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Old 15th July 2010, 13:25   #3641  |  Link
leeperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Hearing the 0.001% NTSC slow-down .. i doubt it.
http://www.fact-index.com/p/ps/psychoacoustics.html
Quote:
changes in pitch larger than 2 Hz can be perceived. However, even smaller pitch differences can be perceived through other means.
playing 48kHz 24fps audio at 23.976fps ends up being played at 47952Hz hah! you have to be tone-deaf to some degree to not hear the difference tbh...Why do you think ppl see the "m2tech Hiface" as the holy grail? because it has 2.5ppm clocks, and plays your music at pretty much the right pitch. Newer interfaces are 0ppm so you do get *spot-on* sample rates. Music is out of tune in 23.976 movies, it just is.

Here's a great test to improve your tone discerning skills, because all the human brain requires is training: http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/tunetest/
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
We haven't had a big public outcry about PAL, did we
US ppl always sound like Donal Duck in PAL.

Last edited by leeperry; 15th July 2010 at 13:32.
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Old 15th July 2010, 13:34   #3642  |  Link
Mark_A_W
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There's nothing on that link that is relevant to this discussion.

2hz at what frequency (or octave if you like)? 30hz? Yep, I think I could pick 32hz from 30hz.


2hz at 48khz? I can't hear 48khz. Neither can you.

Even at 1khz, I don't think I could pick 1002hz.


You are not making any sense whatsoever. Please keep it real.
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Old 15th July 2010, 14:05   #3643  |  Link
nevcairiel
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So with a 96kHz Sampling rate the change is even more extrem, yes? :P

The sampling rate doesn't map to the pitch like that. Just because both use "Hz" as their unit doesn't mean they are the same..

But hey, i play my 23.976 Movies at 24Hz these days anyway, Reclock to the rescue!

Last edited by nevcairiel; 15th July 2010 at 14:10.
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Old 15th July 2010, 14:15   #3644  |  Link
leeperry
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well, let's take a 15kHz sound...it'll be 14985Hz in 23.976fps, duh. a 15Hz pitch-down is very audible if you A/B them(the human threshold is more or less 2Hz). Anyway, this is OT...we're on a videophile thread where we nitpick until the end of days about video, not quite audiophile

"if it sounds good to you, then it's good"...some ppl watch movies in 25fps, some in 23.976..whatever floats your boat.

and even 24/48.000Hz on a PC doesn't mean much, as this is what DirectX sees...but it's prolly off by ±0.002/3Hz or so anyway, that's what some real world experiments have tended to prove.

Last edited by leeperry; 15th July 2010 at 23:48.
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Old 15th July 2010, 14:31   #3645  |  Link
Mark_A_W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
So with a 96kHz Sampling rate the change is even more extrem, yes? :P

The sampling rate doesn't map to the pitch like that. Just because both use "Hz" as their unit doesn't mean they are the same..

But hey, i play my 23.976 Movies at 24Hz these days anyway, Reclock to the rescue!

I know I was taking the piss.

I know about Nyquist
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Old 15th July 2010, 23:11   #3646  |  Link
SundaY82
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Playing mkv files with 0.22 makes video freeze after a few seconds on my system. Video freeze but audio continues and I can access menus and close player without problem. Tested with both ffdshow and coreavc. 0.20 does not have this problem and avi(xvid) files play fine with 0.22 also.

Created a log file, you can get it here: http://www.multiupload.com/SAKF1MPXTP

System:
Windows 7 x64, aero on
Nvidia 240GT
Reclock, Zoom Player
If you want more info let me know.
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Old 16th July 2010, 09:56   #3647  |  Link
Kamus
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Problem since i switched to nvidia...

I've been using madvr for a long time now on my windows 7 64 bit machine + MPC-HC.
Ever since i switched to nvidia i haven't been able to use madvr at all.
I switched from a 4870x2 to a 265 GTX.
It was a loaner until the 480 GTX went on sale, which i've now used since it came out.
Basically what happens is MPC won't play anything if madVR is the renderer, it just hangs right after i open any video file, any other renderer seems to work fine, and it used to work just fine back when i had the 4870x2.

I've tried numerous nvidia drivers, none of which work. (right now i'm using the latest beta, but i've been trough at least 5-7 driver releases since i switched, no luck what so ever though)

If anyone has a hint, i'll take it.
Thanks in advance.

Also, i'm not 100% sure if it did work on the 265, to be honest i simply forgot, but actually i think this happened as soon as i got the 480.

Last edited by Kamus; 16th July 2010 at 10:00.
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Old 16th July 2010, 10:30   #3648  |  Link
nevcairiel
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@Kamus:
I had the same problem once. Reset all your MPC-HC settings (uninstall, reinstall, make sure to deselect all "keep settings" checkboxes). It solved it for me, back then!
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Old 16th July 2010, 11:08   #3649  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlnl View Post
Tried to play 1080i50 H264 film based content using CoreAVC (set to No interlacing (weave))+ MADVR. Display is set to 1080p50.
PQ is very good. No deinterlacing artfacts.
Does that mean that CoreAVC+Madvr restore original 25p film source from 1080i50 'container'?
And we do not need advance hardware vector adaptive deinterlacing for films in 1080i50 format?
European broadcasters use 1080i50 for movies and it seems that the flags are always set correctly. which means that you can simply set the decoder to "weave" and you'll automatically get perfect 1080p25. I've been using this setting in CoreAVC for years. I'm playing back all my 1080i50 h264 movies this way. Works perfectly.

"Vector adaptive deinterlacing" is made for video content, not for movies. For movies you just need to find the right fields and weave them together. For 60i that is called IVTC (inverse telecine).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Revision 3508 of ffdshow now adds adds madVR to list of compatible renderers for dynamic format changes.
Nice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajp_anton View Post
Feature request:

If the video is going to be upscaled by a factor or number of pixels less than [set by user], do not resize at all.
For example, when playing a 1916x800 video on a 1920x1080 screen, leave 2 pixels wide black bars on each side of the video instead of upscaling.
I agree that this would be nice. However, ultimately the media player controls exactly how scaling is done. madVR just tells the media player which aspect ratio is "preferred". But then the media player tells madVR into which window size to scale exactly. So your feature request should be posted in the support thread of your favorite media player.

That said, madVR could eventually overwrite the media player's wishes. But that's a feature that is way down my priority list right now. So many more important things I need to implement first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post
This latest video I'm encoding isn't working with madVR. It just draws a black screen, no video at all. It gets the input right but it doesn't draw it.
Have you tried different decoders? Does it work with all other renderers? If so, a sample would be helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andybkma View Post
Hi, just want to report a problem with the newest version .22. Using XP SP3 and Zoom Player, mouse functions don't work inside the viewing area whether in window mode or fullscreen.
Will be fixed in v0.23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigunflame View Post
Madshi, while doing some random testing (unrelated to AR), I've came across a regression of sorts.

To reproduce on my end:
I play any h264 video, so that CoreAVC2 is utilized in MPC-HC (r2116).
While the video is playing, I open the CoreAVC2 Filter configuration, modify any setting (say, input level for example) & hit apply.
After doing so, the video will freeze, meanwhile the audio continues in the background.
Will be fixed in v0.23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
I prefer ATI right now because:

(1) The "power per watt" ratio is clearly better, which is very important for me (because HTPCs are usually thermally limited).
Well, would that still be the case if you took CoreAVC CUDA in account?
The NVidia GTX 460 has a TDP of 150 Watts. The Radeon 5750 has a bit less memory bandwidth, but seems to have a bit more shader power (at least more GFLOPs) and has a TDP of only 86 Watts. That is an extremely big difference IMHO. And I don't think that CUDA will make up for that. But that's just my personal opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank K Abbott View Post
madshi,
Can you make the renderer downsize anything greater than or equal to the screen resolution to like 1/2 the original size? I like the way Haali Renderer does that.
I never really liked how Haali did that. Maybe I could add that as an option somewhen in the future, but not anytime soon. So much more important stuff on my to do list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pankov View Post
madshi,
last night I upgraded my video card to ATI 5750 and I was pretty happy with the results until suddenly an hour or so into a recorded basketball game (720p@59.940) it started dropping frames.
Everything was butter smooth before this.
I tried everything - changing settings in madVR, changing back to v0.21, removing ReClock because I've upgraded it to 1.8.7.0 the same evening, changing refresh rates and going back to 59.970 but sadly nothing helped.
Since the problem occurred it was present on both monitors (2x 1920x1080 @ 59.940).
I've managed to make a log file for you
http://www.mediafire.com/?iiymnwmzmht
As far as I noticed the problem was in the high rendereing times (max (5s)) but even after I lowered the settings to Nearest Neighbor the dropping continued.
I checked with GPU-Z and the GPU load was ~35% with Spline64 at all scaling options ... and there was no fluctuations in the GPU/Mem frequencies.
The only thing that helped was a restart of the computer.
So the question now is - is my new video card somehow defective or it's something else? But what?
(I've check the CPU usage and the list of processes and there wasn't anything out of the ordinary)
5 seconds, as in 5000 milliseconds? Are you serious???

If a reboot cured the problem, then I don't think it's a hardware problem. But I don't really know for sure. Can you reproduce it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
I never really paid attention(due to the previous OSD color being too dark) to the amount of jitter you get when switching resolutions..yay! it usually starts at 96.00033Hz for me...then hiccups very quickly between ~33/~25, and then stabilizes after a few mins and slowly decrements to reach 96.00015Hz 90 mins later.
The madVR refresh rate information is based on doing some clever math and a lot of educated guessing. The only reason why it stabilizes after a while is that madVR collects more data and can based on that do a more exact guess. I don't think this has much to do with jitter. The information madVR gets is simply not exact enough for madVR to guess exactly right on the first try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SundaY82 View Post
Playing mkv files with 0.22 makes video freeze after a few seconds on my system. Video freeze but audio continues and I can access menus and close player without problem. Tested with both ffdshow and coreavc. 0.20 does not have this problem and avi(xvid) files play fine with 0.22 also.

Created a log file
Can't see what's wrong in the log. The decoder suddenly stops sending frames, but I don't know why. Please try again with v0.23. Can you still reproduce it with v0.23? If so, does it happen with all videos or only with some? If only with some, can you try to make a small sample with which I could reproduce the problem on my PC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
Problem since i switched to nvidia...

I've been using madvr for a long time now on my windows 7 64 bit machine + MPC-HC.
Ever since i switched to nvidia i haven't been able to use madvr at all.
I switched from a 4870x2 to a 265 GTX.
It was a loaner until the 480 GTX went on sale, which i've now used since it came out.
Basically what happens is MPC won't play anything if madVR is the renderer, it just hangs right after i open any video file, any other renderer seems to work fine, and it used to work just fine back when i had the 4870x2.
Need a log file.
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Old 16th July 2010, 11:09   #3650  |  Link
madshi
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madVR 0.23 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* fixed: some mouse events didn't work in ZoomPlayer, anymore
* fixed: when changing CoreAVC settings, madVR video stopped updating
* fixed: when ffdshow needed bigger buffers, there was a crash
* made OSD half transparent again (for now)
* removed "use managed 3dlut texture" option
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Old 16th July 2010, 15:28   #3651  |  Link
leeperry
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Thanks for the new version!
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The madVR refresh rate information is based on doing some clever math and a lot of educated guessing. The only reason why it stabilizes after a while is that madVR collects more data and can based on that do a more exact guess. I don't think this has much to do with jitter. The information madVR gets is simply not exact enough for madVR to guess exactly right on the first try.
Oh OK, but I also see Reclock's "ppm" indicator being quite high and slowly decrement to 0.17ppm(which is the lowest it can achieve).

BTW, what does the "allow output format changes during playback" ffdshow option do in real world now that mVR supports it? will it smoothen AR changes within the same session or something?

Also, I've run more testing again and I do need the "normal" timings, otherwise I get random delayed frames.

Last edited by leeperry; 16th July 2010 at 19:28.
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Old 16th July 2010, 15:40   #3652  |  Link
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madshi, working fine with 0.23, thanks!
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Old 16th July 2010, 17:55   #3653  |  Link
Kamus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Need a log file.

Well, i hope this is what you're looking for, i couldn't find an actual log file, but this is what windows reports:


Description:
A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows.

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: AppHangB1
Application Name: mpc-hc.exe
Application Version: 1.3.1959.0
Application Timestamp: 4bfe65b2
Hang Signature: 92d7
Hang Type: 1
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Hang Signature 1: 92d70f8903c08cbf12a3623f04334a91
Additional Hang Signature 2: ac34
Additional Hang Signature 3: ac3410139dfad996d22c29776c4feb61
Additional Hang Signature 4: 5ee9
Additional Hang Signature 5: 5ee945f24ef1e3969c12e40f8dfea169
Additional Hang Signature 6: bf30
Additional Hang Signature 7: bf3037cc12d5223daa882788d51c4378


Thanks again.
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Old 16th July 2010, 20:52   #3654  |  Link
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@Kamus: madshi probably wanted you to use the debug version of madVR.ax.
You can find this file in the zip package (madVR [debug].ax). Just rename it to madVR.ax and replace the original file.
The log file is written to C:\ I guess .
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Old 16th July 2010, 21:44   #3655  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by andybkma View Post
Hi, just want to report a problem with the newest version .22. Using XP SP3 and Zoom Player, mouse functions don't work inside the viewing area whether in window mode or fullscreen.
Will be fixed in v0.23.
I can confirm that most of the mouse problems are fixed with the new version. Sadly one from before v0.22 is back - I've configured double click to go fullscreen and single click and drag to move the video window but if I try to go fullscreen when using madVR the video window moves on the first click - it "jumps" down and right as much pixels as was it's initial position from screen coordinates (0,0).

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
5 seconds, as in 5000 milliseconds? Are you serious???

If a reboot cured the problem, then I don't think it's a hardware problem. But I don't really know for sure. Can you reproduce it?
No, no.
I meant that the rendering times where high (~50ms) according to the max stats (5s).
Sadly I'm not able to reproduce the problem for the moment. I'll watch more basketball (59.970) this night and I'll report if it happens again.

Also there is one more problem with v0.23 (present in v0.22 also) - the incorrect composition rate. After changing the refresh rate of the monitor if I start the playback without moving any transparent windows or using any other kind of fancy features of Win 7 - like the new 3D task switch, madVR ... or it's probably Win 7 itself ... doesn't recognize the new composition rate. It's enough to only move around a window with transparent title bar to force a composition rate update which brings the playback back to "stutter free mode"

Last edited by pankov; 16th July 2010 at 21:47.
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Old 16th July 2010, 22:00   #3656  |  Link
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Ok, i've tried the debug .ax that is supposed to write a log file on the desktop, no luck, it doesn't even write the file, MPC just hangs right after i open any video.

Any ideas?
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Old 16th July 2010, 22:54   #3657  |  Link
DigitalLF
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Kamus this is my wild guess but your running vista or win7? if so try to start MPC as admin (right click and start as admin)
__________________
Gigabyte G1.Sniper Z87, I7 4770K (3.5ghz), Gigabyte Radeon 280x, Win8.1 x64, ATI 15.7.1, MPC-HC BE 1.4.6 1478, MadVR v0.90.21, LAV Filters 0.68.1,
XySubFilter 3.1.0.746
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Old 16th July 2010, 23:04   #3658  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
Ok, i've tried the debug .ax that is supposed to write a log file on the desktop, no luck, it doesn't even write the file, MPC just hangs right after i open any video.

Any ideas?
Could you try to use the debug version on another PC just to make sure that the debug version is setup correctly?
Also the log file is called "madVR - log.txt" and is written to your Desktop not the C:\ drive.
Otherwise it seems that madVR isn't even loaded if no log is written at all. Maybe you should try another decoder/splitter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalLF View Post
Kamus this is my wild guess but your running vista or win7? if so try to start MPC as admin (right click and start as admin)
I thought the same and set the UAC to maximum. But even then the log file is written to my desktop w/o running MPCHC as admin.
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Old 17th July 2010, 06:10   #3659  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR 0.23 released
Can confirm the settings are fixed
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Old 17th July 2010, 14:39   #3660  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajp_anton View Post
Feature request:

If the video is going to be upscaled by a factor or number of pixels less than [set by user], do not resize at all.
For example, when playing a 1916x800 video on a 1920x1080 screen, leave 2 pixels wide black bars on each side of the video instead of upscaling.
I agree that this would be nice. However, ultimately the media player controls exactly how scaling is done. madVR just tells the media player which aspect ratio is "preferred". But then the media player tells madVR into which window size to scale exactly. So your feature request should be posted in the support thread of your favorite media player.
I was thinking that madVR could add those black bars so that when the media player requests 1920x1080, it will get 1920x1080, and will never know that madVR added black bars instead of rescaling it.
Though I can see the problem when a media player wants 1916x1080 upscaled to 1920x1082 on a >16:9 computer screen...
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