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18th October 2006, 23:34 | #22 | Link | |
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Thanks, just out of curiosity what type of cg is your source, is it like pixars stuff or is it pseudo-realistic cg? Last edited by *.mp4 guy; 19th October 2006 at 00:23. |
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19th October 2006, 00:32 | #23 | Link |
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Yes, I see that the quant matrix recommended in the jpeg standard is also nonmonotonic and asymmetric, and has a dc value much higher than the other low freqs (like your HRM intra).
Nonmonotonic: ok, I can believe that there's a difference between even and odd frequencies regarding their tendency for blocking artifacts. Asymmetric: the only ways this can happen, are if there's a difference in the amount of vertical vs horizontal texture in an average movie (this is true for motion, and some motion estimation algorithms exploit that), or if it's tuned for anamorphic. Of course, the best solution in either case would be to generate a matrix based on the content of the current movie, rather than depending on averages. If you can quantify the psy decisions that went into the creation of the average matrix. Last edited by akupenguin; 19th October 2006 at 00:36. |
19th October 2006, 00:53 | #24 | Link | |
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19th October 2006, 16:04 | #26 | Link | |
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Computer generated. |
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21st October 2006, 15:02 | #29 | Link |
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Yes, actualy its a new version with a new name, to (hopefully) keep things from getting confusing. The old version was a preliminary design I had been working on for a while, which is why it had a generic name. At this point the only thing thats likely to change are the chroma matrices, I think they may be a bit too agressive, but I have to do more testing.
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29th October 2006, 14:40 | #30 | Link |
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hi, Have you any suggestions for matrices to try for ~q18-20 for 720p anime? The particular source I'm playing with alternates between zero detail pure toon scenes and painted backgrounds with oodles of details. Overall complexity is low, and the final bitrate will probably end up around 1.2-1.4mbits (a 1.4gb target size), but 2mbits is also a possibility.
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29th October 2006, 15:22 | #31 | Link |
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At that bitrate you might be able to get away with a cqm on anime, but it is probably still not a good idea. Try adding "--deadzone-inter 6 --deadzone-intra 6" (without quotes) to the custom command line parameters section in megui instead of using a cqm, it will cause less detail to be dropped, and will probablt work better then a cqm on anime.
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30th October 2006, 03:11 | #37 | Link |
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Cqms aren't usefull for anime until there won't be any visible ringing artefacts, at which point a cqm that can preserve more detail and block less will probably help. However I don't have a good idea of where the trade off occurs since I don't encode anime much. Which is why I recommended a more conservative solution by just lowering the deadzone setting, which might work better for anime at high bitrates then one of my cqms anyway, as I said I have not done much testing on the subject.
In theory it should be possible to make a matrix that looks better on anime then the flat matrix at higher bitrates, I beleive Soulhuter made one for Xvid a while ago, but its not something I've given much thought to. |
30th October 2006, 11:32 | #38 | Link |
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First of all thanks for the matrices and your time spent on them, well done. Second, can you suggest any of your matrices for HD Encoding at 720p 4-5Mbit. I read somewhere here that at that high resolution and bitrate, it doesn't really matter which one to use. And i can simply use flat matrix, but please clarify if i'm wrong. Thanks
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30th October 2006, 18:59 | #40 | Link |
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The same general rules apply to HD as SD, the biggest difference comes from the viewing conditions, many displays can easily show the flaws in SD content, but may have trouble showing the same problems in HD content becuase of the increased resolution, which can lead people to falsely assume that HD can be overcompressed without problems. If you wan't the best results you have to find settings that look good to you on sd content, then use the same Q values and settings on hd content, this will ensure that you don't end up throwing away quality that you might miss later when higher resolution display are more readily available.
At your bitrate MRM should give you transparent results, though without knowing more about your source its really hard to say. |
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