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Old 15th July 2015, 20:42   #31841  |  Link
XMonarchY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
chroma up scaling will lose a lot of its meaning.
Would Chroma Upscaling also lose meaning if TV is set to output only to 4:2:2? 4:4:4 looks awful on my TV due color luminance issues.
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Old 15th July 2015, 20:45   #31842  |  Link
huhn
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yes it is downscaled again same as with 4:2:0 so the benefit from chroma upsampling is way lower on a 4:2:0 or 4.2:2 screen compared to a 4:4:4 screen.
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Old 15th July 2015, 20:47   #31843  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
Never-ever use Windows Update drivers for anything other than Windows' native drivers (System Devices, USB Hubs, etc). I still have no idea why Windows updates do not include proper GPU drivers from the manufacturer.
there is no other "official" way to get the newest nvidia driver for windwos 10.
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Old 15th July 2015, 20:54   #31844  |  Link
Braum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
yes it is downscaled again same as with 4:2:0 so the benefit from chroma upsampling is way lower on a 4:2:0 or 4.2:2 screen compared to a 4:4:4 screen.
I have a 4:4:4 screen and when I play a bluray I got this :

h264 8bit 4:2:0 -> NV12 8bit 4:2:0

It make sense in a way because the source is 4:2:0 but shouldn't chroma upscaling output in 4:4:4 ?
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Old 15th July 2015, 20:56   #31845  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braum View Post
I have a 4:4:4 screen and when I play a bluray I got this :

h264 8bit 4:2:0 -> NV12 8bit 4:2:0

It make sense in a way because the source is 4:2:0 but shouldn't chroma upscaling output in 4:4:4 ?
that what madVR get's as an input the output of madVR is 8 or 10 bit RGB which is 4:4:4
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Old 15th July 2015, 20:57   #31846  |  Link
6ari8
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
there is no other "official" way to get the newest nvidia driver for windwos 10.
What do you mean by "official"?

Nvidia has been releasing drivers for W10 for a while now.

http://www.nvidia.com/download/drive...px/86512/en-us
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Old 15th July 2015, 21:01   #31847  |  Link
Braum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
that what madVR get's as an input the output of madVR is 8 or 10 bit RGB which is 4:4:4
Thank you, indeed it makes more sense
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Old 15th July 2015, 21:05   #31848  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ari8 View Post
What do you mean by "official"?

Nvidia has been releasing drivers for W10 for a while now.

http://www.nvidia.com/download/drive...px/86512/en-us
that's 353.30 not 353.50 which is now in windows update and currently only there.

i have the 353.50 installer now on my disc so I could share this and by doing this it would be unofficial.

i would like to stop this topic now maybe the driver will be released soon on the nvidia homepage (and i hope with openCL/CUDA) or maybe not.
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Old 15th July 2015, 21:14   #31849  |  Link
6ari8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
that's 353.30 not 353.50 which is now in windows update and currently only there.

i have the 353.50 installer now on my disc so I could share this and by doing this it would be unofficial.

i would like to stop this topic now maybe the driver will be released soon on the nvidia homepage (and i hope with openCL/CUDA) or maybe not.
Oh I see. Sorry for misunderstanding.

Yep 353.50 is still not up on Nvidia. MS just released their first RTM build so that may have a relation with the driver they put up in Windows Update today. I think Nvidia will release it soon.
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Old 15th July 2015, 21:56   #31850  |  Link
XMonarchY
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353.49 Hotfix is the official latest Windows 10 NVidia driver that can be downloaded from NVidia website. I do not understand all this arguing. MS never provided proper NVidia drivers that contain CUDA, OpenCL, and PhysX because MS is stupid like that. If NVidia does not have an official link to these new 353.50 drivers, then you should not be using them.

As far as 4:2:2 chroma upscaling goes - I can undeniably see the difference between selecting Jinc and selecting NNEDI3 when I zoom in slightly, so there is definitely some improvement, even with 4:2:2 output.

Another thing I wanted to ask Madshi was about dithering on a 12bit display, using 10bit+ madVR setting. Does it actually make sense to use ED or whichever dithering on 12bit display? Disabling dithering on 12bit display gets rid of quite a bit of noise and yet gradations remains very smooth. I noticed another difference too. When I toggle between ED dithering and no dithering, using 12bit NVidia CP setting and 10bit+ D3D11 Exclusive mode setting, the actual image colors change as if a different colorspace is used. That makes no sense to me because AFAIK ED or whichever dithering is supposed to create a perception of more colors by reducing visible gradations (same as using higher color bit depth), but is it supposed to actually show/create DIFFERENT colors? That goes against creating a 3DLUT/calibrating TV for the purpose of seeing the image as it was mastered...
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Last edited by XMonarchY; 15th July 2015 at 22:04.
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Old 15th July 2015, 22:29   #31851  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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I get some major back and forth jumping with v0.88.17 and v0.88.18. No problems prior to this.
http://217.160.126.132/madVRv0.88.18...h%20jumping.7z

D3D9
Win 7 x64 (Aero off)
MPC-HC x64 (LAV)
Radeon HD5850 Catalyst 15.7
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Old 16th July 2015, 04:44   #31852  |  Link
MistahBonzai
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Quote:
When I toggle between ED dithering and no dithering, using 12bit NVidia CP setting and 10bit+ D3D11 Exclusive mode setting, the actual image colors change as if a different colorspace is used. That makes no sense to me because AFAIK ED or whichever dithering is supposed to create a perception of more colors by reducing visible gradations (same as using higher color bit depth), but is it supposed to actually show/create DIFFERENT colors?
Did you carry out this test on an Eizo Foris FG2421 (as listed in your sig)? If so then the FG2421 has 8-bit MVA panel and it utilizes its FRC stage to create a pallet of 1 billion colors. I'm not sure how adjusting dithering as if it were a 10 (or 12?) bit panel affects color accuracy. I looked into the FG2421 as a 2nd display based on favorable reviews regarding calibration results. In the end I passed in part due to the lack of true 10-bit.
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Old 16th July 2015, 11:00   #31853  |  Link
Dogway
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Is it normal that playback (initialization) delays 3 or 4 seconds for every video (even windowed)? I tested LAV Video with CUVID, DXVA and CPU, then also with madVR, EVR and VMR-9. I say because I just did some tests using the iGPU (for some performance benchmarks) and all videos played fine within a second.

-----------------------

I did some benchmarks concerning the iGPU Intel HD 4600 to extrapolate with UCFF systems like Intel NUC. Actually an Intel HD 6000 is very close to a HD 4600 according to passmark. The goal is to upscale using NNEDI. The miliseconds in brackets are the average rendering time.

Using DXVA2 (copy-back) in LAV Video:
(30ms) You can set all setting tuned for quality with NEDI (no neuron) doubling, this is probably better than only lanczos3 but still feels like droping frames (not reported in stats)
(44ms) NNEDI3 (16) doubling only luma with everything else to minimum (optimizations) is still 3 frame drops + 3 reps off from ideal, probably needs Iris Pro to make this work, or skylake iteration of iGPU.
(18-23ms) 1080p content is fine since no scaling is needed
(21ms) 720p content (internally lanczos upscale)

Last edited by Dogway; 16th July 2015 at 11:16.
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Old 16th July 2015, 11:24   #31854  |  Link
Prolesious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
there is no other "official" way to get the newest nvidia driver for windwos 10.
So there is a newer driver available other than the what's on nvidia's page for windows 10?

Nvidia's page has one there which is version 353.30 released on, June 22, 2015
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Old 16th July 2015, 11:25   #31855  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KhR0N1K View Post
i noticed something else im not sure is fixable. but in FSE DX11 its not as Exclusive as FSE DX9 was. for example my kaspersky trial notification still pops up while in FSE DX11 mode or the "Completed" msg pops up after successful burn with ImgBurn the video turns black for about half a second then stays Exclusive. the FSE DX9 version stayed fully Exclusive in both these situations.
I don't think there's much I can do about that. That's probably a different behaviour between DX9 and DX11.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j5627429 View Post
Is there a way to adjust the size of the OSD text?
Not at this time. Maybe some time in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j5627429 View Post
I'm currently doing 4:4:4 8-bit RGB 2160p@24hz.

When new video card arrives I want to do 2160p@60hz so I can use SVP instead of my projector's built-in frame interpolation.

However, my display is not fully hdmi 2.0 compliant and only accepts 4:2:0 2160p @60hz.

So my question is: will outputting 4:2:0 negate any of the benefits of madvr processing, or will it be mostly the same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
chroma up scaling will lose a lot of its meaning.
^

Chroma upscaling is one of the less important things. So the loss might not be dramatic. But it's a loss, in any case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VincAlastor View Post
yesterday i donate SmoothVideo Project (SVP). Today i wanna donate madshi for madVR and eac3to, because you give me an amazing home cinema experience and i wanna say thank you. But i can't find a donate button. Can you show me, please?
At this point I'm not accepting donations just yet. I plan to, when I reach version 1.0, though. Thanks for your offer, though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VincAlastor View Post
BTW wich are the best configs for SVP and madVR for 1080p? i just have some artefacts when i use the highest SVP Profile (5g) and the crystal sharp madvr in mpc-hc (against EVR renderer, there are less optical artefacts, but i think i just can't see it, because the renderer isn't that sharp like madVR).
Can't help with that, don't have much experience with SVP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braum View Post
I have presentation glitches and the render and present queue does not fill when I'm in FSE mode with "present a frame for every VSync" activated.

When I start to play a bluray in FSE this message comes up, but the movie still play nicely.

When I switch to windowed mode there is no more problem with "present a frame for every VSync" activated.

If I want to use FSE mode without presentation glitches and queue problems I have to uncheck "present a frame for every VSync".
You can try v0.88.19. But if you get good playback with "present a frame for every VSync", then by all means use it!

This whole problem seems to be related to DXVA scaling. You could also try using a madVR scaler instead of DXVA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ari8 View Post
It behaves the same way whenever an OSD element is drawn (debug OSD, seekbar, filename, playback time, volume change, etc...) and it still exists in v0.88.18.

And yes, the same stuttering happens in all cases but it's much more random on the Intel and happens only a few times in a couple of minutes.
Please try again with v0.88.19. If you still get the issue, try disabling both D3D11 and the "use a separate device for presentation" options. That might "solve" the issue. At this point I think if you still get the issue with v0.88.19, it's most probably some sort of GPU driver issue, unfortunately...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
I am using a GTX660 (driver 353.30), connected to a Pioneer LX-6090 (Kuro 9G). Using madVR and LAV Filters I set up everything to output 10bit. madVR OSD agrees with me. Nvidia control panel allows me to select 12bit color resolution.

Now the thing that's driving me crazy is that once in a while I get, when the TV switches resolution to 24Hz, the info bit in the top corner (this is a TV small info panel on screen) stating 36bit mode. But this happens once in a while and, for the most part, I get the "regular" 1080p info bit, with no 36bit mention. It appears to be totally random. I just started a movie, got the 36 bit thing, recalled the info panel with the proper remote button, again 36 bit. Stopped the movie, restarted it... just 1080p, no 36 bit. NOTHING changed.
Does madVR report 10bit output mode? If so, it must be the GPU drivers which do these weird things. All madVR can do it output 10bit to D3D11. The rest is up to the GPU driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
Another thing I wanted to ask Madshi was about dithering on a 12bit display, using 10bit+ madVR setting. Does it actually make sense to use ED or whichever dithering on 12bit display? Disabling dithering on 12bit display gets rid of quite a bit of noise and yet gradations remains very smooth. I noticed another difference too. When I toggle between ED dithering and no dithering, using 12bit NVidia CP setting and 10bit+ D3D11 Exclusive mode setting, the actual image colors change as if a different colorspace is used. That makes no sense to me because AFAIK ED or whichever dithering is supposed to create a perception of more colors by reducing visible gradations (same as using higher color bit depth), but is it supposed to actually show/create DIFFERENT colors? That goes against creating a 3DLUT/calibrating TV for the purpose of seeing the image as it was mastered...
Dithering should not affect colors. If they do, something weird is going on. IMHO dithering should still be beneficial even when using 10bit output mode in madVR. But let your eyes be the judge and choose what looks best to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
I get some major back and forth jumping with v0.88.17 and v0.88.18. No problems prior to this.
Does it still occur with v0.88.19? I fear that this might be a bug in the GPU drivers. Does unchecking the "use a separate device for presentation" option help? FWIW, on my PC, everything works fine with Intel, AMD and NVidia GPUs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogway View Post
Is it normal that playback (initialization) delays 3 or 4 seconds for every video? I tested LAV Video with CUVID, DXVA and CPU, then also with madVR, EVR and VMR-9.
So you tested this and that, but you didn't really tell us whether the delay occurs always, or only in some of these tests (and in which). Because of that I can't really say anything meaningful.
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Old 16th July 2015, 11:31   #31856  |  Link
madshi
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madVR v0.88.19 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* fixed: using the sharpening algos sometimes produced startup crashes
* fixed: forced film mode sometimes produced crashes
* fixed: weird resolution videos resulted in black screen with some old GPUs
* optimized OSD rendering performance slightly
* when running in a debugger, keyboard hook is not set, anymore
Some more bugfixes.
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Old 16th July 2015, 11:32   #31857  |  Link
Dogway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
So you tested this and that, but you didn't really tell us whether the delay occurs always, or only in some of these tests (and in which). Because of that I can't really say anything meaningful.
I tested with this and that and I always get 3-4 second delays (with nvidia GPU), 1 second then using iGPU. Out of curiosity, can I tell what GPU to use for madVR (just like I can with LAV Video; DXVA, QS, CUVID...)?
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Old 16th July 2015, 11:34   #31858  |  Link
madshi
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So it's not madVR specific, right? Then it's OT (out of topic) in this thread.

madVR currently does not report which GPU it uses.
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Old 16th July 2015, 11:38   #31859  |  Link
Dogway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
So it's not madVR specific, right? Then it's OT (out of topic) in this thread.

madVR currently does not report which GPU it uses.
Yes, sir "offtopic". Bad day huh?
Take it easy
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Old 16th July 2015, 12:29   #31860  |  Link
Braum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

You can try v0.88.19. But if you get good playback with "present a frame for every VSync", then by all means use it!

This whole problem seems to be related to DXVA scaling. You could also try using a madVR scaler instead of DXVA.
I use it but I thought it was a madvr bug so I wanted to report it ^^

Thank you for your answer !

I keep using DXVA/DXVA because after some testing I found it to be the most natural processing (in my case ofc).

Source : Bluray 1920x1080

Monitor : 1680x1050

Zoom : 400 %

Same frame each time ofc

Chroma upscaling/Image downscaling







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