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6th January 2013, 00:42 | #16743 | Link |
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I have some Telecine Blu-ray (I'm still wandering why some companies keep using this aberration for their Blu-ray release...) and I experienced some stuttering (clearly visible visible on traveling sequences ) with Madvr IVTC "Film Mode" and I try to understand why. I will be very grateful for any help Madshi!
Currently I use the last stable version of MPC-HC (non BE version), the last version of LAV suite (splitter,Video and Audio decoder), the last version of Reclock and the last version of Madvr, so nothing very exotic. The only specific thing is Reclock is used only as audio renderer, all video speed adaptation has been deactivated. I use Powerstrip to get a frequency of almost 47.952hz (at 0.0005hz) from my HD5750 (1Go DDR5) and my screen resolution is 1280x768. The option I used for Madvr are Jinc3 (with AR) for Chroma and Catmull-Rom (with AR) for image downscaling, all others are the default ones. This set up give a smooth playback without any noticeable stuttering for all the progressive video. But not using the IVTC "Film Mode" for telecined Blu-ray or DVD. Currently, the information given by Madvr is it is able to detect the cadence (3:2 for 29.97 video), the IVTC take between 12 and 14 ms and the rendering between 5 and 10ms. I have no delayed or dropped frames and no presentation glitch. so all seems quite ok but the playback is not smooth. I try different resizing algorithm (even nearest Neighbor) in order to check if this comes from my video card which could be not enough powerful but I'm not sure that have changed anything. Do you think this comes from my video card which cannot manage IVTC and Image Resizing together? And if it is why the Madvr stats seems ok? |
6th January 2013, 01:17 | #16744 | Link |
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6th January 2013, 01:45 | #16745 | Link |
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for a lot of documentaries (e.g. die alpen, die südsee, wildes china, die südsee), the automatic detection whether deinterlacing is needed is wrong. in all cases madvr detects deinterlacing to be needed, but then the playback gets really choppy. it only becomes smooth when manually disabling deinterlacing.
there have been wrong guesses by madvr before, but I am not sure if it was that much before. maybe the lastest update(s) broke anything?
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Laptop Lenovo Legion 5 17IMH05: i5-10300H, 16 GB Ram, NVIDIA GTX 1650 Ti (+ Intel UHD 630), Windows 10 x64, madVR (x64), MPC-HC (x64), LAV Filter (x64), XySubfilter (x64) (K-lite codec pack) |
6th January 2013, 01:56 | #16746 | Link |
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Hey again,
I'm currently using these settings on my desktop (having a GTX 670 and a 3570k there): They are just mindblowing, I can't say this often enough... tons of props to madshi and nevcairiel for their genious work! Anyway, I'm wondering about which settings could be optimal for a HTPC with an i3-2120 (SandyBridge with the small HD 2000 only)? An acquaintance gave me some good settings already (thank god, or acctually him ), but I'm wondering which algorithms I could try to touch to see if I'm getting lags/problems (there a quite a few combinations to test, so it would take a while trying them one after the other I guess) and which are simply unrealistic for my i3-2120 (so I can leaven them aside). Thanks in advance |
6th January 2013, 14:13 | #16748 | Link | |||||||||||||||||
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Thanks, will look at that later... Oh well. I've cropped to mod 4 to make DXVA deinterlacing and scaling happy when the media player uses a cropped source rectangle. I guess I could disable the mod 4 cropping if the default source rectangle is used. That should fix the problem. Quote:
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Maybe they've updated the MPEG2 decoder, but I doubt they might it any faster. Still, I guess I should update the Intel decoder download. |
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6th January 2013, 14:18 | #16749 | Link | |||||||||||||
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Is there a reason you can't use simple 1080p24 output? That way the problem would probably go away. You could also try different video decoders and/or splitters, just to make sure it's not related to that. Quote:
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6th January 2013, 14:44 | #16750 | Link | |
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Oh yeah, someone asked me a question in my MPC guide thread: "It it possible to use Floating Point Processing and 10-bit output together, or is it only one or the other? Again, it sounds stupid, and I'd like to go into more detail but I'm not good at wording tech stuff even though my brain can process it pretty well. And which one would be the best in terms of quality? 10-bit would give better colours, I know that, and that's something I'd like to check out, but would the 32-bit processing give an overall better-looking result, even when dithered to 8-bit? I know that's how MadVR works. I am aware that you need a 10-bit monitor and compatible card for 10-bit output." He already made a search on the matter, but both of us never found anything solid to go on in a conclusion. I'm not familiar with FPP and 10-bit output myself and neither how exactly they work, so if anyone can help with an explanation I would appreciate.
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madVR scaling algorithms chart - based on performance x quality | KCP - A (cute) quality-oriented codec pack |
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6th January 2013, 15:17 | #16751 | Link |
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Yes, it should, and it does for me in MPC and Zoom Player using DXVA2 and madVR, so I don't think that's where the issue is. I'm using Win7 64 Aero, but PowerDVD turns off Aero and the pointer still reappears when the mouse is moved, so I don't think Aero is the issue. Maybe your video driver?
Last edited by jkauff; 6th January 2013 at 15:21. |
6th January 2013, 16:12 | #16752 | Link | |
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I made 2 different tests where you will find the attached log: - the first one at 48hz: http://www.mediafire.com/?twb7bhva342auqd - the second one at 47.952hz: http://www.mediafire.com/?41dndx6bjszhb4o I have stuttering for this two configurations. Unfortunately, I can't use 1080p24 with my projector (Mitsubishi HC3100). its 1080 mode is interlaced and I try to have 24hz in its 768p mode and it reacted not very well. I will take time to try with different decoders, splitters and players as you suggest. |
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6th January 2013, 18:26 | #16753 | Link |
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Has anyone been playing with Complex Sharpen 2? I find it a bit agressive and causing ringing/aliasing on detailed images. Has anyone edited the shading code in MPC to see if they can get a nicer and less aggressive shader algorithm? Something that works nice with Jinc 3 tap perhaps?
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6th January 2013, 18:39 | #16754 | Link | ||
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Screenshots with Print-Screen? Those never work with Overlay. However, using the media player screenshot functionality should work.
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10bit output will *not* give better colors. The only thing it will do is lower the dithering noise. You can play with the native bitdepth of the display in the "device" part of the madVR settings dialog. If you set the display to 7bit the dithering noise will be stronger. If you set it to 6bit, it will be stronger again. You should easily see the noise at 6bit. Probably even still at 7bit. The difference between 6bit and 7bit should be more obvious than the difference between 7bit and 8bit. Now just imagine there were 9bit and 10bit options available. If you go from 6bit to 7bit, then to 8bit. The same difference you see there you will also see when going to 9bit and then 10bit. Just the noise level will be lower, but the colors will stay identical. Quote:
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337: (567.95-567.95 568 112529078), 339: (571.16-571.16 571 113196412), 340: (571.96-571.96 572 113363246), 341: (573.96-573.96 574 113780329), 342: (575.97-575.97 576 114197412), 344: (579.18-579.18 579 114864745), 345: (579.98-579.98 580 115031580), 346: (581.99-581.99 582 115448662), 347: (583.99-583.99 584 115865745), 349: (587.19-587.19 587 116533078), 350: (588.39-588.39 588 116783329), 351: (589.99-589.99 590 117116996) 568, 571, 572, 574, 576, 579, 580, 582, 584, 587, 588, 590 The ideal vsync numbers for smooth playback should be: 568, 570, 572, 574, 576, 578, 580, 582, 584, 586, 588, 590 The cause of the "uneven" vsync numbers are the timestamps which are a result of the timestamps coming from the decoder combined with the IVTC processing. Currently madVR takes these timestamps and calculates the vsync number at which each frame should be shown. In your case that results in non-smooth playback, unfortunately. I guess I could add some sort of "smoothing" algorithm which, after looking at those vsync results, tries to achieve more regular vsync intervals. But then what happens with true VFR (variable framerate) content? I guess I'd first have to write an algorithm to detect whether the decoded (and IVTC'ed) content is VFR or CFR. But this can all become relatively complicated fast. I do have on my to do list to revisit the whole presentation logic and find more optimal solutions for when the display refresh rate is significantly higher than the movie framerate (as in your case). But it will take some time before I get to that. So for now I'd suggest to try different splitter and decoders to see if any of them make a difference. If not then I don't have a quick solution available right now... Last edited by madshi; 6th January 2013 at 18:42. |
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6th January 2013, 18:51 | #16755 | Link | |
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http://www73.zippyshare.com/v/92141861/file.html |
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6th January 2013, 19:01 | #16756 | Link | |
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In the debug log I can see that playback is paused about 1.5 seconds after madVR was created. Then about 7.5 seconds later you've pressed Ctrl+RightArrow to execute a frame step. |
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6th January 2013, 19:11 | #16758 | Link | |
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But just for my understanding, the IVTC corrected frame rate is 23.976fps, right? I try to use the exact double framerate to achieve smooth playback and it work perfectly on progressive 23.976 framerate. Here you said that I should have no stuttering if I were able to have 24hz refresh rate. Why the double framerate is an issue for the IVTC Film Mode currently? Anyway, thank you very much again for your help and for the IVTC film mode which is already the greater option for the watch "live" telecine Blu-ray (and DVD) even if it seems that it can be improved again. |
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6th January 2013, 19:12 | #16760 | Link | |
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The exact steps I took to get the freeze are: Start playback -> Pause -> Hit Frame Step a few times to try and get to a particular frame -> Freeze Occurs. It occurs more often when holding down Frame Step to navigate over a longer period of time say a second or so, and like I mentioned in an earlier post this only happens with 0.85.2 onwards. The screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/ytrOq.jpg Last edited by nub234; 6th January 2013 at 19:25. |
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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