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5th February 2017, 12:22 | #42261 | Link | |||
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I switched to FineDehalo (with aviSynth) to remove ringing and dark halos and the result is amazing with one of these settings (I use low) : FineDehalo(thmi=128, thlimi=50, thlima=50, contra=1.0) # low FineDehalo(thmi=128, thlimi=50, thlima=100, contra=1.0) # medium FineDehalo(thmi=128, thlimi=100, thlima=100, contra=1.0) # high Quote:
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As NGU should be used for high quality sources, strict is not good because it removes too many details. I don't need sharpeners anymore with NGU like it is in v0.91.1, which is a very good thing, because they always add some kind of artifacts as a counterpart. I hope that the next official build will allow : - to disable automatic image quadrupling, but still be able to use 2x supersampling - more chroma doubling algorithms (to replace Bicubic60 AR by Lanczos3 AR) - to choose the scaling factor at which image doubling is enabled, without having to set profiles - to use NGU < veryHigh with relaxed AR setting instead of strict - some tweaks for NGU (sharpen, artifact removal control, etc) - to test all combinations without limitations and without having to switch versions to compare quality and performance (an expert mode ?) It seems like you are adapting NGU to be used with all kind of source material, to get kid of all the other doublers. I don't know if it is a good thing or not... but "NGU pixart" looks promising ! Last edited by Neo-XP; 5th February 2017 at 12:41. |
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5th February 2017, 12:39 | #42262 | Link | |
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I'm infected with poor sources. |
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5th February 2017, 12:53 | #42263 | Link | |
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5th February 2017, 13:23 | #42264 | Link | |
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Can you post a screenshot of the original size anime, so I can compare for myself? How does NGU pixart medium compare to NNEDI3-16 with this image? |
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5th February 2017, 14:35 | #42265 | Link | ||||
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on real world images the difference is really small on the images i have tested so far. speed is hard to judge on a modern GPU that is change the clock all the time. Quote:
but i never was a friend of nnedi3 anyway. Quote:
the lines are generally way to thick on top of it. super XBR is bad on the clown too. it is simply not perfect in removing aliasing. |
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5th February 2017, 14:51 | #42266 | Link | |
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I find it hard to decide how thin an upscaled line should really be when upscaling pixel art. We don't have a groundtruth to compare to in this case, so it's a matter of "interpretation" or taste. I've not really designed NGU pixart to create thin lines, I've tried to create aliased images which have a high-res groundtruth (by using box filter downscaling), and then built NGU pixart by trying to upscale the aliased downscaled images in such a way that they get as near to the original hi-res image as possible. The thin lines are a result of this approach. I think NNEDI3 tries to do the same, but just doesn't reach the same quality level at the small 8x4 kernel size, which is why the NNEDI3 lines are sometimes a bit thicker than those produced by NGU pixart. |
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5th February 2017, 15:05 | #42267 | Link |
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I like the NGU-pixart. I think if you took all aspects of the picture and rated them, NGU-pixart would come out on top even if it may not be the winner for certain aspects.
There is probably a slight sharpness reduction .If you could use the right sharpener after NGU-pixart, and before any other process including downscale, I think this could be overcome. There is the option of adaptive sharpen etc, but that happens after everything else (I believe), and not part of the resize chain. What would it look like if it were done as part of the chain, maybe employing some of the principles used in Didee's SeeSaw avisynth script? |
5th February 2017, 15:20 | #42268 | Link |
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pixelart image are perfect images. so we can do some stuff we can't do with other images.
so the NN x2 upscald line thickness is a good indictor for a "neutral" line thickness. with NGU pixart the upscaled image has still a line thickness of 1 pixel and very small boarder. the lines on the background hills are to thin. NGU pixart is even changing the boarder size from time to time.. BTW. NGU veryhigh is pretty much perfect 2 pixel lines. ignoring all the other problems. edit: it produces some ugly chroma bleeding in the clouds and other white parts: https://picload.org/image/rocllwow/mariochromaissue.png i guess it comes from the half pixel shift nnedi3 has this problem too but way less. Last edited by huhn; 5th February 2017 at 15:41. |
5th February 2017, 16:21 | #42269 | Link | |
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5th February 2017, 16:25 | #42270 | Link | |
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http://imgur.com/a/Z7oYm Note that I only run NGU since it was implemented, so I had to adjust the profile temporarily to run NNEDI3 instead. Also, I only use drivers downloaded from the geforce website. And I uninstall the previous one with DDU. As you can see from the screenshot, it all looks fine. Those frame drops/repeats was just from me pausing and unpausing. I never got around to find out whether this spike of frame drops would have happened by using NNEDI3 instead. Are you hinting that it is NGU that could be the cultprit?
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5th February 2017, 16:33 | #42271 | Link |
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wasn't for you and i don't quote a post if it is directly over mine.
looks like it was removed/delete. but it was a problem with GPU driver and not working nnedi3. looks like the driver installed by windows 10 was the issue. if i notice this i sometimes add/edit a "RIP context" or something like that. |
5th February 2017, 17:11 | #42272 | Link |
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huhn,
Well for what it's worth, I just watched an episode now with NNEDI3 instead of NGU and guess what - no frame drop spikes...
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5th February 2017, 17:24 | #42273 | Link |
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NEDDI 3 is generally less costly especially if you have a powerful CPU/GPU combination.
What you see are drops based on the fact that the GPU Shader and Driver have problems to hold the Performance at a given resolution the overhead eats everything and NGU is thirsty for Shaders it eats them alive and depending on the overall System stability state you could run into all kind of performance mulithread issues on Windoze resulting in frames get droped and then the big buffers wont help either anymore.
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 5th February 2017 at 17:38. |
5th February 2017, 18:29 | #42274 | Link |
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FYI, I'm running Windows 10 64 bit with a Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 and up-scaling everything to 3840x2160p59.
Trying out the new "pixel art" NGU. I ran through several clips of 480p animated material of varying quality, starting with my current settings of chroma NNEDI3-32 and Luma doubling NNED13-64 neurons; quadrupling 32 neurons. I then compared the same 480p clips with NGU pixel art with NGU set to "'very high" for both chroma and luma. So far, it works extremely well and could replace NNEDI3 in my set up for SD content. It does provide a "smooth" looking picture for SD and not overly sharp as the original NGU for SD content. Lines look good too, aliasing is kept in check, at least to my eyes. Also, I averaged 3-4 millisecond less rendering times with the pixel art NGU than with NNEDI3. So far, a very nice improvement for standard def up-scaling in this test build, Madshi. Keep up the great work! |
5th February 2017, 18:50 | #42275 | Link |
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@madshi
Thank you for answering all our questions! I'm still curious about this; I am watching FHD videos, especially anime on a 2560 x 1440 display. Should I be using NNEDI or XBR or NGU for best results? Also, regarding the new NGU pixart, I will try to give you a subjective order of how I prefer the images from the samples selected earlier: Jinc < Waifu2x < NGU Very High <NNEDI 256< NNEDI 16 < NGU Pixart Very High< NGU Pixart Low = NGU Pixart Med < Super XBR I will try to generate a series of samples by myself and maybe the results will be different, but this is the preliminary thoughts about the samples provided. for the sample provided, when zoomed in at a 300% factor. When viewed at 100% of it's zoom, the order changes radically: Jinc < SuperXBR < NNEDI 16 < NNEDI 256 < NGU Very High < Waifu2x <NGU Pixart Very High < NGU Pixart Med < NGU Pixart Low I hope that it helps you out - this is just my subjective opinion on the samples given though, sorry if it digresses from anyone else's. returning to my question, I understand that watching 1920 x 1080 materials on an 2560 x 1440 display is not the best idea, but which algo would be best for anime?
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5th February 2017, 18:50 | #42276 | Link | |
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5th February 2017, 18:59 | #42277 | Link | |||||
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If you look at the NNEDI3-256 image, the lines are not exactly 2 pixels, either. Some of them are sharper/thinner than that, too. But you already said you never liked NNEDI3, either. Maybe that's why? When talking about "hand drawn" pix art like Mario or other games, where each pixel was carefully set by an artist, I suppose another different algorithm could be designed which does make some assumptions like a 1 pixel wide line should double to a 2 pixel wide line. But if you think about aliased Anime videos, there could be many different reasons for why they could be aliased. One good reason is that at some point someone might have simply dropped every other line or colum (aka nearest neighbor downscaling). When doing that, a 1 pixel wide line in the low-res image could either be a 1-pixel wide line in the high-res image, or a 2-pixel wide line, or something in between. Quote:
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So would you say image quality is the same as before with 3-4 milliseconds saved? Or is image quality slightly better or worse than before? Can you see a difference in quality between NGU pixart Very High and NGU pixart Medium? Quote:
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5th February 2017, 19:28 | #42278 | Link | ||
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2) NGU pixart-very high is faster than NNEDI3-128, but a little slower than NNEDI3-64 (Graphics card is GTX 1060 6GB) 3)IMO, yes, I think NGU pixart is good enough to replace NNEDI3. 4)I don't use super-xbr at all so I have no comment. |
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5th February 2017, 19:45 | #42280 | Link | ||
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Can you comment on how you would rate NGU pixart "low" and "medium" quality compared to NNEDI3? |
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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