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Old 5th January 2017, 19:40   #41881  |  Link
70MM
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
That is due to the fade detection kicking in. If you keep debanding at the same strength fade detection doesn't run at all for a small increase in performance, and it never rerenders 5 frames which causes that spike and can cause dropped frames.
Do you mean e.g. keep both ticks the same med/med?
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Old 5th January 2017, 20:00   #41882  |  Link
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yes keep both the same to avoid it.
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Old 5th January 2017, 20:23   #41883  |  Link
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Originally Posted by pirlouy View Post
Even I can see differences between all these images, especially at the bottom of the back.
You enable anything in madVR there will be differences....
In this case it's absolutely pointless, this is debanding on high setting it'll affect ANYTHING you throw at it by softening it, that doesn't mean it's improving the image at all.. There has to be actual VISIBLE banding...


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i mean debanding clearly works on that image but...
Well technically it would "work" on anything...
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Old 5th January 2017, 21:26   #41884  |  Link
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Thanks for the info about the fade detection causing frame drops.

@ryrynz: Do you think you can find screenshots where debanding is worse than nothing ?
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Old 5th January 2017, 21:30   #41885  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Well technically it would "work" on anything...
there is really no problem in seeing the banding i need medium debanding to remove it even with low it is very visible but the RGB gradation story is pretty hard.
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Old 5th January 2017, 21:38   #41886  |  Link
leeperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgel View Post
Found a free tool that might come in handy
mVR already forces 0.5ms
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Old 5th January 2017, 21:50   #41887  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirlouy View Post
Thanks for the info about the fade detection causing frame drops.

@ryrynz: Do you think you can find screenshots where debanding is worse than nothing ?
There's a bunch if stuff we posted in the forum during development of the debanding algorithm.


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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
there is really no problem in seeing the banding i need medium debanding to remove it even with low it is very visible but the RGB gradation story is pretty hard.
I think it's funny that anyone would consider that source based on that image to require debanding, by that standard basically everything requires debanding. On high without proper banding you're mostly just removing detail softening the image in areas madVR will consider "banding" in the process, seems like folly to me. Personally I'd rather madVR analyse the image and apply debanding only when required but that might be worth it for the overhead, still it would be nice to enable it by default without it harming the image in the areas it's not needed. Remember that high is quite aggressive and optimised for actual clearly visible banding.. Not the above.

Last edited by ryrynz; 5th January 2017 at 22:11.
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Old 5th January 2017, 22:09   #41888  |  Link
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i can't deny that the image is strange there is way to many black clipping in it and the image is only 1.4 mb that is strange with a dithered 1080p image.

and taking your screen i see banding in both!
http://i.imgur.com/jXzOMk6.png
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Old 5th January 2017, 22:13   #41889  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
and taking your screen i see banding in both!
You could probably find some minor "banding" in just about every encode ever released.
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Old 5th January 2017, 22:21   #41890  |  Link
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to my eyes this not minor here i can clearly see 8 or more steps on the back and i won't be shocked that it comes from double expending.
maybe that's the case with normal on this film stuff i don't watch stuff like this usually and i have debanding disabled by default. i now at least one scene where debanding low is kind of ruin it.
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Old 5th January 2017, 22:30   #41891  |  Link
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This is a example where debanding or true 10 bit would be required



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Old 5th January 2017, 22:36   #41892  |  Link
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This is a example where debanding or true 10 bit would be required
if debanding works you don't need 10 bit...

most likely bit rate starved or encoded by an "not so good encoder" well samsung i guess...

BTW. is that a huge pixel error on the camera?
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Old 5th January 2017, 22:50   #41893  |  Link
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Maybe this example convince you more (off/low/medium/high) :



Open in original size of you won't see anything.

Banding is still very noticeable on the top-left side with the "low" setting and you can clearly see here the details lost on the bottom of the image in the trees with the "high" setting.

Last edited by Neo-XP; 5th January 2017 at 22:57.
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Old 5th January 2017, 23:23   #41894  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
if debanding works you don't need 10 bit...

most likely bit rate starved or encoded by an "not so good encoder" well samsung i guess...

BTW. is that a huge pixel error on the camera?
debanding cant fix it you always gonna perceive it you need true precision and internal 10 bit 4:2:2 recording is entering now the Prosumer space it's starting this year at prices around 2000$

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUnpEXaI1S8

4K 30 FPS 2:2:2 10 Bit HEVC

And yeah that red pixel error in Samsungs Demo is strange could be sensor issue could be post processing issue i dunno what it is it is definitely no decoding issue.

Also their whole processing is interesting

The Encoder on the outside here is ATEMEs Titan which does pretty good

Atemes Encoder pretty much dominates most of the Demos, especially LG and Samsung.
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Last edited by CruNcher; 6th January 2017 at 00:09.
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Old 6th January 2017, 01:41   #41895  |  Link
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it is possible to create a smooth gradation with hat sky.

the banding is so terrible it can't be fixed with debanding completely but it is still a mastering issue not a recording.

8 bit is more than enough to show this smooth.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:34   #41896  |  Link
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i need 2100 mb with my RX 480 without NGU with NGU high it is over 2500 and NGU very high it is over 3000.

but finally someone that tested it too thanks
I was running ngu mid or low +3dlut. (Can't run mid +3d lut)
Memory can be lowered by lowering one of the queue, probably render or present, can't remember.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:37   #41897  |  Link
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Minor banding can also be observed in some Astra HEVC 10 bit videos, deband with low strength works wonders against it.
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Old 6th January 2017, 03:06   #41898  |  Link
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Originally Posted by baii View Post
I was running ngu mid or low +3dlut. (Can't run mid +3d lut)
Memory can be lowered by lowering one of the queue, probably render or present, can't remember.
deinterlancing doesn't work properly with lowered GPU queue so this is no real fix.

and even if you run out of Vram you can still run madVR but performance get's bad but that doesn't mean it will go over 40 ms.
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Old 6th January 2017, 03:26   #41899  |  Link
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
mVR already forces 0.5ms
Didn't know that madVR can force a change on the windows timer

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Originally Posted by tahaa7 View Post
OK, thanks. But, the problem with Intel 7th gen mobile processors is that you have to make a choice of either getting a quad-core CPU with a weaker iGPU, or a dual-core CPU with better (Iris Plus) iGPU.

There are more things to consider here.

If you're building a computer solely for madVR and video watching, a quad core or even dual core might be enough, but iGPU won't do that much for madVR either way.

If you want to do other things, depends on what you want to do.


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for madVR get the iris pro.

most content can be hardware decoded. an dual core is fine for most content anyway.

madVR doesn't care about CPU core numbers.
This is totally true true for a madVR usage case scenario ^

MadVR doesn't use much GPU by itself.
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Old 6th January 2017, 05:42   #41900  |  Link
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Minor banding can also be observed in some Astra HEVC 10 bit videos, deband with low strength works wonders against it.
Do you see that Banding on a Premium UHDTV ?

Do you have a Native 10 bit Panel or 8 bit + FRC ?

Anyway Debanding is not a solution but a workaround and im pretty shocked that some find debanding the whole frames efficient same they like to enable dithering (i hate both and want it to finally die)

@ huhn
Of course you can do it better but that source is ok , anyway all these 10 bit demos will come out the most efficient on a real 10 bit Hardware chain that's fact and you know it.

You can throw Debanding and dithering over it and Destroy the result but that will stay a workaround nothing else that can be percepted (and has many issues) on a 55 UHDTV immediately your debanding and dithering will fail in such high gradiation recordings at that output Size especially in Motion you never get that transitiion band free 10 bit wasn't introduced for nothing and consumer can jump around that it's finally here.
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Last edited by CruNcher; 6th January 2017 at 06:04.
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