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Old 21st August 2008, 11:30   #161  |  Link
rkalwaitis
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Thanks Sharktooth, You Da Man
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Old 28th August 2008, 10:01   #162  |  Link
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I guess its good to know that we are afforded enough rope to hang ourselves, that is awfully generous of akupenguin.
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Old 1st October 2008, 18:28   #163  |  Link
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Quick question for Mp4Guy,

For the M4G HRM V2 matrix, you suggest to:

Quote:
B predict mode should be set to none if your source is very grainy(and you wan't it to stay that way), or has many low contrast areas
Are you referring to the "direct=auto|none|temporal|spatial" option of x264?

Thanks.

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Old 2nd October 2008, 13:35   #164  |  Link
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Yes, "direct=auto|none|temporal|spatial" should be set to "none".
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Old 26th February 2009, 02:46   #165  |  Link
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Well im looking to get the most quality out of my x264 encodes, mainly anime, i have a lot of confidence in your ability mp4 guy

Who can recommend what matrix to use for dvd sourced anime encoding?

Or is there not much point in loading one of these up for anime encodes

Also if you use one of these matrixes do you turn b frame mode to none?

Sorry, trying to learn -_-
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Old 26th February 2009, 05:53   #166  |  Link
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There are very few situations where using a cqm on anime would be a good idea. Unless you have something very specific you are trying to achieve, you are safest with the flat matrix.
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Old 27th February 2009, 00:40   #167  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *.mp4 guy View Post
There are very few situations where using a cqm on anime would be a good idea. Unless you have something very specific you are trying to achieve, you are safest with the flat matrix.
ah well that solves my concerns thanks dude

too bad nothing like this can fix the bloody avatar rips (still trying -_- lol)

I thought using these would improve the quality of what x264 would save etc but guess i was wrong (or just not in this situation)
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:13   #168  |  Link
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The most reasons why people used custom matrices in the past are now obsolete, thanks to VAQ and Psy-RDO.

Furthermore VAQ and Psy-RDO don't work as expected with certain custom matrices...
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Old 27th February 2009, 02:59   #169  |  Link
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No, they work as expected, the results just aren't good. This is an oversimplification, but that is basically it.
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Old 27th February 2009, 03:02   #170  |  Link
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Quote:
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...the results just aren't good.
That's what I meant. Bad results isn't what I expect.
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Old 27th February 2009, 11:01   #171  |  Link
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For x264 with all the tuning done based on the flat matrix, it makes sense to now remove custom matrix support.
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Old 27th February 2009, 11:57   #172  |  Link
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It never makes sense to remove support for something when it costs you nothing to leave it intact. Besides, almost all of x264, including the psychovisual's work exactly as they should with cqm's. Ugly skipped mv's remain the only real "mistake" a matrix will induce x264 to make, the other unwanted behavior is mearly the result of transients being butchered by matrixes removing their highest energy components more aggressively, VAQ quantizing reqions with transients more aggressively, psy trellis also quantizing transients more aggressively, and psy-rd de-tuning rd decisions in order to make the picture more closely resemble the local complexity of the source by introducing "artifacts" (which is usually bad for transients).

Matrices and x264's psy enhancements aren't incompatible, or even bad to use together, you just have to be carefull to avoid overdoing the transient hatred. I should also probably update this thread and my deblocking FAQ to take into account that with VAQ 0:0 is usually the best deblocking setting, even with matrices.
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Old 27th February 2009, 17:21   #173  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *.mp4 guy View Post
Matrices and x264's psy enhancements aren't incompatible, or even bad to use together, you just have to be carefull to avoid overdoing the transient hatred. I should also probably update this thread and my deblocking FAQ to take into account that with VAQ 0:0 is usually the best deblocking setting, even with matrices.
No ...
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Old 27th February 2009, 17:40   #174  |  Link
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No ...
In my experience your disagreement, despite its vagueness would apear to indicate that I am correct.
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Old 27th February 2009, 19:59   #175  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *.mp4 guy View Post
In my experience your disagreement, despite its vagueness would apear to indicate that I am correct.
Simply because with CQM you can't never make generalisation. In fact IMO the best solution is not use CQM with psy optimisation simply because psy tools are optimised for flat16 matrix.


Quote:
I should also probably update this thread and my deblocking FAQ to take into account that with VAQ 0:0 is usually the best deblocking setting, even with matrices.
here for example it's completely false. Alpha and beta for inloop effect are highly dependant of Matrix. Absurd example is flat8 vs flat32 matrix. If 0,0 produce best result with flat16 then 0,0 will be certainely not best setting with agressive or soft matrix for global coef.


IMO Matrix are simply useless now with x264 simply because psy tool have same objective with more efficiency result. If you want really use CQM the better way now is really soft modification with all coef (with flat16 ref) like that for example:

INTRA4X4_LUMA =
12,12,14,16,
12,14,16,20,
14,16,20,25,
16,20,25,32

INTRA4X4_CHROMAU =
12,12,14,16,
12,14,16,20,
14,16,20,25,
16,20,25,32

INTRA4X4_CHROMAV =
12,12,14,16,
12,14,16,20,
14,16,20,25,
16,20,25,32

INTER4X4_LUMA =
14,14,15,16,
14,15,16,17,
15,16,17,18,
16,17,18,19

INTER4X4_CHROMAU =
14,14,15,16,
14,15,16,17,
15,16,17,18,
16,17,18,19

INTER4X4_CHROMAV =
14,14,15,16,
14,15,16,17,
15,16,17,18,
16,17,18,19

INTRA8X8_LUMA =
12,12,12,12,13,14,15,16,
12,12,12,13,14,15,16,17,
12,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,
12,13,14,15,16,18,20,22,
13,14,15,16,18,21,23,27,
14,15,16,18,21,24,28,37,
15,16,17,20,23,28,39,48,
16,17,19,22,27,37,48,68

INTER8X8_LUMA =
14,14,14,14,15,15,15,16,
14,14,14,14,15,15,16,17,
14,14,14,15,15,16,17,18,
14,14,15,15,16,17,18,19,
15,15,15,16,17,18,19,21,
15,15,16,17,18,20,22,26,
15,16,17,18,19,22,27,32,
16,17,18,19,21,26,32,44
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Last edited by Sagittaire; 28th February 2009 at 01:10.
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Old 28th February 2009, 03:18   #176  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittaire View Post
If you want really use CQM the better way now is really soft modification with all coef (with flat16 ref) like that for example:
Which is exactly as mp4 guy said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *.mp4 guy View Post
the other unwanted behavior is mearly the result of transients being butchered by matrixes removing their highest energy components more aggressively,
I've created some matrices that have increased metrics, but visually have never been as good as the flat matrix.

I always use psy optimisation and AQ though, even when testing matrices. I've never done a test against my matrices and DS's psy ops.

Because I'm fairly certain I know who would lose. And it doesn't make sense to create a matrix that requires features of the encoder to be disabled.
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Old 28th February 2009, 11:49   #177  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audionut View Post
Which is exactly as mp4 guy said.
well it's definitively not the case for all the mp4 guy matrix.


Quote:
I've created some matrices that have increased metrics, but visually have never been as good as the flat matrix.
CQM don't increase metric.


Quote:
I always use psy optimisation and AQ though, even when testing matrices. I've never done a test against my matrices and DS's psy ops.
Simply because CQM and x264 psy x264 tools don't make the same thing. CQM is just here to have a little better HVS macroblock look with more optimal gradiant/detail tradeoff. CQM can't help like AQ for better overall picture quality or can't help like SSD for better complexity preservation. Anyway you can use CQM with all the actual x264 psy tools but you must simply use really soft CQM matrix close to flat16 matrix.
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Last edited by Sagittaire; 28th February 2009 at 11:54.
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Old 4th March 2009, 20:37   #178  |  Link
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LRM and HRM still work the same as ever. Smooth works to an extent, MRM is mostly pointless, and High Detail causes too much ringing.
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