RealVideo 9 Information Thread Discussion - Page 18

wing1 · 10th May 2003, 18:26

@karl

OK, play around enough with all the options in the audience file: I don't understand exactly what the quality setting does when you are using vbrbitrate for encoding. How does that get into effect? The only time I am seeing it doing anything is by using qualityvbr for encoding.

karl_lillevold · 10th May 2003, 18:46

@wing1: you are right, the Quality setting does not affect anything in vbrBitrate mode.

kilg0r3 · 11th May 2003, 11:54

is there any way to do sth like a compressibility check with producer?

Sirber · 11th May 2003, 16:35

Maybe with Quality-based encodes...

karl_lillevold · 11th May 2003, 16:47

AutoRV9 1.3b1 has a compressibility test.

The following requires an understanding of how the compressbility test works: The compressibility test requires a number of bits corresponding to "max quality". The problem is that the best possible quality with XviD (QP=2) is very different from the best quality in RV9. In RV9 a higher maximum fidelity is possible, but this also requires more bits, so if a max quality if vbrQuality=100 was used as the comp test reference, the compressibility test number would be way too small, like 10% or less.

So the challenge was to find a suitable reference quality for RV9. I ran some experiments using the compressibility calculations, and found that vbrQuality=83 with no limit on max bitrate, is a good starting point. However, I have not tried AutoRV9 1.3b1 on enough samples to see how accurate it is. It is, however, a nice first step, so do give it a try and provide feedback as appropriate. Thanks!

slavickas · 12th May 2003, 11:34

@Karl , is helixcommunity site fully working? i can't access binaries & servers mailng list archve

karl_lillevold · 12th May 2003, 16:51

it is working right now, monday morning, US Pacific time.
If you still have trouble, please send email to feedback@helixcommunity.org, and include your user id.
Thanks!

slavickas · 12th May 2003, 21:35

hmm, seems to be working now, probably somewhere were dns errors, thx anyway for reply

31 Flavas · 16th May 2003, 01:43

For ATI users:

Catalyst 3.4 drivers have been posted at ATI.com

slavickas · 20th May 2003, 19:39

@Karl

does m3 have updated encoder?

karl_lillevold · 21st May 2003, 01:03

no, the new High Quality mode (with high complexity too though) will be included in the next milestone build.

Sirber · 21st May 2003, 01:54

Will it be backward-compatible with decoders?

karl_lillevold · 21st May 2003, 02:27

yes

31 Flavas · 21st May 2003, 06:10

Can the next milestone, for that matter the existing milestones, be used by the Helix Producer Plus GUI?

i.e. Can I just copy the new producer.exe and codec folder over the existing ones?

karl_lillevold · 21st May 2003, 06:18

no, unfortunately, it's not that easy. The most general solution is to use the GUI to create a job file, save it as jobfile.rpjf, then run the new command line producer with producer -j jobfile.rpjf. Before this you can edit the job file and add the options for the new high quality mode.

I have also added reg keys though, for convenient settings of these options without editing the job file.

I think I will also provide instructions for how to plug the new encoder DLL into the old GUI producer, then at least the improved compression efficiency will be availble (with the reg key settings).

kilg0r3 · 21st May 2003, 09:16

Where can I get some info this High Quality mode thing?

slavickas · 21st May 2003, 12:12

https://helix-producer.helixcommunit...ease/index.htm

kilg0r3 · 21st May 2003, 13:18

i am so goddam lazy sometimes

yet, i found only something about the high complexity mode is this synonymous with high quality mode.

Btw is this related to what xvid does with vhq?

@Dark Cracker?
I hope there will be a checkbox for this nice thingy. sorry, couldN#t resist

karl_lillevold · 21st May 2003, 14:08

Even though the custom codec option exists in the current milestone, it does not yet have the intended behavior, and the result is a slower encoder, without all the improvement. This will be included in the next Milestone, at which point I will also publish some details as to the differences between the different numbers above 65. I hope a setting will be included in AutoRV9, but it will also be available with a simple reg key, for backwards compatibility with the GUI Helix Producer and older versions of other tools.

Sirber · 21st May 2003, 16:15

As soon as the next milestone will be out, zadude will include in in RMFactory.

10th May 2003, 18:46	#342 \| Link
karl_lillevold Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,584	@wing1: you are right, the Quality setting does not affect anything in vbrBitrate mode. __________________ This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.

11th May 2003, 11:54	#343 \| Link
kilg0r3 ! - User - ! Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,081	is there any way to do sth like a compressibility check with producer? __________________ Keep your tone warm and your sigs decent!

11th May 2003, 16:35	#344 \| Link
Sirber retired developer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 8,978	Maybe with Quality-based encodes... __________________ Detritus Software

11th May 2003, 16:47	#345 \| Link
karl_lillevold Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,584	RV9 compressibility test AutoRV9 1.3b1 has a compressibility test. The following requires an understanding of how the compressbility test works: The compressibility test requires a number of bits corresponding to "max quality". The problem is that the best possible quality with XviD (QP=2) is very different from the best quality in RV9. In RV9 a higher maximum fidelity is possible, but this also requires more bits, so if a max quality if vbrQuality=100 was used as the comp test reference, the compressibility test number would be way too small, like 10% or less. So the challenge was to find a suitable reference quality for RV9. I ran some experiments using the compressibility calculations, and found that vbrQuality=83 with no limit on max bitrate, is a good starting point. However, I have not tried AutoRV9 1.3b1 on enough samples to see how accurate it is. It is, however, a nice first step, so do give it a try and provide feedback as appropriate. Thanks! __________________ This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion. Last edited by karl_lillevold; 11th May 2003 at 16:50.

12th May 2003, 16:51	#347 \| Link
karl_lillevold Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,584	it is working right now, monday morning, US Pacific time. If you still have trouble, please send email to feedback@helixcommunity.org, and include your user id. Thanks! __________________ This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.

10th May 2003, 18:26	#341 \| Link
wing1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 280	@karl OK, play around enough with all the options in the audience file: I don't understand exactly what the quality setting does when you are using vbrbitrate for encoding. How does that get into effect? The only time I am seeing it doing anything is by using qualityvbr for encoding.

12th May 2003, 11:34	#346 \| Link
slavickas I'm Shpongled Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lithuania Posts: 303	@Karl , is helixcommunity site fully working? i can't access binaries & servers mailng list archve

12th May 2003, 21:35	#348 \| Link
slavickas I'm Shpongled Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lithuania Posts: 303	hmm, seems to be working now, probably somewhere were dns errors, thx anyway for reply

16th May 2003, 01:43	#349 \| Link
31 Flavas RV10 Nerd Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 247	For ATI users: Catalyst 3.4 drivers have been posted at ATI.com

20th May 2003, 19:39	#350 \| Link
slavickas I'm Shpongled Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lithuania Posts: 303	@Karl does m3 have updated encoder?

21st May 2003, 01:03	#351 \| Link
karl_lillevold Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,584	no, the new High Quality mode (with high complexity too though) will be included in the next milestone build. __________________ This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.

21st May 2003, 01:54	#352 \| Link
Sirber retired developer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 8,978	Will it be backward-compatible with decoders? __________________ Detritus Software

21st May 2003, 02:27	#353 \| Link
karl_lillevold Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,584	yes __________________ This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.

21st May 2003, 06:10	#354 \| Link
31 Flavas RV10 Nerd Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 247	Can the next milestone, for that matter the existing milestones, be used by the Helix Producer Plus GUI? i.e. Can I just copy the new producer.exe and codec folder over the existing ones?

21st May 2003, 06:18	#355 \| Link
karl_lillevold Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,584	no, unfortunately, it's not that easy. The most general solution is to use the GUI to create a job file, save it as jobfile.rpjf, then run the new command line producer with producer -j jobfile.rpjf. Before this you can edit the job file and add the options for the new high quality mode. I have also added reg keys though, for convenient settings of these options without editing the job file. I think I will also provide instructions for how to plug the new encoder DLL into the old GUI producer, then at least the improved compression efficiency will be availble (with the reg key settings). __________________ This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.

21st May 2003, 09:16	#356 \| Link
kilg0r3 ! - User - ! Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,081	Where can I get some info this High Quality mode thing? __________________ Keep your tone warm and your sigs decent!

21st May 2003, 12:12	#357 \| Link
slavickas I'm Shpongled Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lithuania Posts: 303	https://helix-producer.helixcommunit...ease/index.htm

21st May 2003, 13:18	#358 \| Link
kilg0r3 ! - User - ! Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,081	i am so goddam lazy sometimes yet, i found only something about the high complexity mode is this synonymous with high quality mode. Btw is this related to what xvid does with vhq? @Dark Cracker? I hope there will be a checkbox for this nice thingy. sorry, couldN#t resist __________________ Keep your tone warm and your sigs decent! Last edited by kilg0r3; 21st May 2003 at 13:30.

21st May 2003, 14:08	#359 \| Link
karl_lillevold Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,584	Even though the custom codec option exists in the current milestone, it does not yet have the intended behavior, and the result is a slower encoder, without all the improvement. This will be included in the next Milestone, at which point I will also publish some details as to the differences between the different numbers above 65. I hope a setting will be included in AutoRV9, but it will also be available with a simple reg key, for backwards compatibility with the GUI Helix Producer and older versions of other tools. __________________ This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.

21st May 2003, 16:15	#360 \| Link
Sirber retired developer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 8,978	As soon as the next milestone will be out, zadude will include in in RMFactory. __________________ Detritus Software