ReClock DirectShow filter : try it ! - Page 10

ogo · 3rd January 2003, 18:24

Works perfectly! Thanks

mwillberg · 3rd January 2003, 18:43

I have some bad news... Now that I use the new version that doesn't eat memory I started to watch a whole movie just to enjoy the smooth playback. Well, now I _am_ able to hear drop-outs of the sound.

It doesn't happen very often, and as you say, seems to get more and more infrequent the longer I have the video playing.

For me the smooth playback is well worth the occasional dropout, but if you somehow find another way to handle AC3-streams I'll be the first to test it.

Still, I wanted to report this since you don't have an amp to test with.

oddball · 3rd January 2003, 22:29

ReClock 99b kills AC3filter .54b SPDIF output stone dead. I lose all SPDIF AC3 output from DiVX files when ReClock is used as a custom audio filter in Zoom Player 2.90

oddball · 4th January 2003, 00:00

Ah sorry. I was not using 99b. But now I have SPDIF output back I have another problem. The AC3 audio keeps going 'blip blip blip' in cycles. Like a kind of dropout.

mwillberg · 4th January 2003, 00:30

@oddball:

The "blip blip blip" you are hearing are probably repeating frames. As ogo has explained in the readme, the only thing he can do to keep the AC3-stream in sync is to remove or repeat frames. I also get some dropouts, but after a while they seem to stop.

oddball · 4th January 2003, 01:22

Nevermind. I finally figured it out. I've set my monitor to a multiple of 24 now as it was at 75Hz and what ReClock was trying to do was speedup an AC3 DiVX to 25FPS to match the screen sync (In auto mode) which causes drop out on AC3 audio as AC3 audio cannot be spedup like MP3 etc can.

Chibi Jasmin · 4th January 2003, 14:50

'AC3 audio can't be speed up' is only true for SPDIF output...with analog 5.1 output speeding up works fine here.

kallekill · 6th January 2003, 11:18

I also get blips in the audio when I use spdif out. It happens about once per second. It would be nice if there was a option to turn of Reclock's spdifout support so that you don't have to uninstall it every time you watch a movie with ac3.

oddball · 6th January 2003, 20:20

Kallekill in Zoom Player you can. Just switch it off in cutsom audio filters. Also the blips are caused by incorrect framerate to video Hz syncing. ReClock will push a 23.976FPS movie to 25FPS if running at 85Hz for instance. I don't know if this is intentional or a bug. I set my video card to 72Hz output (ReClock needs a video Hz that is either a multiple of 24 or 25) and the blips on SPDIF output went away. I use AC3Filter for SPDIF output also.

Ewi · 6th January 2003, 20:29

I have TvTool here with working PAL60 mode. Is it recommended to use it with Reclock for 29,97 sources (I think so...)? What is better for Reclock at 23,97: PAL60 or normal PAL50?

Thank you again...

Safai · 6th January 2003, 21:29

and anything we can do for 23.976fps on ~60Hz NTSC TVOut?

kallekill · 7th January 2003, 00:43

I play 23.97 fps movies at a refreshrate of 120 hz. Reclock resamples it to 24 but I still get blips once per second

Sumster · 7th January 2003, 01:22

Ogo..

Again, great work on this filter! I am one of those who uses SPDIF out to an external amp along with TV out at 60Hz (my all-in-wonder Radeon only allows a refresh of 60Hz when using TV-out)

I now have beautiful smooth video, but as others have noticed am able to hear repeats and drop-outs. My system clock is +/- 0.3 ppm accurate and drop-outs/repeats only occur about every 5-10 seconds (as long as I play video at original speed at 23.976 fps... if I increase the frame rate, there are too many repeats in order to stay in sync).

I had two questions:

1) If my system clock can run that accurately, shouldn't drop-outs/repeats be extremely rare if the audio is trying to stay in sync with an accurate clock?

2) What is the current threshold of desync needed before the filter adds or drops a packet? (eg. once it desyncs 20 ms, 40 ms, etc) Apparently, as long as the AC3 stream is within +/- 100 msec of the video, the desync is not noticable. Therefore, if the threshold were increased before packets were dropped/added, perhaps over time the drop-outs and repeats could cancel themselves out. Of course, if the desync became too severe, something would have to be done.

On the same note, perhaps there could be a monitor saying how many +/- msec of desync there currently is and the actual threshold before correction could be manually set.

Just a thought.... keep up the good work!! This filter is the most impressive advance in home theater PC's in a long time! The number of times I have replaced hardware and tweaked software settings in order to reduce stuttering panning scenes is unbelivable!

Take care... Sumster

Sumster · 7th January 2003, 01:26

P.S. Safai... when I am not using AC3 passthrough but am using 60Hz NTSC with a 23.976 movie.... Reclock says nothing can be done. I manually set it to refresh/2.5... that scales the fps up to 24 fps. Not an exact multiple, but makes playback a bit smoother.

kallekill · 7th January 2003, 01:34

What I would like is a option to turn of framerate adaption when playing ac3-files and still use the clocks correction. Then I can still use reclock without the blips in the audio.

ogo · 7th January 2003, 10:35

Hi guys

The next version of ReClock should not be out until late this week. I'm trying to figure out some problems that are hard to solve.

I will change the behaviour of frame rate adaptation for AC3 SPDIF. For now, reclock tries for example to play 23,976 material at 25 if your refresh rate is a multiple of 25. But that's not a good idea for AC3, because it causes a huge resampling. As you know resampling of AC3 means repeat/drop frames so 25/23,976 means 4% speed change, and it's too much.
What i will do for AC3 (only for AC3) is :
from 23,9 to 24,1 : play at 24fps if refresh rate is a multiple of 24
from 24,9 to 25,1 : play at 25fps if refresh rate is a multiple of 25
from 29,9 to 30,1 : play at 30fps if refresh rate is a multiple of 30
As of now if you play a 23,976 file on a PAL TV, you will get at "blip" every second.

There is a hidden "feature" for AC3 on version 0.99b. If you check "disable clock correction", reclock will stop repeating/dropping AC3 frames. So you should hear "clear" sound. But sound will desync slowly, and you will loose system clock correction (that's a tradeoff for now). I'm still figuring how to improve AC3 support but making something round square is not easy

Now to answer some questions :
oddball> to attenuate "blips", you can choose the framerate instead of leaving it to "auto"

Quote:

and anything we can do for 23.976fps on ~60Hz NTSC TVOut?

Not a perfect solution, but you can try "Refresh rate/2.5" for 23,976 on 60hz NTSC.

Quote:

I have TvTool here with working PAL60 mode. Is it recommended to use it with Reclock for 29,97 sources (I think so...)? What is better for Reclock at 23,97: PAL60 or normal PAL50?

Yes PAL60 is the better choice for 29,97 material. For 23,976 the better is PAL50 (reclock will play the media at 25)

Quote:

1) If my system clock can run that accurately, shouldn't drop-outs/repeats be extremely rare if the audio is trying to stay in sync with an accurate clock?

Accurate system clock means no deviation between system clock and video clock. But audio clock is not related to these 2 other clocks. That's why reclock needs to resample audio to make it stay in sync with the rest.

Quote:

2) What is the current threshold of desync needed before the filter adds or drops a packet? (eg. once it desyncs 20 ms, 40 ms, etc) Apparently, as long as the AC3 stream is within +/- 100 msec of the video, the desync is not noticable. Therefore, if the threshold were increased before packets were dropped/added, perhaps over time the drop-outs and repeats could cancel themselves out. Of course, if the desync became too severe, something would have to be done.

Good question. In the current version between 1 and 4 frames (1 frame = 32ms)

Quote:

On the same note, perhaps there could be a monitor saying how many +/- msec of desync there currently is and the actual threshold before correction could be manually set.

I'll think of it. Maybe a registry tweak ?

Quote:

What I would like is a option to turn of framerate adaption when playing ac3-files and still use the clocks correction. Then I can still use reclock without the blips in the audio.

To turn off frame rate adaptation, just use "Original speed"

Chibi Jasmin · 7th January 2003, 14:06

Quote:

Originally posted by ogo
I will change the behaviour of frame rate adaptation for AC3 SPDIF. For now, reclock tries for example to play 23,976 material at 25 if your refresh rate is a multiple of 25. But that's not a good idea for AC3, because it causes a huge resampling. As you know resampling of AC3 means repeat/drop frames so 25/23,976 means 4% speed change, and it's too much.
What i will do for AC3 (only for AC3) is :
from 23,9 to 24,1 : play at 24fps if refresh rate is a multiple of 24
from 24,9 to 25,1 : play at 25fps if refresh rate is a multiple of 25
from 29,9 to 30,1 : play at 30fps if refresh rate is a multiple of 30
As of now if you play a 23,976 file on a PAL TV, you will get at "blip" every second.

Only change it for SPDIF (digital out)!! Using analog ac3 output resampling from 23.976 to 25 fps is fine as it is!!!!

Maybe that's what you meant anyway, thought it's not that clear, first you said 'ac3 spdif', but then 'ac3'...just to be sure

Sumster · 7th January 2003, 17:23

Ogo, thanks a million.

Just a quick question... is there a way to log how many frames are being added/dropped in the AC3 stream by Reclock while playing a movie (ie. a log file)? I just wanted to see if my system tends to add frames or drop frames (and to calculate the percentages to see if they will cancel out over time, calculate the rate at which desync would accumulate, etc.).

I also look forward manually playing with the "threshold to desync adjustment". Increasing it to 4-6 frames might get rid of the tiny micro-adjustements that are hard to handle.

Thanks again!

Sumster

Safai · 7th January 2003, 18:36

@ogo

is there a way to NOT log the stuff...

Sumster · 7th January 2003, 23:16

Sorry for the multiple messages....

Ogo.. side note. When I enable the "disable clock correction", my AC3 out still seems to drop/add frames and stay in sync. I'm using 99b....

Take care.

6th January 2003, 21:29	#191 \| Link
Safai Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 41	and anything we can do for 23.976fps on ~60Hz NTSC TVOut? __________________ Safai Album List for Winamp

7th January 2003, 18:36	#199 \| Link
Safai Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 41	@ogo is there a way to NOT log the stuff... __________________ Safai Album List for Winamp

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3rd January 2003, 18:24	#181 \| Link
ogo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 156	Works perfectly! Thanks

3rd January 2003, 18:43	#182 \| Link
mwillberg Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 59	I have some bad news... Now that I use the new version that doesn't eat memory I started to watch a whole movie just to enjoy the smooth playback. Well, now I _am_ able to hear drop-outs of the sound. It doesn't happen very often, and as you say, seems to get more and more infrequent the longer I have the video playing. For me the smooth playback is well worth the occasional dropout, but if you somehow find another way to handle AC3-streams I'll be the first to test it. Still, I wanted to report this since you don't have an amp to test with.

3rd January 2003, 22:29	#183 \| Link
oddball Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,264	ReClock 99b kills AC3filter .54b SPDIF output stone dead. I lose all SPDIF AC3 output from DiVX files when ReClock is used as a custom audio filter in Zoom Player 2.90

4th January 2003, 00:00	#184 \| Link
oddball Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,264	Ah sorry. I was not using 99b. But now I have SPDIF output back I have another problem. The AC3 audio keeps going 'blip blip blip' in cycles. Like a kind of dropout.

4th January 2003, 00:30	#185 \| Link
mwillberg Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 59	@oddball: The "blip blip blip" you are hearing are probably repeating frames. As ogo has explained in the readme, the only thing he can do to keep the AC3-stream in sync is to remove or repeat frames. I also get some dropouts, but after a while they seem to stop.

4th January 2003, 01:22	#186 \| Link
oddball Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,264	Nevermind. I finally figured it out. I've set my monitor to a multiple of 24 now as it was at 75Hz and what ReClock was trying to do was speedup an AC3 DiVX to 25FPS to match the screen sync (In auto mode) which causes drop out on AC3 audio as AC3 audio cannot be spedup like MP3 etc can.

4th January 2003, 14:50	#187 \| Link
Chibi Jasmin Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 800	'AC3 audio can't be speed up' is only true for SPDIF output...with analog 5.1 output speeding up works fine here.

6th January 2003, 11:18	#188 \| Link
kallekill Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 174	I also get blips in the audio when I use spdif out. It happens about once per second. It would be nice if there was a option to turn of Reclock's spdifout support so that you don't have to uninstall it every time you watch a movie with ac3.

6th January 2003, 20:20	#189 \| Link
oddball Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,264	Kallekill in Zoom Player you can. Just switch it off in cutsom audio filters. Also the blips are caused by incorrect framerate to video Hz syncing. ReClock will push a 23.976FPS movie to 25FPS if running at 85Hz for instance. I don't know if this is intentional or a bug. I set my video card to 72Hz output (ReClock needs a video Hz that is either a multiple of 24 or 25) and the blips on SPDIF output went away. I use AC3Filter for SPDIF output also.

6th January 2003, 20:29	#190 \| Link
Ewi Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 124	I have TvTool here with working PAL60 mode. Is it recommended to use it with Reclock for 29,97 sources (I think so...)? What is better for Reclock at 23,97: PAL60 or normal PAL50? Thank you again...

7th January 2003, 00:43	#192 \| Link
kallekill Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 174	I play 23.97 fps movies at a refreshrate of 120 hz. Reclock resamples it to 24 but I still get blips once per second

7th January 2003, 01:22	#193 \| Link
Sumster Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 53	Ogo.. Again, great work on this filter! I am one of those who uses SPDIF out to an external amp along with TV out at 60Hz (my all-in-wonder Radeon only allows a refresh of 60Hz when using TV-out) I now have beautiful smooth video, but as others have noticed am able to hear repeats and drop-outs. My system clock is +/- 0.3 ppm accurate and drop-outs/repeats only occur about every 5-10 seconds (as long as I play video at original speed at 23.976 fps... if I increase the frame rate, there are too many repeats in order to stay in sync). I had two questions: 1) If my system clock can run that accurately, shouldn't drop-outs/repeats be extremely rare if the audio is trying to stay in sync with an accurate clock? 2) What is the current threshold of desync needed before the filter adds or drops a packet? (eg. once it desyncs 20 ms, 40 ms, etc) Apparently, as long as the AC3 stream is within +/- 100 msec of the video, the desync is not noticable. Therefore, if the threshold were increased before packets were dropped/added, perhaps over time the drop-outs and repeats could cancel themselves out. Of course, if the desync became too severe, something would have to be done. On the same note, perhaps there could be a monitor saying how many +/- msec of desync there currently is and the actual threshold before correction could be manually set. Just a thought.... keep up the good work!! This filter is the most impressive advance in home theater PC's in a long time! The number of times I have replaced hardware and tweaked software settings in order to reduce stuttering panning scenes is unbelivable! Take care... Sumster

7th January 2003, 01:26	#194 \| Link
Sumster Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 53	P.S. Safai... when I am not using AC3 passthrough but am using 60Hz NTSC with a 23.976 movie.... Reclock says nothing can be done. I manually set it to refresh/2.5... that scales the fps up to 24 fps. Not an exact multiple, but makes playback a bit smoother.

7th January 2003, 01:34	#195 \| Link
kallekill Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 174	What I would like is a option to turn of framerate adaption when playing ac3-files and still use the clocks correction. Then I can still use reclock without the blips in the audio.

7th January 2003, 17:23	#198 \| Link
Sumster Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 53	Ogo, thanks a million. Just a quick question... is there a way to log how many frames are being added/dropped in the AC3 stream by Reclock while playing a movie (ie. a log file)? I just wanted to see if my system tends to add frames or drop frames (and to calculate the percentages to see if they will cancel out over time, calculate the rate at which desync would accumulate, etc.). I also look forward manually playing with the "threshold to desync adjustment". Increasing it to 4-6 frames might get rid of the tiny micro-adjustements that are hard to handle. Thanks again! Sumster

7th January 2003, 23:16	#200 \| Link
Sumster Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 53	Sorry for the multiple messages.... Ogo.. side note. When I enable the "disable clock correction", my AC3 out still seems to drop/add frames and stay in sync. I'm using 99b.... Take care.