Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10th September 2019, 03:24   #601  |  Link
Calvi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 11
Here is a sample (~110mb), at the 27sec mark the lotto numbers roll in which show combing artifacts with all but CUVID or software deinterlacing for me.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AhrKCcZdae3QgY8E...CHmEA?e=X1c4HK

Note: My setting were:
Splitters : I tried TSREADER from Media Portal & LAV Splitter
Decoders: LAV video decoder DXVA2 CB, DXVA2 Native, D3D11 Native, CUVID
Renderers: EVR, MadVR

Player: zoomplayer.

Last edited by Calvi; 10th September 2019 at 05:21.
Calvi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2019, 14:21   #602  |  Link
GTPVHD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 252
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce...-ready-driver/

Nvidia GeForce 436.30 WHQL driver.
GTPVHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2019, 20:18   #603  |  Link
littleD
Registered User
 
littleD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvi View Post
Here is a sample (~110mb), at the 27sec mark the lotto numbers roll in which show combing artifacts with all but CUVID or software deinterlacing for me.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AhrKCcZdae3QgY8E...CHmEA?e=X1c4HK

Note: My setting were:
Splitters : I tried TSREADER from Media Portal & LAV Splitter
Decoders: LAV video decoder DXVA2 CB, DXVA2 Native, D3D11 Native, CUVID
Renderers: EVR, MadVR

Player: zoomplayer.
I think its indeed mixed mode interlacing (mbaff). Using lavf (cb mode) and madvr on default do deinterlace correctly on intel. It turns on deinterlacing in madvr statistics. Even if you choose cb mode in lav, also choose specific gpu to decode. That makes you sure to use cb mode.
littleD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2019, 03:03   #604  |  Link
Calvi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 11
Thanks for taking a look littleD.

I have repeated the same observations on a totally different machine (Laptop with Nvidia 330GT).
I also have repeated the same with MPC-HD instead of Zoomplayer and again only CUVID is 100% working for me.
I also tried LAV output at 25 vs 50 frames, MadVR again as film vs video, forcing deinterlacing in LAV etc.
Results are always the same on both machines even though a huge number of other things are different.


Here are three screen caps from MPC-HC Using GT330 and Internal LAV (0.70.2.1-git)



Note: My main system is RTX2070, driver 436.15 using LAV 0.74 and Zoomplayer 14.5 and this exhibits the same behaviour but the above tests are from my laptop with GT330, driver 341.02, MPC-HC & Internal LAV 0.70.2.1.

Last edited by Calvi; 11th September 2019 at 03:10.
Calvi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2019, 05:37   #605  |  Link
littleD
Registered User
 
littleD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 288
You did not metion this explicitely. Sorry thats why i ask. Did you set dxva CB AND choose nvidia adapter? Because You should not leave any automatic gpu in lav filters under "Hardware device to use"

Last edited by littleD; 11th September 2019 at 05:39.
littleD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2019, 09:36   #606  |  Link
Calvi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 11
Yes, tried all combinations of that also. There is only one adapter on my HTPC. In Auto it chooses the RTX2070.
I also set it myself and the result was the same.

I repeated this with my Laptop which has 2 displays and I tried Auto (It chooses the GT330), GT330 #1 and GT330 #2. All the same results again.

Note: your adapter is intel so it may behave completely differently. I'll try my desktop when I get a chance as this has an ATI card.
Calvi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2019, 10:54   #607  |  Link
Klaus1189
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleD View Post
You should not leave any automatic gpu in lav filters under "Hardware device to use"
Why not? What‘s the difference? Does this also affect systems with only one dedicated graphics card or only systems that also have an onboard intel hd or amd integrated graphics?
Klaus1189 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2019, 11:19   #608  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,788
you should not change from automatic to something else if you don't know what you are doing.
and it would effect system with only one card you enter copyback mode with d3d11.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2019, 13:40   #609  |  Link
Calvi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 11
I have also tried my Desktop now with ATI5700 (Yes its old) and of course cannot test CUVID but DXVA2 CB deinterlaces this clip *Almost* correctly.
It fails on the first lotto ball then manages to deal with all the middle ones one and then fails on the end one. Its as if the HW deinterlacer turns on late and off early. (Probably the best the HW deinterlacer in this card can do).

Note: Again if software deinterlacing - (eg Yadif) then all frames are correctly deinterlaced (unsurprisingly as this would be independent of Video Card, and Yadif is probably better than this old cards HW deinterlacing).

Note: The above tests were with EVR.

With MadVR the results are the same except Forcing Film Mode causes all the lotto balls to not deinterlace (as expected). If correctly set to deinterlace then results are identical to EVR so the deinterlacing in the renderer is working fine here. (As best as this card can do anyway).

All of the above is what I would expect for an ATI card (and explains why littleD's sees DXVA2 working for intel) but I am still left with a discrepancy between CUVID and DXVA2 for Nvidia cards. I would love to know whether I am doing something wrong or if there is an actual difference in the HW deinterlacing here?

Has anyone else tried my sample clip with a Nvidia card?

Last edited by Calvi; 11th September 2019 at 13:54.
Calvi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2019, 17:24   #610  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 509
I can confirm the issue with my 1050 Ti and I also have a 'solution' for you: in NVIDIA control panel, uncheck 'Use inverse telecine', and DXVA will have the same deinterlacing behaviour as CUVID.
The problem isn't really the deinterlacing quality, it's that it just not activates reliably.
The programme being played is 2:2 pulldown so no need to deinterlace it, and apparently NVIDIA doesn't reliably detect the small video insert being overlaid onto it with the lotto balls, while CUVID in video mode obviously does as it treats every frame as video.
Note that I say 'solution' because doing that will disable progressive cadence detection in NVIDIA's deinterlacer, but if you only watch modern 25 fps programming I'd say it's safe. The quality of 2:2 pulldown material will be slightly diminished however (you could see shimmering or other artifacts sometimes).
On my Radeon, the GPU detects the interlaced overlay when the 2nd ball appears (which is acceptable IMO) and correctly deinterlaces the rest after that except the white ball. With cadence detection enabled, NVIDIA detects the interlacing in the middle of the second ball's travel, but then loses it again pretty much immediately, and then does the same again with the 3rd ball.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1809, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti

Last edited by el Filou; 11th September 2019 at 17:28.
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2019, 20:16   #611  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,788
using inverse telecine is considered the high quality option in CUVID which doesn't work anymore since win 8 or something like that.

nev may know more this all happend some time ago.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2019, 02:39   #612  |  Link
Calvi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 11
elFilou: Thanks, you are right, that's the one setting I hadn't tried yet. Assumed it wouldn't be relevant for 25fps content. Should never assume anything.

If I disable IVTC then DXVA2 CB does handle the rolling balls correctly. There is still a difference to CUVID though. There is shimmering (as you mentioned) most noticeable in the broadcast logo, especially if you pause or resume, or frame by frame. Its there at playback speed though as well.
This does not happen with CUVID with IVTC ON or OFF so I'm still getting a different (and better) result with CUVID.

You are right that I don't have a lot of need for IVTC being in Australia as most of our content is PAL and some derivative of 25fps. Of course there may be cases where I get a video that is converted from NTSC but this in unlikely to be something I am too fussed about picture quality.

Your observations with Radeon are identical to mine. It's a bit late to detect the first ball and the same on the last (would be because of the delay for the last ball to appear).

huhn: Possibly IVTC is broken in CUVID as turning it On or OFF makes no difference to the result (on this source).
I would need to try a source that requires IVTC to verify this.

IF DVXA2 CB needs IVTC off to work properly and CUVID can't do IVTC (not confirmed) but de-interlaces better than DXVA2 CB then I am still staying with CUVID for my sources.

My whole reason for starting this discussion is that I had read that CUVID and DXVA2 CB use identical de-interlacing firmware and that CUVID was no longer recommended so I tried converting over to DXVA2 CB but was not getting the same results.

Perhaps it would be good for Nev to check this out and I am all for the switch to NVDec if it gives the best of both worlds.

I will add though the power saving of DXVA2 over CUVID is overstated if using MadVR to near max the card as this will end up using the same power anyway. If not using MadVR then DXVA2 will be a fair bit more efficient as it throttles the clock much more aggressively.

On the flip side CUVID changes clock frequencies in huge steps and stays stable with fluctuating loads so the need to change the driver from optimal to power-adaptive etc is also not required.
Calvi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2019, 02:55   #613  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,788
NVDEC is just a repack CUVID.

nvidia can't IVTC(or noone has an implementation of it) it is just there name it will not recreate the original frame rate.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2019, 19:53   #614  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 509
You mean it doesn't decimate?
I feel like we've had this same discussion before, but with 25 PsF content even if it doesn't decimate I definitely see a difference when I check the 'use ivtc' box or not (I remember watching a HD stand-up show with colored metallic ribbons in the background, and the shimmering was horrible with ivtc off), so it's at least detecting the 2:2 cadence. I don't know for the others.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1809, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2019, 20:50   #615  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,788
i didn't say it doesn't do anything. 60i in gives 60p out with that setting or without.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th September 2019, 07:59   #616  |  Link
Klaus1189
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 631
AMD released new Radeon Driver 19.9.2
Klaus1189 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th September 2019, 10:19   #617  |  Link
Klaus1189
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 631
I have found some typos in Radeon driver and already submitted them to AMD, but it isn't fixed yet. Here you can see screenshots of these two typos:
"% 2" has to be "%2", so there is one space, where it shouldn't be and the wildcard doesn't work
"Zurücksetzten" has to be "Zurücksetzen", so there is one "t" too much

What else can I do to reach the real people who are programming or translating that?
Klaus1189 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th September 2019, 11:15   #618  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 509
AMD Forums?
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1809, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 21:17   #619  |  Link
janos666
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 451
I have some kind of tinted banding with Win10 18362.356 and Geforce 436.30 while having the Calibration Loader disabled in Task Scheduler.
Everything is fine as long as I keep the Desktop in SDR mode but some elusive magenta tinted posterization shows up on certain scenes if I switch to HDR mode which persists until a reboot.
Using madVR with NVAPI HDR doesn't trigger this bug, only Win10 HDR does (and no other software is needed, simply flipping the HDR switch does the trick).
I only notice this magenta thingy on HDR content but I guess it's always there (just even less visible). But strangely enough it's not obvious to spot. W,R,G,B,C,M,Y gradient ramps look mostly fine (nothing is ever completely *perfect* but none of these look obviously broken). Most of the scenes in any random movie look fine until some problematic shades bring this out (but then it's clearly noticeable because grayish shades tend to turn into a distinctly magenta shade...).
I am not sure when this started because I didn't use the OS HDR mode. I recently started using the Netflix app from the Windows Store and that requires the OS HDR mode for HDR content. That's when the problems started (and it was hard to figure out where it comes from).
janos666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 08:40   #620  |  Link
Klaus1189
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 631
Did it came with Windows update? Are/Were previous drivers also affected?
Klaus1189 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.