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Old 23rd November 2019, 23:47   #2001  |  Link
Beelzebubu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
AV1 has a major problem i forgot.
they changed the bit stream about 10 month ago. i don't have detail if thsi affects decoding

It does not. The errata-1 is exactly that, an errata to clarify some bitstream (mostly level) constraints. Actual decoding is not affected, it is just intended to simplify worst-case for hardware design.

Actual non-cosmetic changes that I am aware of in the errata1:
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Old 25th November 2019, 16:09   #2002  |  Link
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SVT-AV1 v0.7.5
https://github.com/OpenVisualCloud/S...ses/tag/v0.7.5
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- RDOQ for 10-bit
- Inter Intra Class pruning at MD-Staging
- Global Motion Vector support for 8-bit and 10-bit
- Interpolation Filter Search support for 10-bit
- Palette Prediction support
- 2-pass encoding support
- ATB 10-bit support at the encode pass
- Simplified MD Staging [only 3 stages]
- Inter-Inter and Inter-Intra Compound for 10-bit
- Intra Paeth for 10-bit
- Filter Intra Prediction
- New-Near and Near-New support
- OBMC Support for 8-bit and 10-bit
- RDOQ Chroma
- ATB Support for Inter Blocks
- Temporal Filtering for 10-bit
- Eight-pel support in predictive ME
- MCTS Tiles support
- Added AVX512 Optimizations
- Added AVX2 Optimizations
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Old 26th November 2019, 02:30   #2003  |  Link
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As usual, a new version of SVT-AV1 is released just in time for Phoenix to benchmark the previous 0.7 version on the new i9-10980XE and Threadripper 3960X and 3970X. (they unfortunately didn't have a Ryzen 3950X to benchmark)

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...0x-3970x&num=8

Also included are benchmarks of rav1e v0.1 (1080p), dav1d v0.5.0 (1080p, 4k, and 10bit 1080p).


AV1 performance-per-watt charts can be found on this page (scroll down):
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...x-3970x&num=12

...and AV1 performance-per-dollar charts can be found on this page (also scroll down):
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...x-3970x&num=13
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Old 26th November 2019, 12:55   #2004  |  Link
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https://www.mediatek.com/products/sm...dimensity-1000
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MediaTek Dimensity 1000

We’re redefining the flagship smartphone experience with MediaTek Dimensity mobile series. MediaTek's technological and product leadership is exhibited in our new series of 5G-integrated SoC’s (system on chip) designed for premium-to-flagship smartphones.

Through the clever combination of the most powerful and innovative technologies in a leading design, this tiny 7nm chip is the new era of mobility, where everyone, and everything is seamlessly connected.

With MediaTek Dimensity, Expect Incredible.
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Blur-busting displays, fast 4K multimedia & AV1 decoding

HFR (high frame rate) displays are not just an essential feature for gamers to attack the action, but they’re also beneficial to the everyday experience with notably smoother scrolling of webpages and animations in apps. The MediaTek Dimensity 1000 brings this supreme sensation to smartphones with FullHD+ displays up to 120Hz and 2K+ up to 90Hz.

In addition to enabling hardware video encoding and decoding at 4K 60FPS, the MediaTek Dimensity 1000 is the world’s 1st mobile SoC with AV1 format support: the latest and most advanced video streaming technology supported by major global technology and content makers, helping to enable new levels of visual detail, crisper sound and higher resolutions in the latest wave of streaming media.
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Old 26th November 2019, 12:57   #2005  |  Link
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The Mediatek Dimensity 1000 chip can hardware decode 4k 60fps AV1, it can't encode in AV1 in case anyone was wondering. Still fantastic news though
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Old 27th November 2019, 19:03   #2006  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hajj_3 View Post
The Mediatek Dimensity 1000 chip can hardware decode 4k 60fps AV1, it can't encode in AV1 in case anyone was wondering. Still fantastic news though
Encoder ASICs usually take longer to appear if memory serves, I certainly remember HEVC decoders came before encoders in mobile.
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Old 29th November 2019, 17:11   #2007  |  Link
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Originally Posted by hajj_3 View Post
The Mediatek Dimensity 1000 chip can hardware decode 4k 60fps AV1, it can't encode in AV1 in case anyone was wondering. Still fantastic news though
These 4k60 hardware decoders, are they only capable of decoding 1/4 of that in HDR mode?
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Old 30th November 2019, 00:46   #2008  |  Link
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Why would that be the case? The decoder doesn't have to work any harder to decode HDR (assuming you're already doing 10 bit, which you should be).
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Old 30th November 2019, 00:54   #2009  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit View Post
Why would that be the case? The decoder doesn't have to work any harder to decode HDR (assuming you're already doing 10 bit, which you should be).
Perhaps he means tone mapping for displaying HDR content on SDR screens?
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Old 30th November 2019, 01:47   #2010  |  Link
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Phononix benchmarked the performance of Windows 10 vs Linux in both rav1e v0.1 and SVT-AV1 v0.7 on a Threadripper 3970X: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...ws-linux&num=5
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Old 30th November 2019, 01:56   #2011  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit View Post
Why would that be the case? The decoder doesn't have to work any harder to decode HDR (assuming you're already doing 10 bit, which you should be).
Quote:
Originally Posted by soresu View Post
Perhaps he means tone mapping for displaying HDR content on SDR screens?
No, I'm assuming SDR is done with 8 bits and HDR with 10. Why do you assume people would use 10 bit for SDR? Youtube currently uses 8 bits for SDR AV1.

I'm also assuming that these decoders advertised as 4k60 capable are only capable of that in 8 bits. I would a bit surprised if that was not the case.

So possibly they are not really ready for HDR content. And since AV1 is a codec for a time in the future when HDR could be common, that is dissapointing. I would think that since Netflix is pushing hard for it, at least 10bit 4k24 would be supported.
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Old 30th November 2019, 02:00   #2012  |  Link
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No, I'm assuming SDR is done with 8 bits and HDR with 10. Why do you assume people would use 10 bit for SDR? Youtube currently uses 8 bits for SDR AV1.

I'm also assuming that these decoders advertised as 4k60 capable are only capable of that in 8 bits. I would a bit surprised if that was not the case.

So possibly they are not really ready for HDR content. And since AV1 is a codec for a time in the future when HDR could be common, that is dissapointing. I would think that since Netflix is pushing hard for it, at least 10bit 4k24 would be supported.
Looks like I'm wrong in my second assumption, thankfully. At least the WAVE510A decoder does decode 10 bit 4k60

Edit: looks like I also misunderstood what Blue_MiSfit said. He just said decoders should do 10bit, not SDR videos. Well, that was all pointless. But let my mistakes all be public. I'm just gonna go hide in shame.

Last edited by Adonisds; 30th November 2019 at 02:03.
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Old 1st December 2019, 00:05   #2013  |  Link
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All good

10 bit SDR is totally valid, especially in the premium case where source content is at least 10 bit 4:2:2. It's unfortunate that the first wave of hardware HEVC decoders were 8 bit, else all HEVC would be 10 bit today.

We only encode 10 bit HEVC on the service I work on (SDR, HDR10, and Dolby Vision)
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Old 1st December 2019, 11:22   #2014  |  Link
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Anandtech agrees that MediaTek's Dimensity 1000 could be the first consumer mobile SoC to support hardware-decoding of AV1
Quote:
Media encoding capabilities fall in at 4K60, but here the biggest surprise lies in the chipset's support for AV1 video decoding.
As far as we're aware, this make the D1000 the very first consumer mobile SoC to support the format, which is a great leap forward in terms of future-proofing the devices which are based on the new chip.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 22:47   #2015  |  Link
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Beating a dead horse at this point maybe, but dav1d having a milestone for better PPC support and no word about adding basic 10bit support seems extremely odd
Netflix has signalled they are only interested in 10bit content, Youtube started encoding 10bit for their new higher resolution videos as well.
It should clearly be a priority over armv7 and PPC assembly, and imho all the "make it fast" milestones are not reached yet.
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Old 4th December 2019, 02:29   #2016  |  Link
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I also hope that the dav1d team focuses more on 10 bit soon. I think social media / user generated content is a huge use case for AV1, and most of that content is 8 bit for now.
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Old 4th December 2019, 23:01   #2017  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soresu View Post
Perhaps he means tone mapping for displaying HDR content on SDR screens?
HDR tone mapping is generally done in the SoC or GPU. It shouldn't impact decoder performance, but might increase battery draw.

Of course, doing 1080p on a phone is nearly placebo for most TV/film content. 4K is beyond overkill for such a small screen.

Generally decoders support the same resolution/fps in all supported bit modes. It's more expensive to go beyond 8-bit, but not in a way that makes it materially cheaper to only support >8-bit at lower resolutions.

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Old 4th December 2019, 23:06   #2018  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit View Post
I also hope that the dav1d team focuses more on 10 bit soon. I think social media / user generated content is a huge use case for AV1, and most of that content is 8 bit for now.
Do we have any evidence that 8-bit sources encode better in 10-bit than 8-bit in AV1? While that was true for H.264, it was much less so for HEVC, and I don't see why AV1 would have any regressions versus HEVC in that regard.

SW encoding and decoding of >8-bit content is always at least 25% slower, and can be more depending on the bottlenecks. And there's really not much point in doing >8-bit unless the source or display controller can do more than that. Most social media is consumed on phones and computers, for which very few end-to-end >8-bit pipelines exist. And with really high ppi, dithering is nigh invisible.

10-bit is much more valuable on living room screens, which are much larger and have native >8-bit support.

I think everything is going to go half float linear light for internal processing next decade, to make tone mapping, particularly of mixed color space content, way easier and better.

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Old 5th December 2019, 01:49   #2019  |  Link
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isn't 10 bit HEVC still generally better then 8 bit but the difference is very very small?

and the whole story of 8bpp and 16bpp x265. wasn't that an very important part why x264 10 bit was much better thanks to 10 bit bpp instead of 8.
is the 8 bpp x265 even alive?

how does AV1 handle this is this even comparable?

isn't a 8 bit quality pipe absolutely impossible anyway? just the level/RGB conversation pretty much proves it or even the chroma upscale.
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Old 5th December 2019, 01:56   #2020  |  Link
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Dav1d v0.5.2 'Asiatic Cheetah' changelog:

ARM32 optimizations for loopfilter, ipred_dc|h|v
Add section-5 raw OBU demuxer
Improve the speed by reducing the L2 cache collisions
Fix minor issues, including compilation on some OSes
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