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Old 29th October 2012, 23:32   #15141  |  Link
TheLion
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I've checked all options in Catalyst Control Center but all settings are the same as they were before.
Maybe the drivers are just broken.
Try 12.11 beta drivers.
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Old 30th October 2012, 00:59   #15142  |  Link
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I just move to madvr and HD content are beautiful. I still havr some dvd and it looks like madvr is not able to render. I have a macrovision error. I foind some fix on the net by replacing a dll, but it is not sure it is still working.

Any chance to have a fix. For the time being, i use evr for dvd.
dslibdvdnav should fix this if you are using Windows 7.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a working "hack" for Windows 8 yet (the tool provided just changes a few registry keys to point to dslibdvdnav) and I have been unable to play DVDs on it since upgrading.

It would be nice if Madshi were able to find the source of the Macrovision errors, especially now that LAV Filters supports DVD decoding, but it seems to be a low priority for him, as he doesn't watch DVD.

For me, DVD is probably 50% of what I watch now, after being Blu-ray exclusive for a number of years. (the rest is probably 25% web, and 25% Blu-ray content) There are a number of titles I own which are probably never going to see a Blu-ray release, or are very low priority for it. These days, there seem to be few archive releases of interest to me on Blu-ray, and the majority of new releases are definitely of no interest to me.
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Old 30th October 2012, 02:13   #15143  |  Link
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Replacing the qdvd.dll still works to enable DVD playback on Windows 8 ..... at least on the consumer preview.
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Old 30th October 2012, 02:41   #15144  |  Link
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Replacing the qdvd.dll still works to enable DVD playback on Windows 8 ..... at least on the consumer preview.
In Windows 7 you did not have to replace system files to get that working though, you could just use the "Path Hack" tool provided with dslibdvdnav and point it to the XP qdvd.dll

This no longer works on Windows 8. Update: figured out a way to get that working now

Neither dslibdvdnav.ax or the XP qdvd.dll are good solutions though. They don't work with all of my discs, and qdvd.dll has a tendency to crash the player when seeking. (video plays but the player becomes unresponsive)


There was a brief period where ffdshow Video Decoder, LAV Audio + madVR did work with the Windows 7 DVD Navigator, and that worked flawlessly with all the discs that I tried.

Last edited by 6233638; 30th October 2012 at 05:00.
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Old 30th October 2012, 04:46   #15145  |  Link
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Perhaps you could fire through some old versions of MadVR and see if you can find the latest one that works in that manner, perhaps Madshi could get that working again in a new build.
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Old 30th October 2012, 05:03   #15146  |  Link
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Perhaps you could fire through some old versions of MadVR and see if you can find the latest one that works in that manner, perhaps Madshi could get that working again in a new build.
It was actually an older version of LAV Audio that seemed to get it working, and I need the downmixing/better format support that newer versions have.

DVDs work fine with renderers other than madVR, so I don't know that the problem lies with LAV, however. (ffdshow audio decoder doesn't work either)

Neither Madshi, nor Nevcariel seem to have any interest in this problem though. (and Nevcariel says that DVDs work on his system)

I did at least figure out how to get the old hacks working on Windows 8, though they don't work nearly as well as the Windows 7 (and presumably 8) DVD Navigator does.

Last edited by 6233638; 30th October 2012 at 05:06.
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Old 30th October 2012, 05:10   #15147  |  Link
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Hi, I found that by enabling windowed overlay I can get glitch free playback on my secondary monitor (my TV) without having to use D3D full screen exclusive. I dislike FSE due to various drawbacks.

What are disadvantages to using windowed overlay?

Also, when I try to get image capture, MPC still says it's not supported with madVR.

thanks
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Old 30th October 2012, 05:31   #15148  |  Link
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Nevermind for now.

Last edited by ryrynz; 30th October 2012 at 05:36.
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Old 30th October 2012, 05:57   #15149  |  Link
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What are disadvantages to using windowed overlay?
There is a very small performance hit and it bypasses Windows 7's color management.
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Old 30th October 2012, 09:27   #15150  |  Link
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The human eye has a limited range of contrast it can see simultaneously - about 100:1, but that shifts up and down in brightness constantly over a dynamic range of about 1,000,000:1. (similar to how exposure works on a camera if you are familiar with that)

So if you are showing a bright image on a display, black level almost doesn't matter, because it is below the threshold of what your eye can see simultaneously. (your eye tends to "expose" based on the brightest object)

If you are watching a dark film in a dark room, then a display with 10,000:1 contrast (5,000:1 once calibrated) is nowhere near enough to put black level below the threshold of what your eye can detect.

You need in excess of 100,000:1 contrast at calibrated levels (100cd/m² white) before the screen stops "glowing" when displaying black. The eye is very good at detecting the contrast between a dark screen, and the total darkness of the room.
I'm sure that's not right. 1000000:1 is only with calculating in rods which takes around a half hour to adapt. I've seen multiple references to 10000:1 though. And now that you mention it's probably not enough with the extremes of environmental light. But I don't think one should expect the screen to be fair well in full daylight and complete darkness. By the way I'm quite fine to use the same settings in darkness as the ones I use in light. With movies anyway, computer desktop not so much.
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Old 30th October 2012, 16:56   #15151  |  Link
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It was actually an older version of LAV Audio that seemed to get it working, and I need the downmixing/better format support that newer versions have.

DVDs work fine with renderers other than madVR, so I don't know that the problem lies with LAV, however. (ffdshow audio decoder doesn't work either)

Neither Madshi, nor Nevcariel seem to have any interest in this problem though. (and Nevcariel says that DVDs work on his system)

I did at least figure out how to get the old hacks working on Windows 8, though they don't work nearly as well as the Windows 7 (and presumably 8) DVD Navigator does.
It is not a bug in madVR/LAV/ffdshow. If it ever worked, it was by pure luck and coincidence. The developers show no interest because so far nobody has been able to come up with a solution that they and others can reproduce consistently. They simply can't fix it with the current knowledge about this problem. If you are sure it works with certain old versions of LAV Audio, then you should narrow down the range of versions/revisions and share that info here so others can test it as well. Then maybe the devs can acquire some info that actually points them towards a solution.
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Old 31st October 2012, 00:05   #15152  |  Link
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Yes you can ignore it.
Thank you very much.
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Old 31st October 2012, 01:30   #15153  |  Link
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It is not a bug in madVR/LAV/ffdshow. If it ever worked, it was by pure luck and coincidence. The developers show no interest because so far nobody has been able to come up with a solution that they and others can reproduce consistently. They simply can't fix it with the current knowledge about this problem. If you are sure it works with certain old versions of LAV Audio, then you should narrow down the range of versions/revisions and share that info here so others can test it as well. Then maybe the devs can acquire some info that actually points them towards a solution.
If it's not a bug, why do DVDs work fine in other video renderers like EVR?

Back when it was last working, I did bring it up with madshi/nevcariel. 0.50.1 was the last version of LAV Filters where DVD playback would work. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...77#post1572877

Unfortunately I didn't include my madVR/MPC-HC version numbers in that post, and can't seem to get DVD playback working again even with 0.50.1, but I'm on Windows 8 now, which probably changes things. Nevcariel said that he basically hadn't changed anything relating to LAV Audio in 0.50.2, but something must have changed that stopped it from working.
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Old 31st October 2012, 02:22   #15154  |  Link
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The same problems exists with Haali's video renderer. Guess what madVR and Haali have in common. They are both not renderers from Microsoft! Nobody here knows what exactly triggers the Macrovision failure. We can only assume the DVD navigator filter checks which video renderer is used, and probably also the audio renderer. Unknown renderer -> failure.

The LAV audio decoder does not behave any differently whether EVR or madVR is used. Unless you can specify what it does wrong, there is no bug.
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Old 31st October 2012, 05:37   #15155  |  Link
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The same problems exists with Haali's video renderer. Guess what madVR and Haali have in common. They are both not renderers from Microsoft! Nobody here knows what exactly triggers the Macrovision failure. We can only assume the DVD navigator filter checks which video renderer is used, and probably also the audio renderer. Unknown renderer -> failure.

The LAV audio decoder does not behave any differently whether EVR or madVR is used. Unless you can specify what it does wrong, there is no bug.
Just did a fresh install of Windows 7 and it still works perfectly with the standard DVD Navigator with an older build of LAV Audio and using ffdshow to handle downmixing/video decoding. (rather than LAV, as the features weren't implemented)

Anything beyond LAV Audio 0.50.1 breaks DVD playback and I get Macrovision errors again.

0.50.1 is missing a lot of features that I currently use though.
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Old 31st October 2012, 06:18   #15156  |  Link
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And it still works perfectly with the latest version of everything for me. I developed LAVs DVD functionality without having to hack anything, and i regularly tested on madVR as well.
Like i said before, there weren't any changes that would influence this in the version directly after 0.50.1, its more random then anything. It was pure coincedence that it somehow worked on that version, why - noone knows.
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Old 31st October 2012, 06:46   #15157  |  Link
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And it still works perfectly with the latest version of everything for me. I developed LAVs DVD functionality without having to hack anything, and i regularly tested on madVR as well.
Like i said before, there weren't any changes that would influence this in the version directly after 0.50.1, its more random then anything. It was pure coincedence that it somehow worked on that version, why - noone knows.
And this is the most frustrating part.

That was a completely clean install of Windows 7 SP1 with nothing installed but the system drivers and the list above. (it was specifically to try that again)

And for what it's worth, the drivers were the latest Intel INF, MEI, RST & Ethernet, Nvidia Graphics & Audio, Marvell SATA.

Anything beyond 0.50.1 doesn't work with DVDs in either of my physical drives, or loading an image via Virtual Clone Drive, and having AnyDVD installed/running or not doesn't make a difference. I've even tried it on other machines.


The only thing I can think of is that you're using some sort of drive emulation software that bypasses the Macrovision protection. (AnyDVD should remove it, but doesn't seem to make a difference)

Do you have any plans on upgrading to Windows 8?
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Old 31st October 2012, 07:45   #15158  |  Link
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Do you have any plans on upgrading to Windows 8?
I installed it on my Ultrabook for testing, not sure when/if i'll upgrade my Development PC.
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Old 31st October 2012, 10:42   #15159  |  Link
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Yes: EWA QuadraticJinc is my ImageMagick "high quality low ringing" (what I call "natural") linear scheme. (Although I must say that sigmoidization is quite good at suppressing ringing with sRGB images. I'm not including this nonlinear trick in this ranking.)
EWA LanczosSharp (without AR, which is a nonlinear tool, and which has no equivalent in ImageMagick) is great for downsampling and upsampling (so is EWA QuadraticJinc), but it creates too much halo for me to call it "natural looking".
That is: In a sense, EWA QuadraticJinc is my AR-like method without an AR-like limiter.
Ah, makes sense now. So I guess I should really add Jinc AR downsampling to madVR, as the (probably) ultimate solution. But it'll take some time because I'm working on some non-resampling related stuff at the moment.

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madshi, I've reuploaded a sample here: http://www.mediafire.com/?f8s0cfd641l59sy as per your request.
Thanks, that's a quite interesting sample. It seems to have a rather random cadence of alternating 3 and 2 fields per frame. Here's an extract from the madVR debug log:

"3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:3:2:3:3:2:3:3:3"

Try to find an exact pattern in that...

It seems to play without any artifacts, though?

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Oh ok, thank you for the explanation. Maybe you could nag the user with a pop-up message box and tell him to define what his display is because that wasn't clear to me at all.
I thought since the days of win95 we all learned that "?" devices in a device manager need to be taken care of?

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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Well, a persistent problem with AR is the 720x576 AVI 25fps PAL files for instance.....I used to have a rule in ffdshow forcing 4:3 but now I'm out of luck. Maybe something like [AR=xx] for instance, et voilą ))

You could accept any AR and simply round up 1.33 to 4:3 and 1.78 to 16/9? That would save my day actually

Well, any movie that has ".PAL." in its filename will require EBU primaries anyway and same goes for ".HDTV." that will require REC.709 gamut+primaries.

You could go with [matrix=601] and [matrix=709]?

And for the gamuts, same story: [primaries=xx], accepting the SMPTE-C / EBU / REC.709 keywords?

And while we're at it, levels conversions would be extremely convenient too! Something like [source-levels=xx] accepting the two "PC" and "TV" keywords?

And the icing on the cake would be custom levels, as we all have files with funky levels(eg. went through several sloppy conversions for instance), so it'd be too awesome to be able to make a 40-200 to 0-255 conversion for instance! Something like [source-levels=xx-xx]...this would allow us to ditch ffdshow for good, and once the file is properly tagged no need to input them manually ever again...OMG, that would be too good
I'll think about it.

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Originally Posted by mzso View Post
If I understand correctly there is no "image scaling" when I play 1920*1080 content on my 1920*1200 monitor in fullscreen mode.
Then why do I get dropped frames when I change to Jinc 3, from Lancos 8 (bot with AR)?
I don't touch anything else.
What does the madVR OSD say about movie resolution and target rectangle? Have you changed Lanczos to Jinc in the "image upscaling", "image downscaling" or "chroma upscaling" section, when doing this test?

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If I correctly understand now, disabling the GPU ramps is mainly for the purposes of disabling the application of the ICC profile and letting madVR perform the color correction via yCMS and 3DLUTs? Thanks.
Yes.

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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
I rechecked yesterday by creating a funky graphic card's CLUT in RivaTuner and the "disable GPU ramps" doesn't reset the graphic card's CLUT, it really only does what it says...
Have you tested in windowed or fullscreen exclusive mode? It seems that currently the option only shows effect in fullscreen exclusive mode, although madVR tells DirectShow to disable the gamma ramps also in windowed mode.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi8765 View Post
The guide I used is here (Image-intensive! and long!): http://wp.me/PrgSo-b1
Can anybody clear this up for me?
WHy does the guide make no sense? madVR doesn't support DXVA2 decoding yet. But LAV can do "DXVA2 copy-back", which works with any video renderer, including madVR. The guide offers you to either use software decoding or DXVA2 copy-back, from what I can see, and both should work just fine with madVR. The guide also mentions that DXVA2 copy-back works better for NVidia than it does for AMD, which is true.

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Originally Posted by starla View Post
Actually Reclock is able to keep the pitch at correct level.
Ok, but these pitch-preserving algorithm usually cost audio quality. It's better to use a non-pitch-preserving algorithm. Of course you should then try to get the refresh rate as accurate as possible, so pitch doesn't change noticeably.

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Originally Posted by Toku View Post
I noticed that in newer versions of MPC-HC, the seek bar has little black bars which show where each chapter begins/ends. Having these in the seek bar is really useful when playing a video with multiple sections (Advert breaks/Opening/Ending etc) Do you think you could add a feature like this into the Seekbar for Fullscreen exclusive mode?
Already been requested before. I might do that, but not too soon.

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Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
- NVIDIA graphics card with latest driver and I use the HDMI output of my card.
Make sure you use the "madNvLevelsTweaker.exe" tool to force your GPU to output untouched PC levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
- Media Player Classic with madVR as output renderer with output setting PC Levels (0-255).
That's ok, but then you have to use the "Enhanced (0-255)" setting in your projector. Alternatively you could set both madVR and your projector to 16-235. Should make no difference to video playback. Settings both to 0-255 might make more sense because that would also make games and the Windows desktop have correct black and white levels.

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Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
- using LAV video decoder with all the 'Output Formats' checked and 'RGB Output Levels' set to 'Untouched (as input)'.

- I m also using ffdshow Raw Video Decoder: Raw Video to 'All Supported' and in the Output settings only checked the box 'YV12'.
LAV ok. Can't say anything about ffdshow raw. Depends on how you're using it. Avoid it if you don't need it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
- Color Profile
Don't know. Check reviews of your projector to see which of those profiles is nearest to BT.709.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vlatko27 View Post
Most movies play perfectly fine, however some files require me to change the colorspace to 0-255(even though my TV doesn't support it) in madVR, otherwise the picture is too bright, washed out...
Please check the detected input levels (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+I). With those problematic files, does madVR detect the input levels as TV or PC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vlatko27 View Post
Here's a clip of one of those video files. I'm just curious as to why this happens with some files.
I see nothing wrong or weird about that sample. I wonder why you get too bright picture with some video files, only. That doesn't make much sense, unless some of those are detected as having PC levels input by madVR. I'm wondering if maybe your colors are always too bright and you just don't notice it with some videos.

Did you use the "madNvLevelsTweaker.exe"? If not, try that to force your GPU to output untouched PC levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
I don't see anything wrong with sample you provided. Maybe if you stop using shitty guides, things will improve. Especially this recommendation looks pretty scary to me.
What's so bad about that guide? On a quick check it looks ok to me. But I didn't really look in detail. That scary part you mentioned actually makes sense, if you happen to prefer the Haali Splitter. AFAIK, LAV Splitter doesn't support all MKV features yet, so prefering the Haali Splitter might still make sense, if you play a lot of files which use those special MKV features. That said, the LAV Splitter is clearly better at a lot of things compared to Haali, so it might be a better idea to prefer the LAV Splitter and just disable MKV support in it, so that the Haali Splitter is used only for MKV playback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kopija View Post
Are the problematic files in SD resolution by any chance?
If so, try going into Nvidia control panel and change the colorspace there also.
See here for the whole story, and chech out the black level test patterns and try them out.
That link is relatively old and applies mostly to VMR and EVR. madVR has less problems with funny levels behaviour than VMR and EVR have. Whether files are SD or HD in resolution shouldn't make any different to madVR.

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Originally Posted by MSL_DK View Post
I finally understood why so many do not recommend using htpc as a source to calibrate.
Yeah, it's complicated. I do plan to make it easier in the future, but there's only so much I can do every day...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSL_DK View Post
If I choose to use ycms, is it correct understood that ycms values ​​should be taken from an already calibrated monitor .. A monitor that is calibrated using a blu-ray player?
That depends. If you want to use that monitor with non-HTPC sources, too, then it absolutely makes sense to calibrate the monitor externally (e.g. by using the monitor's controls) first. However, if your HTPC is your only source then it's not as easy to decide. Many in-monitor calibration systems are terribly bad. So a lot also depends on your display.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vlatko27 View Post
In nVidia CP I set the colorspace to RGB Full 0-255 so the GPU doesn't do any conversions, but leaves that to madVR(which is something Mr. madshi has always insisted on).
There's no way in the NVidia CP to define the real output levels. The only switch you find there only affects video playback with EVR, VMR and Overlay and even then only works sometimes and not reliably in any way. The real output levels NVidia uses depend on which type of connector you're using (HDMI, DVI, VGA) and whether you're using a "HD" or "custom" output mode. Use the "madNvLevelsTweaker.exe" to make sure you *really* reliably get PC output levels all the time.

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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
FWIW, Kazuya made screenshots comparisons between Spline3 AR and Jinc3 AR on a 720p to 1080p conversion and the difference is invisible....so the bang/bucks ratio might be (quite/very/maybe not) low, when OTOH it looks killer fosho when going SD>1080p
Much depends on which kind of content you test with. Jinc mainly looks better if Lanczos ends up with aliasing artifacts. And Lanczos usually ends up with aliasing artifacts if the source is already extremely sharp and high-contrast. E.g. try scenes with very sharp subtitles and upscale them to 1080p. Jinc might make a difference there, removing the aliasing Lanczos might still show.

If you just pick a random scene out of a random movie then with a bit of "luck" you get such a blurry frame that even Bilinear might not look any worse than Jinc.

The same applies to chroma upsampling: With 98% of all movie scenes, there's probably no visible difference to any of the chroma upsampling algorithms. You gotta know which type of images/scenes to test with to make differences visible. The same applies to Lanczos/Jinc. Of course the higher the scaling factor, the more obvious the difference gets. So it's clear that 720p -> 1080p shows much less differences than 480p -> 1080p.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdboy View Post
Hi, I found that by enabling windowed overlay I can get glitch free playback on my secondary monitor (my TV) without having to use D3D full screen exclusive. I dislike FSE due to various drawbacks.

What are disadvantages to using windowed overlay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
There is a very small performance hit and it bypasses Windows 7's color management.
One more disadvantage is that there can only be one overlay window per monitor. So you can't playback two different videos at the same time on the same monitor. Not very important, I guess. Another disadvantage is that resizing the media player might look a bit more ugly using Overlay compared to simple windowed mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdboy View Post
Also, when I try to get image capture, MPC still says it's not supported with madVR.
Update to the latest MPC build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asubert View Post
I just move to madvr and HD content are beautiful. I still havr some dvd and it looks like madvr is not able to render. I have a macrovision error. I foind some fix on the net by replacing a dll, but it is not sure it is still working.

Any chance to have a fix. For the time being, i use evr for dvd.
If it were a simple bug I'd have fixed it ages ago. I just don't know how to fix it, unfortunately. I've already sunk many hours into this problem a while ago and didn't find a solution. I have on my to do list to give this another try, but it's not highest priority at the moment because I don't even know if I'll be able to make it work in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
It is not a bug in madVR/LAV/ffdshow. If it ever worked, it was by pure luck and coincidence. The developers show no interest because so far nobody has been able to come up with a solution that they and others can reproduce consistently. They simply can't fix it with the current knowledge about this problem. If you are sure it works with certain old versions of LAV Audio, then you should narrow down the range of versions/revisions and share that info here so others can test it as well. Then maybe the devs can acquire some info that actually points them towards a solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
The same problems exists with Haali's video renderer. Guess what madVR and Haali have in common. They are both not renderers from Microsoft!

Nobody here knows what exactly triggers the Macrovision failure.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
We can only assume the DVD navigator filter checks which video renderer is used, and probably also the audio renderer. Unknown renderer -> failure.
I'm not sure if that's true. I sure hope it's not. But I don't really know. FWIW, I've just sent an email to some Microsoft guys, asking for help. Maybe they can provide me with more information about this problem. But I'm not holding my breath...
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Old 31st October 2012, 11:28   #15160  |  Link
cyberbeing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Just did a fresh install of Windows 7 and it still works perfectly with the standard DVD Navigator with an older build of LAV Audio and using ffdshow to handle downmixing/video decoding. (rather than LAV, as the features weren't implemented)
LAV Audio 0.50.1 -> FFDShow RAW Audio -> Any Audio Render
+
"FFDShow Video" OR "Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder" OR MPC-HC MPEG2 Decoder -> MadVR
+
qdvd.dll (Win7)

I tried the above out of what you listed, and that does seem to bypass the Macrovision error on my fully-patched and hotfixed Win7 install as well. Update to LAV Audio 0.50.2+ and the error returns. Use LAV Audio 0.50.1 only without FFDShow RAW Audio and the error returns. Use "Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder" with or without FFDShow RAW Audio and the error returns. Use MPC-HC's internal audio decoders and the error returns. It's too bad it's not possible to mix and match LAV Filter Video and Audio components of different versions for testing.

Also of interest is that any combinations of filters seems to work with madVR if you manually build a graph with DVDNavigator in GraphEdit or GraphStudio. You can't use DVD menus within GraphEdit, but it does make me wonder if it's possible for madVR or MPC-HC to load a fixed dvd.grf (with open output pins for audio & video renderer connections) for DVD playback, and somehow get menus/navigation to work.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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