changing monitor rez during playback no longer handled gracefully (black screen, but playback continues, MPC becomes non-responsive)
- Playback of 1080/30P (1:1) with many dropped/delayed frames. Counters increment as playback continues

720 24/30P are stable, good numbers, very smooth.
How about 1080p24?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydc View Post
1. Could you include a brightness or gamma slider on the settings screen? Some movies are too dark, so I want to change the brightness while watching the movie. Yes, most decoders have this, but it would be great if we could adjust it for all the formats in the same place, which is the renderer.
madVR already includes the math operations to do brightness, contrast and saturation modifications, I've not had the time to implement controls for that. It's not only more comfortable to have these controls in the renderer, it's also better for quality, btw. If you let the decoder e.g. brightness modifications, that will negatively affect image quality, cause the decoder still outputs only 8bit in the end. Doing it in madVR means that it's done in 16bit with no loss in image quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinTime View Post
I'm afraid version 0.10 now gives me permanent tearing with 24fps material at a reported refresh rate of 24.001Hz, with or without ReClock. The vsync interval is 41.66ms, the movie frame interval is 40.67ms. This is with both SD and HD video on a 1080p screen using an 8600GT. Previous versions of madVR were fine.
That's weird!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Was something changed with downscaling in 0.10 which could be causing the render queue to not keep up with the video. In earlier versions of madVR, downscaling seemed less intensive then upscaling since a smaller image had to be rendered. In any case, I'm suspecting this is a bug in 0.10.
I don't think this is a bug. Downscaling is actually more calculation intensive than upscaling, if source and target resolutions are near. Generally, the higher the source resolution, the more power is needed. And the higher the output resolution, the more power is needed. And downscaling eats more performance than upscaling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peekstra View Post
Did anyone get Zoomplayer 6.0 to work without any Macrovision failure when trying to play a DVD and using Madvr 0.10?
Yes, I did. For me DVD playback works. But I'll retry with my new HTPC later. Hopefully I'll then be able to reproduce the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jong View Post
Madshi, in fullscreen exclusive mode you can do your own OSD right? At least equivalent to the MPC one and hopefully a lot less gross!?
I can do my own OSD for things private to madVR. I can not overwrite the MPC HC OSD, though, for seeking bar etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoD View Post
when I try opening a file in ZoomPlayer, I have to wait about 10 seconds till playback starts.
Hmmmm... madVR 0.10 delays playback until it knows the display's refresh rate. That usually takes exactly 1 second. Maybe fetching the display refresh rate takes much longer on your PC for whatever reason? Not sure...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grmpf View Post
Maybe Microsoft is counting front porch, back porch and sync width lines too ?
Have a look at the official MS documentation yourself:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...96(VS.85).aspx

It's 100% clear that porches are not supposed to be reported.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pie1394 View Post
The only exception is 1024x576p60 video -> 1920x1080p60 output. Continuously tearing and dropped frames pop up about every 2 ~ 3 seconds. It is a progressive MPEG2 video content with 16.67 ms frame duration, which is the same with V-sync refresh rate in my system. The decoder queue shows "1/16". Isn't the a/v sync mechanism flexible enough for such 1:1 renderering mode?
The a/v sync mechanism should be flexible enough. But maybe your hardware is not fast enough? 60p content is 2.5x as much taxing on the hardware compared to 24p when using madVR.

Does the problem only occur with that one specific movie? Have you tried different movies with similar codec and framerate? Also trying different decoders might (or not) be interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pie1394 View Post
How do you apply the change of output window dimension? I am curious how it produces these new issues with the version 0.10's implemention.
"Change of output window dimension"? Not sure what you mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
just encountered a problem, I get constantly dropped & delayed frames and a massive stuttering picture during playback with 720p 60i mpeg2 files (no matter if .ts or remuxed to .mkv), maybe because in this case vcsync invertall is 16.66ms while movie intervall is 16.68ms (upload queue 5-7/8 (but once for example also dropped to 3/8 shortly), render queue 5-8/8)
Does your decoder output 60i as 30p or as 60p? Or is there any other filter which might deinterlace the source to 60p?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepBeepMeep View Post
With 0.10 I have big performances issues with my 8600 GTS. I need now to disable 3Dlut and turn on at least one performance option if I don't want have a horrible stutter with tons of dropped and delayed frames. I could use the top quality settings with earlier versions.

I wonder if this has to do with the fact I play move a 23.976fps movie on a 72Hz screen, maybe It will better on a 24Hz screen.
Anyone else with a 8600 having similar problems?

24p content on a 72Hz screen should be no problem.
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