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23rd January 2016, 18:40 | #13821 | Link |
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I only renamed the ac3 (osso) because I make other encodes to AC3 (with Aften and ffmpeg) with the same result.
The DTS remain with the same name downloaded (orig). Maybe the problem is your Audacity decoders. I decoded the compressed formats (out of Audacity) to wavs, and only load in Audacity decompressed wav files. I decoded the DTS with eac3to using libdcadec and ArcSoft and both show the same problem. The AC3 decoded with eac3to libav. Try using that method because your DTS spectrogram seems limited to 300 Hz, but mine go until 3000 Hz and more, and I don't see problems with AC3 spectrogram (like you show in video) also until 3000 Hz. EDIT: Using my Audacity decoders (ffmpeg-win-2.2.2), both spectrograms go until 3000 Hz but seems fine: The DTS don't have high harmonics and the AC3 is equal to the DTS without the problems in your video.
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BeHappy, AviSynth audio transcoder. Last edited by tebasuna51; 23rd January 2016 at 19:01. Reason: Add info |
23rd January 2016, 21:22 | #13822 | Link | |||
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One last question: In http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=27131 I read that based on the bitrate AC-3 limits the available frequency range, eg. 256 kbps up to 12 kHz, 384 kbps up to 18 kHz and 448 kbps or higher with full 20 kHz. Is that true? I thought that a 2 channel 224 kbps AC-3 has a better quality per channel than a 6 channel 640 kbps AC-3. Maybe I should just go with 640 regardless of the amount of channels? |
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23rd January 2016, 23:51 | #13823 | Link | ||
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More or less, yes.
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For 2.0: 112 Kb/s up to 12.4 KHz, 160 Kb/s up to 15.8 KHz, 192 Kb/s or higer up to 20.3 KHz
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24th January 2016, 22:02 | #13824 | Link |
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In general, without auxiliary specifications, you can use AC3 in VBR mode too (I believe Aften supported that). But there are consumer media specifications (e.g. "DVD Video") which require CBR audio streams. AC3 can, but is not allowed to under certain circumstances.
For audio formats with a good "channel coupling" (known as "Mid/Side" encoding for MP3 which supports stereo at most, but it can be handled in a similar way for more channels too), there is a theorem that the bitrate shall be in relation to the square root of the number of full frequency channels to achieve similar quality. It usually works quite well for AC3, comparing a 2.0 bitrate as √2 times a theoretical base mono bitrate with a 5.1 bitrate as √5 times the same theoretical base mono bitrate. Depending on the content. |
25th January 2016, 11:06 | #13825 | Link | ||||
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Thank you very much both of you for your time explaining that stuff
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I found but to be honest I didn't understood much. So to be on the "save side" (=no frequency limiting) one should use at least 448 kbps for 5.1 or 192 kbps for 2.0?!? For 4.0 do I just have to double the bitrate of 2.0 and for mono just halve it? Quote:
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25th January 2016, 11:31 | #13826 | Link |
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It just means: To have 5.x sound as good as 2.0 at e.g. 224 kbps, you don't need 5/2 times the bitrate (224*5/2=560, next closest available block bitrate would be 576 kbps), but only about √5/√2 times as much (224*√5/√2~354 kbps, next closest available block bitrate would be 384 kbps). Well, channel coupling isn't really that good (the more channels, the more an accurate phase angle is important to avoid flanging effects). A 384 kbps discrete 5.1 AC3 sounds not certainly as good as a comparable 224 kbps ProLogic 2.0 AC3, better to have 448 kbps. And 640 kbps is even ... "generous", in comparison.
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25th January 2016, 13:28 | #13827 | Link | |||
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Bit depth : 24 bits The real info contained in the DTS header field is: Source PCM Resolution : 24 That is, the bitdepth of the PCM source (WAV or equivalent) used to encode the DTS. When encode, the PCM samples in time domain are converted to float samples in frequency domain, and someones are discarded in lossy encodes (by frecuency cutoff or low values) to fit in the bitrate assigned. At this moment the bitdepth of the source have no meaning at all. Even some encoders put always 24 in this header field, no mather the source was 16 bits. Also eac3to, when extract DTS's, put always 24 in this field, thats force some decoders (than read this field) to output at least 24 bit. For all that we need forget the bitdepth info of lossy encodes. Only DTS have this info field, all other lossy encoders don't show that irrelevant info. Quote:
Like I say before some samples in frequency domain must be discarded to fit in the bitrate, if aren't by frequency must be by low values and lose precission. Quote:
Before than try AC3 VBR I recommend AAC or MP3 VBR for 2.0 For 5.1 you can try AAC or E-AC3 (maybe a player than support AC3 VBR support also E-AC3 much better)
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26th January 2016, 11:21 | #13828 | Link |
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Now I understand how it works. Thank you both very much for not letting me die stupid
One last quick question: Is there an easy way to strip the EX out of a "AC3 EX, 5.1 channels, 2:23:11, 640kbps, 48kHz" source? Currently I convert to WAV then back to AC3 and in that process (and only then) I get Reducing depth from 64 to 24 bits... (64 bit AC-3 file?! Interesting ) as well as Clipping detected, a 2nd pass will be necessary. |
26th January 2016, 16:02 | #13829 | Link | |||
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It say: "There are a Back Center channel mixed in surround channels" Like DTS-ES 5.1 matrixed. Quote:
You can use the parameter -full to output the 64 bits float PCM. Quote:
You can use the parameter -no2ndpass to avoid the second pass. Is, more or less, safe because peaks over 0dB can only be imperfections of lossy encoder/decoder. The original source can't have peaks over 0dB.
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30th January 2016, 14:25 | #13830 | Link |
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The German (3D) BD of Inside Out (seamless branching) has a EAC3 7.1 stream with 896kbps and which has as embedded core stream AC3 5.1 with 512kbps. I want to extract just that ac3 core as it is without any reencoding. but when I do with the cmd "eac3to 1) X: C:\stream.ac3" (which should be the ac3 equivalent to extracting a DTS core from a DTS-HD MA track) then eac3to says decoding with libav/ffmpeg and encoding AC3 <640kbps> with libAften, so the stream gets indeed reencoded. same with the same cmd line and "-core" in addtion.
edit: Ive found the .ec3 -core information, but it would be nice if this could be documented within eac3to as well. editē: why is it actually .ec3 -core here and not just .ac3 -core? that would make more sense compared to how it works with .dts
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31st January 2016, 17:24 | #13831 | Link |
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Sadly, the PC I had eac3to perfectly set-up on and my backup drive were both destroyed in a single catastrophic event.
I am trying to put Humpty Dumpty back together and it is tough to say the least. I recall that years ago I spent days trying to get the perfect install of eac3to and all of it's dependencies but it has been so long, I can't recall everything necessary to get back there. This thread is so long now that I am having trouble finding up-to-date info on this. Could someone point me to the most relevant installation instructions for the best possible install of this wonderful tool and all it's dependencies? I am looking for which versions of the dependencies to use and how to install only what I need to make it work in the highest quality possible and nothing else. Thanks in advance! |
31st January 2016, 18:33 | #13832 | Link |
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I think that what comes to decoding, currently you are fine with whatever is included in the eac3to package (apart from AAC decoding). Dcadec and libav will handle everything else except AAC, which apparently needs the Nero Directshow decoder.
What comes to encoding, I personally prefer to either decode to WAV and encode that in a separate encoder or pipe to the encoder directly.
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1st February 2016, 04:50 | #13835 | Link |
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My understanding is Nero Lite will work but I have installed Nero Lite 7.11.10.0 and I still get the message that Nero Audio Decoder is not installed. I guess I'll try something else.
Last edited by BigPines; 1st February 2016 at 05:06. |
1st February 2016, 08:13 | #13836 | Link |
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You could always pipe to QAAC. Something that still gets updates.
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1st February 2016, 19:44 | #13837 | Link |
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I finally think I have eac3to going as best I can. I decided to get it going with as many features as possible since my prior install was fully functional. Again, my goal was to make as light an install as possible with the most features and the best components.
Seems like it has been a while since someone posted the steps for a complete install so I am posting this in the hopes it will save someone else some time. A couple of notes: - I was unable to obtain Sonic Cinemaster Audio Decoder 4.3 so installation of that component is not covered below. - I was unable to figure out how to register only the required library(s) for Haali Media Splitter so below describes a full install. - I was unable to figure out how to register only the required library(s) for Nero so below describes a full install. I tried what is described in the following thread but I kept getting errors trying to regsvr32 the libraries so I gave up: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...97#post1396997 - I was unable to figure out how to register only the required library(s) for SurCode DTS Encoder so below describes a full install. If someone wants to help make this better and has information on how I can accomplish any of the shortfalls listed above, I am interested. Setting Up eac3to on Windows 7 x64: 1) Download the latest eac3to from here: http://madshi.net/eac3to.zip The link is also in the first post at the beginning of this thread. 2) Copy the eac3to directory to "C:\Program Files (x86)\" 3) Copy the necessary ArcSoft DLLs into the eac3to directory. If you need these dlls, checkactivate.dll comes from ArcSoft TotalMedia Theater 2.x. The rest of the files come from ArcSoft TotalMedia Theater 6.x. Install ArcSoft TotalMedia Theater 6.x and harvest the DLLs from here: C:\Program Files (x86)\ArcSoft\TotalMedia Theatre 6\MagCore.dll C:\Program Files (x86)\ArcSoft\TotalMedia Theatre 6\MagPCMac.dll C:\Program Files (x86)\ArcSoft\TotalMedia Theatre 6\MagUIEngine.dll C:\Program Files (x86)\ArcSoft\TotalMedia Theatre 6\MagUIInter.dll C:\Program Files (x86)\ArcSoft\TotalMedia Theatre 6\Codec\ASAudioHD.ax C:\Program Files (x86)\ArcSoft\TotalMedia Theatre 6\Codec\DtsDec.dll C:\Program Files (x86)\ArcSoft\TotalMedia Theatre 6\Codec\dtsdecoderdll.dll Place the DLLs in the eac3to directory. Uninstall ArcSoft once you have the DLLs. 4) Run the following in the Command Prompt AS ADMINISTRATOR: regsvr32.exe "C:\Program Files (x86)\eac3to\ASAudioHD.ax" 5) Copy neroAacEnc.exe into the eac3to directory. If you need to get this, download free from: http://www.nero.com/eng/company/abou...-aac-codec.php. After unzipping, harvest the .exe from: \NeroAACCodec-1.5.1.zip\win32\neroAacEnc.exe 6) Install Haali Media Splitter. It can be downloaded free from: https://haali.su/mkv/ 7) Install Surcode DVD Pro DTS Encoder v1.0.29 8) Install Nero 7.11.10.0 Micro/Lite Go to Start->All Programs->Nero->Setup->Nero ProductSetup. On the Left hand side click the Key icon which says License and enter the appropriate HD Audio serial numbers. |
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