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Old 13th January 2007, 12:38   #701  |  Link
hajj_3
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calinb, please can you re-compile this to do the hashes, that would be amazing, the more automated this can become the better!
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Old 13th January 2007, 12:47   #702  |  Link
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Originally Posted by hajj_3 View Post
calinb, please can you re-compile this to do the hashes, that would be amazing, the more automated this can become the better!
It could be build into the Backup HD-DVD GUI that "Polly" is already working on: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...912#post929912
But it should still be put into the correct field in the KEYDB.cfg file toghter with the key, title, etc.
And since you need WinHex or similar to find the key, it's just as easy to use this tool to find the hash too.

Only recompiling the BackupHDDVD code to report the hash will not make the process any more automated than using WinHex to show the hash.

Last edited by He-Man; 13th January 2007 at 12:52.
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Old 13th January 2007, 12:51   #703  |  Link
calinb
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Originally Posted by Shinigami-Sama View Post
I was under the impression from the quick glance I had the chance to grab that the volume unique keys would work with any player
once we've gotten them we have them and no longer need the player Key
The opportunity to grab decrypted keys and the difficulty of doing so varies from player to player. Yes--once you've figured out how to exploit any given player and used it to calculate the volume unique key, you no longer need the player for any further decryption of that disc. You have BackupHDDVD for that!

But what about discs, new or old, for which you've not yet obtained a volume unique key in the clear (unencrypted)? You'll need the player again. If the player is listed in your drive memory (presumably flash memory) as revoked, the player will no longer work to generate volume unique keys or even play any HD-DVD discs--even if you reinstall a fresh copy of the software on your computer. This will require you to learn how to exploit another player, hack the drive, or hack the player.
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Old 13th January 2007, 12:58   #704  |  Link
zeroprobe
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Originally Posted by calinb View Post
The opportunity to grab decrypted keys and the difficulty of doing so varies from player to player. Yes--once you've figured out how to exploit any given player and used it to calculate the volume unique key, you no longer need the player for any further decryption of that disc. You have BackupHDDVD for that!

But what about discs, new or old, for which you've not yet obtained a volume unique key in the clear (unencrypted)? You'll need the player again. If the player is listed in your drive memory (presumably flash memory) as revoked, the player will no longer work to generate volume unique keys or even play any HD-DVD discs--even if you reinstall a fresh copy of the software on your computer. This will require you to learn how to exploit another player, hack the drive, or hack the player.
The new updated players have to playback old material though, thus having the same title keys????????? and as we already know them it will be easy to locate on the new software players.

Title keys will stay the same so will reveal where the location is on new software players. Am I right???

Last edited by zeroprobe; 13th January 2007 at 13:02.
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Old 13th January 2007, 13:00   #705  |  Link
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Originally Posted by He-Man View Post
It could be build into the Backup HD-DVD GUI that "Polly" is already working on: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...912#post929912
But it should still be put into the correct field in the KEYDB.cfg file toghter with the key, title, etc.
And since you need WinHex or similar to find the key, it's just as easy to use this tool to find the hash too.

Only recompiling the BackupHDDVD code to report the hash will not make the process any more automated than using WinHex to show the hash.
he may just be a 1hit poster, we need someone to release a gui version on here with sourcecode so that we can all improve it. pref a c++ version or something that dosent require java or .net to be installed.
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Old 13th January 2007, 13:09   #706  |  Link
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Originally Posted by He-Man View Post
<snip>
Only recompiling the BackupHDDVD code to report the hash will not make the process any more automated than using WinHex to show the hash.
I agree. We could discuss whether or not the hash check in Muslix64's code is a good usability feature. It appears the only reason it's there is to support multiple entries in the KEYDB.cfg file. (It identifies discs by matching the hash to the user's entry in KEYDB.cfg.) Given that a user generally decrypts an HD-DVD only once, it might make sense to remove this feature from the code and support only a single entry in KEYDB.cfg. Or even better, simply add a command line option to permit placing the volume unique key on the command line and completely ignore KEYDB.cfg. That way we could have both functionalities, as desired for the situation.

I've been looking for a reason to learn a "modern" programming language -- having been more of an assembly and C guy in the past. I'm sure others will whiz right past me in developing new tools and features but I could add this command line volume unique key option, if there's interest. (I feel like I should contribute something--damn day job had me shut down during most of this action!)

Last edited by calinb; 13th January 2007 at 13:35.
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Old 13th January 2007, 13:15   #707  |  Link
hajj_3
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yeah Calinb, create an updated version of this and release the sourcecode, even if it is commandline, someone can then create a gui version from it by knowing the sourcecode.
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Old 13th January 2007, 13:15   #708  |  Link
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Originally Posted by zeroprobe View Post
The new updated players have to playback old material though, thus having the same title keys????????? and as we already know them it will be easy to locate on the new software players.
The updated players will play old media but, if they go to the trouble to revoke a player, the new one will certainly be more resistant.
Quote:
Title keys will stay the same so will reveal where the location is on new software players. Am I right???
Hmm--that would help considerably. Are you gonna make me go read that spec again?

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Originally Posted by hajj_3 View Post
yeah Calinb, create an updated version of this and release the sourcecode, even if it is commandline, someone can then create a gui version from it by knowing the sourcecode.
Okay...but I gotta get some sleep first. There are so many excellent programmers around here and this thread is moving so fast, someone will have probably beaten me to it by the time I awaken.

Last edited by calinb; 13th January 2007 at 13:18. Reason: reply to hajj_3
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Old 13th January 2007, 13:26   #709  |  Link
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The updated players will play old media but, if they go to the trouble to revoke a player, the new one will certainly be more resistant.Hmm--that would help considerably. Are you gonna make me go read that spec again?

Okay...but I gotta get some sleep first. There are so many excellent programmers around here and this thread is moving so fast, someone will have probably beaten me to it by the time I awaken.
If decrypted title keys are the same on powerdvd and winddvd then it obviously has no effect what the players key is.

Last edited by zeroprobe; 13th January 2007 at 13:39.
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Old 13th January 2007, 13:33   #710  |  Link
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I agree. I only compiled Muslix64's code to report the hash because my hash calculator was having trouble. We could discuss whether or not the hash check in Muslix64's code is a good usability feature. It appears the only reason it's there is to support multiple entries in the KEYDB.cfg file. (It identifies discs by matching the hash to the user's entry in KEYDB.cfg.) Given that a user generally decrypts an HD-DVD only once, it might make sense to remove this feature from the code and support only a single entry in KEYDB.cfg. Or even better, simply add a command line option to permit placing the volume unique key on the command line and completely ignore KEYDB.cfg. That way we could have both functionalities, as desired for the situation.
I think most users wish to store all the extracted keys somewhere anyway. You might only need to extract once, but it would be nice to keep they keys so you can always extract again if your hard rive crashes or something. Or maybe you want to share the keys with a friend. Or using the already extracted keys as reference for hacking a new player if the old player gets revoked.
So if you are going to store keys for all the extracted files anyway, you might as well just store them all in the same KEYDB.cfg file along with the title name and hash.

I think a better solution would be to automate writing/updating to the KEYDB.cfg file by entering the movie title, + volume/title key value in the the a GUI for BackupHDDVD and then have it automatically calculating and writing the hash to the KEYDB.cfg along with it.

Last edited by He-Man; 13th January 2007 at 13:39.
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Old 13th January 2007, 13:38   #711  |  Link
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yeah, a .txt plaintext file of previously found keys would be good, like anydvd does.
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Old 13th January 2007, 13:44   #712  |  Link
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can anyone confirm the end result decrypted title keys are the same regardless of which player is used.

If so is that not game over as we know what to look for on any updated software player?
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Old 13th January 2007, 13:50   #713  |  Link
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If decrypted title keys are the same on powerdvd and winddvd then it obviously has no effect what the players key is.
If a player key gets revoked by new HD-DVD movies, so this player wont be allowed to play anymore HD-DVD's, then you need to install a new player version. This new player version might be better at hiding title and volume keys in memory. If you can't find these keys in memory anymore in a new version of the player, then you can't extract anymore movies because you can't find keys anymore, not in the old player version because it has been revoked so it's not allowed to play anymore HD-DVD's, nor in the new player version if you can't find the keys in memory anymore in this new version.

I don't know if anyone is able to extract title/volume keys using PowerDVD. Has anyone tried to search for the keys in memory using PowerDVD?
If WinDVD gets updated to be more secure it might not be possible to extract keys with this anymore either. And then it doesn't help to have the old player version still installed because it can be revoked from new movie titles without even being connected to the internet.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I understood the revocation process.

Last edited by He-Man; 13th January 2007 at 13:57.
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Old 13th January 2007, 13:55   #714  |  Link
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Originally Posted by zeroprobe View Post
can anyone confirm the end result decrypted title keys are the same regardless of which player is used.

If so is that not game over as we know what to look for on any updated software player?

yes, in the AACS spec. it's 100% true that every player including the software and hardware player will always decryt the title key table and then get the same result. But AACS can revoke these titles so that you won't be able to play these disks any more. But that will be a critical impact since there are already so many titles released in the filed.

For those people with both software players, could you give it a little trial to see whether we can find the keys in PowerDVD's memory or not?
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Old 13th January 2007, 14:00   #715  |  Link
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this thread has revealed the true crackers of this community
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Old 13th January 2007, 14:30   #716  |  Link
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"heise online" spoke with Cyberlink on the "CES Unveiled" event and reports that they deny any AACS-key-in-memory issue in PowerDVD.

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/83289 (german) and a badly translated version

Abstract: PowerDVD doesn't store the keys in memory, therefore they can't be found there. Since there's no loophole, nothing needs to be fixed. If there was one, they would have to report it to AACS LA, and new HD DVDs would contain a new keyset that would make them unplayable with the compromised PowerDVD version. Furthermore, all 18 months, there is a mandatory change of keys.

In theory, this is about collecting and archiving keys.

With this weakness, you could find out the keys from all HD-DVDs released within about 18 months.

Then you would have to find another weakness, because newer HD-DVDs wouldn't work with the old software player. (even if it wasn't compromised)
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Old 13th January 2007, 14:39   #717  |  Link
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someone already mentioned they found a title key in powerdvd. The only way they can have a good chance at stopping this is blacklisting every single hddvd released thus far.

As it stands even if they update the players, the title keys already out can be used to track down the new locations. When you know what to look for it would be easy. The only way they stop this is blacklisting the titles out now. Can you really see them doing this.
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Old 13th January 2007, 14:46   #718  |  Link
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Abstract: PowerDVD doesn't store the keys in memory, therefore they can't be found there. Since there's no loophole, nothing needs to be fixed. If there was one, they would have to report it to AACS LA, and new HD DVDs would contain a new keyset that would make them unplayable with the compromised PowerDVD version. Furthermore, all 18 months, there is a mandatory change of keys.
I believe that he was talking about the player key instead of the title key or the Volume unique key.
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Old 13th January 2007, 14:55   #719  |  Link
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I'm having trouble with WinDVD... I installed the HD version, it opens, but then sits there and does nothing if I select "HD DVD source" or hit Play. Any ideas?

EDIT: never mind, fixed it. Needed to roll back my ATI drivers to 6.7.

Last edited by Eeknay; 13th January 2007 at 15:50.
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Old 13th January 2007, 14:56   #720  |  Link
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someone already mentioned they found a title key in powerdvd.
Who mentioned this and where?
So far in this topic I have only read people mentioning finding keys in memory using WinDVD.
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