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20th March 2013, 11:15 | #18061 | Link | ||||
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If your display doesn't have a levels option, it may support displaying 0-255 if you adjust brightness and contrast. Many displays simply clip outside the 16-235 range and won't show anything though. If it will display 0-255 when you adjust the brightness & contrast controls, then you can usually treat it as a display that supports 0-255. Quote:
If your display does not support 0-255, you probably should not output 0-255 from the video card (using madNvLevelsTweaker.exe) and will have to compromise. The first option is to have everything set to 0-255, except for the video card output, so that on the output stage it is being converted to 16-235. This means that all content is kept at the same levels (desktop & video) but the conversion to 16-235 on output may introduce banding. If you are using your PC for more than just video playback, this is the setup you have to use. However, if you are going to be using the computer exclusively for watching videos through madVR, you have a second option. What you can do is set the video card output to 0-255, and set madVR to 16-235. This will avoid the potential banding from having the video card compress the output levels to 16-235. But it will make anything that is not video look terrible, as anything on the desktop will still be outputting 0-255, and all values above 235 and below 16 will be clipped. (very high contrast image with no shadow/highlight detail) I would only suggest doing this if your are only using the PC for video playback, and are seeing banding from the video card outputting 16-235. |
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20th March 2013, 18:47 | #18063 | Link |
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hi guys, so there are many different opinions on the color range issue but what about a AVR that is connected between the HTPC and HDTV? my TV cannot handle 0-255 via HDMI and I only have one option for output of my AVR no matter if it is my HTPC, Wii-U, Xbox360 or PS3 which I pass through to my TV...
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20th March 2013, 22:03 | #18064 | Link | |
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My TV supports xvYCC (YCbCr444), should I use it or use RGB instead not having into account poor conversion (I use my TV for video only, not games, etc.)? Thanks
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21st March 2013, 02:27 | #18065 | Link |
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I use Windows Media Centre (WMC) to watch TV & call Media Player via MyMovies to watch movies.
The WMC render used a render that has no ability to see Black level to 0 and White level 255 unless you really mess with the video driver levels and that's "bad". So if you use WMC at all, you need to keep Black levels at 16 and White levels at 235, but display the full range 0-255.
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21st March 2013, 03:34 | #18066 | Link |
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I don't get what the big problem is here. Those of you asking what to use just need to use a test pattern yourself. Set all to 0-255 and then see if you get clipping on the pattern. If all is good you'll only see limited range because it's correctly being dealt with by MadVR.
The only time to set limited is if the test pattern is showing incorrectly because video is being expanded to full range and then clipped by your display or avr. (E.g. your avr or display don't pass the full range. In short, just use a pattern to work it out yourself. Sent from my Blade S using Tapatalk 2 |
21st March 2013, 18:14 | #18067 | Link |
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I have this quick question that came to mind not long ago. If I had a 120hz screen which is compatible with 24 and 30fps, would I still need smooth motion to remove the judder? I've noticed that even when I watch 30fps in 60hz smooth motion is still enabled, so I'm not sure how it works.
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21st March 2013, 20:34 | #18068 | Link | |
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21st March 2013, 21:05 | #18069 | Link |
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I am not sure what you mean by "is just encoded RGB". YCbCr is a different color space than RGB, they cannot be mapped into each other 1:1, sometimes two RGB values will map to the same YCbCr values and vice versa. xvYCC allows colors outside the normal RGB space but this doesn't help unless you have content that includes those colors. However, from my limited understanding, there isn't a downside to converting to xvYCC.
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21st March 2013, 21:16 | #18070 | Link | |||
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Last edited by rahzel; 21st March 2013 at 21:23. |
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21st March 2013, 21:54 | #18072 | Link |
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If you're outputting 120Hz refresh rate, yes. But AFAIK, most (if not all) 120Hz/240Hz HDTVs can't actually accept a 120Hz signal, only 120Hz computer monitors. If you have a 120Hz HDTV you'll probably need to output 23Hz to properly handle 24p and to avoid judder. Outputting 59/60Hz to a 120Hz display will still have judder because 59/60 is not a multiple of 24. It will convert 24 -> 60, then it will display each frame twice. Outputting 23Hz (actually ~23.976) it will display each frame 5x.
Last edited by rahzel; 21st March 2013 at 22:18. |
21st March 2013, 22:11 | #18074 | Link |
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Ask Microsoft (or perhaps the GPU makers).
Selecting 23Hz in the desktop will actually output ~23.976Hz (more or less, depending on your GPU maker). 24Hz will actually output ~24Hz. Your actual display refresh rate can be checked in madVR's OSD (ctrl + J during playback). I believe you can add refresh rates to madVR to automatically switch when the frame rate matches. Last edited by rahzel; 21st March 2013 at 22:23. |
21st March 2013, 22:59 | #18075 | Link |
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Ah very true, but if it isn't accepting a 120Hz signal I don't consider it a 120Hz display. I don't care what they write on the box, they seem to write anything they feel like on the box with no consistant meaning to any of it.
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21st March 2013, 23:17 | #18076 | Link |
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HDTVs do internal 120Hz processing. They may not be true 120Hz displays in the sense that they will not accept 120Hz signals, but they do handle 24p content properly... something that normal 60Hz HDTVs do not. I bought a Panasonic 60ST50 plasma (60Hz) to replace my LG 55LH90 LCD/LED (240Hz) as my main theater display and I do slightly miss the ability to properly handle 24p content. FRC plays film at 60Hz better than my ST50 converts 24p -> 60Hz so it's not so bad now.
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22nd March 2013, 01:15 | #18077 | Link |
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My LG PK750 plasma accepts 24 or 60 Hz and it is a 60Hz display, you don't need 120 Hz anything to support 24 Hz. I don't understand the point of 120 Hz displays that only accept 60Hz input but I only plug PCs into all my displays so I am probably not the normal user.
How do they support 24p in a 60Hz signal properly? Automatic detection of the 3:2 pattern and display each of the frames that had been duplicated 3 times for two internal refreshes and the frames that had been duplicated 2 times for three internal refreshes? It seems like this would start having issues with anime or other sources that have their own odd pattern of duplicates. I don't have a fake 120+ Hz display to test with but I hear they have gotten pretty good at this but I still don't like calling them 120Hz displays. What do you call a real 120Hz display then? Adding back light strobing and calling that double refresh rate is insulting, even if back light strobing looks good it isn't equivalent to 2x the refresh rate. Sorry for the rant. Good thing MadVR's automatic refresh rate changer works so well. |
22nd March 2013, 01:26 | #18078 | Link |
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I think the point is that the displays do refresh at 120Hz, it's just they don't accept a 120Hz signal.
It's easier to turn 24 into 120 than 60, which is the reason for these displays. Sent from my Blade S using Tapatalk 2 |
22nd March 2013, 01:41 | #18079 | Link |
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I thought most TVs showed 24p material at 72 or 96 Hz but it could just as easily be 120 Hz on some sets. Any integer multiple at 72 Hz or higher would be fine. Also note that any TV advertised as "120 Hz" would be using 100 Hz for 25p/25i/50p input signals.
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22nd March 2013, 01:51 | #18080 | Link | |
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60Hz displays may support 24p, but they don't do it the same way 120Hz displays do. They must convert the framerate to play properly at 60Hz... this isn't the proper way of handling 24p as it will introduce judder unless they have some sort of internal processing that removes the judder. 120Hz HDTVs display the 24 frames 5x per second without conversion so there shouldn't be any judder. My ST50 also accepts 24Hz input, but doing so shows noticeable artifacts, which is why I use FRC and just output 60Hz from my HTPC instead. Last edited by rahzel; 22nd March 2013 at 01:54. |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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