potentially dangerous file in AutoGK instalation pack

[Axed]

What i think this boils down to is a mans time. Either yours, or Len0x's. If you want to save your own time, and use an automated program like AutoGK, but you have to pay for the time that Len0x has put into the program in one way or another.

If you want to use your own time, learn to use Gordian Knot and thank the community at large who have developed that. Unlike AutoGK, Gordian Knot has had many people develop it, most recently that lovely man 'tHe gLouCh' who has helped to iron out alot of the bugs with Len0x.

My personal stance on the inclusion to AutoGK is that im happy to see it and i will continue to recommend it to friends. But, i also always try to talk friends into doing it the old GK way because in my opinion, you can get better results. It will take your own time tho, and most people are not willing to give that up.

[Carraway]

Originally posted by Axed
What i think this boils down to is a mans time. Either yours, or Len0x's. If you want to save your own time, and use an automated program like AutoGK, but you have to pay for the time that Len0x has put into the program in one way or another.

This is a fair point. I certainly understand the rationale behind including the adware, and truthfully, once len0x removes the "surreptitious" aspect of it I'll have no real ethical argument against it. However, by arguing against it, my hope is that perhaps len0x will reconsider the commercial aspect of it entirely, or find a better way to make money off of the program.

(I actually have a personal stake in all of this: I constantly champion this program among my friends who rip DVD's and now that it has adware bundled with it, it makes it feel like I'm pushing some kind of virus or trojan on them -- like I'm a culprit in screwing with their computers, you know?).

Originally posted by Axed
My personal stance on the inclusion to AutoGK is that im happy to see it...

"My personal stance on the inclusion..." of the adware? You're happy? I don't understand what you mean.

Originally posted by Axed
But, i also always try to talk friends into doing it the old GK way because in my opinion, you can get better results. It will take your own time tho, and most people are not willing to give that up.

The problem here is that a lot of people don't want to take the time to learn GK. With AutoGK it's just point and click, but most people don't know/care what a D2V file is, or how to write an AVS script etc etc. Personally I'm definitely considering switching back to GK (I switched to AutoGK because, like you said, it saved me time). But since I have nothing but time, the whole adware development may be the impetus for me to simply switch back to regular GK.

[chilled]

I just dont get why you/he implemented this adware if there was the milestone/paypal thing that was working well (imho).
While reading the posts I have been thinking about the fact: a software for newbies installing adware on their quite unsecured computers (instead of doing it on a program -GK, yes I know its GPLed-which is for advanced users who know how to be protected) and I just dont find it fair. Not for the fact of including adware (a bit too, indeed) but on the fact of the intended users. And I just remembered an intelligent thought of Bill Gate$, about his own computer being more secured on the internet when other peoples computers were more protected... so when someone who knows nothing about computers gets his own full of viruses, etc it does increase risks for all the others.
Well, Im not very worried about this indeed, but I really have not appreciated the way it has been introduced (obviously everyone will prefer a stable version which tells you "hey, approve this separate license", than this beta one.
I also agree with the one who asks for the 1.60 stable to be "eternally" available, especially for the "this one has the important features so far" thing. I think at the moment DTS and other beta improvements so far (even future AVI input or MKV/OGM output) are not interesting enough by themselves (I totally agree Len0x argument that autogk has reached his objective) to justify the possible non-availability of 1.60.

[Axed]

Good point Carraway. I can see how you would feel a bit reponsible especially if your friends talked about Dr.DivX and you said theres a better freeware (with no junk!) program, because i said that to my friends. But, as long as the spyware/adware/whatever isnt annoying and is just, say, a small ad banner that you see while your encoding in AutoGK i dont think its that bad.

With regards to my statement about "My personal stance on the inclusion to AutoGK is that im happy to see it..." what i ment was i think it is a good inclusion to help with the development if it inspires len0x to develop the program more and not stop. Sorry for not being very clear on that point.

To be truthful, im really not sure how to feel on this anymore after thinking about it. I'll still endorce the program to my friends as long as it doesnt become complete crapware that has hundreds of banners that just mysteriosly popup. Like i said, id prefer to see a banner that people can see while encoding if there has to be banners in AutoGK.

edit: added a line to first paragraph

[Taurus]

Originally posted by buk
Taurus think, that silent instalation of advertising....is ok

You got me totally wrong.
For a long time now I'm into internet security. I can't remember how many machines I have desinfected and stealthed again crapware.
But this have to be weightend differently.
I personally think that len0x has made a shot in the dark to see how the community is reacting.
As this is just beta software, not intended for everyday users, he's got the right to experiment whith some changes, even they are controvers to likings or dislikings of the beta users.
That's why it is called beta .

To make it clear:
If there is adware in next stable versions of AutoGk, it must be clearly pointed out at install progress and at top of the disclaimer.
If not, most people nowadays might find it suspicious.
Even some notes of what it does (and what not)will be welcomed.

But, I agree, if a (better)working donation system could be implanted, this would be the right choice and we could stop this awfull discussion.

A Merry Christmas to all of you

Cheers

Taurus

[Carraway]

Hey guys, just a bit more info on the DAE adware that AutoGK installs. I've been using a program called Privoxy for a couple of days just to test it out, and one of its features is that it essentially logs all 'net traffic on my computer, so I thought I'd use it to see just what the DAE softare tracks or receives. As far as I can tell, RESPONSETARGET gets to see virtually everywhere you go online.

Example: I type in www.doom9.org in IE, Privoxy logs this activity:

Dec 24 11:52:20 Privoxy(01304) Request: dae.responsetarget.com/sho
wit.php?u=97883&p=1243&url=http://www.doom9.org/
Dec 24 11:52:28 Privoxy(06644) Request: www.doom9.org/
Dec 24 11:52:29 Privoxy(07696) Request: www.doom9.org/framekill.js
Dec 24 11:52:30 Privoxy(06080) Request: www.doom9.org/frameset.js
Dec 24 11:52:31 Privoxy(04112) Request: www.doom9.org/top.html
[...etc...]

Apparently I'm U=97883 or something. Anyway, I go to Google:

Dec 24 11:54:39 Privoxy(02884) Request: dae.responsetarget.com/sh
owit.php?u=97883&p=1243&url=http://google.com/
Dec 24 11:54:40 Privoxy(02404) Request: www.google.com/

I click on Google Groups!

Dec 24 11:56:31 Privoxy(02796) Request: groups-beta.google.com/grphp?hl=en&tab=wg&q=
Dec 24 11:56:31 Privoxy(05660) Request: dae.responsetarget.com/showit.php?u=97883&p=1
243&url=http://groups-beta.google.com/grphp?hl=en&tab=wg&q=
Dec 24 11:56:34 Privoxy(05296) Request: groups-beta.google.com/img/watched_y.gif
[...it goes on...]

And so on. So after hours of web browsing, I can only assume that RESPONSETARGET has a whole history of U=97883's web browsing. I don't know what they do with this information -- whether they are honorable and genuinely only use it for targeted ads and then promptly purge it, or if they harvest the info and sell it, etc etc. But they're an adware company so they're not at the peak of business ethics to begin with, so I suspect it's something closer to the latter.

Edited for better formatting

[Wolfman]

Wouldnt the best adware be from one of the Dvd rental companies

Donations have problems too.

How about time limited Adware ? maybe 1 month or some such. Then self purge.

[buk]

To Taurus

If you wrote about beta versions and experimenting with new features, why the new feature of silent DAE instalation is not mentioned in the list of new features, which is every time presented on www.autogk.net with the notice obout a new version. Other new features are mentioned there. What a mystery? Why the betas are downloadable by all people and not only by eg. registered beta testers? Another mystery? I think it ´s too mysteries in one case.



To Carraway´s post i would like to add, that nobody really don´t need that anybody else knows about pages he visited on the web. Collecting these information about behaviour on the web is really no ADWARE feature as somebody thinks, but it is pure SPYWARE feature. It just spies and sends data to nontrustworthy third-party. It´s just a game with words, when somebody says that DAE is adware, but DAE is real and for every infected user very dangerous spyware. Each must be aware of it, because the information cellected by DAE could be very easy misused against users.

I personally think, that people who try to collect users personallities, even if they have a very good offer (AutoGK), are a bad guys and the offer must be refused. And what more, it is really funy that this bad guys try to convince other people that they are good guys, that they are giving other people something without can´t live any user. Fortunatelly, earlier or later will come a new really good guy, who will not infecting users computers.

AutoGK is not the only one, although it is very, very good. It´s just about user´s choice to use program with spyware, or to use less comfortable program or set of programs without spyware. It is just about little learning new methods.

That´s my opinion.

Nice Holiday

Buk

[richarddd]

If lenOx wants to include DAE in AutoGK, he should clearly disclose it.

[tdwest]

If lenox needs to add a little piece of spy ware so be it.
This is the software that got me into video encoding which is a good thing and bad thing This is my way of saying thanks alot for a great FREE program!!!

[len0x]

There is nothing in this thread that I wasn't prepare to hear. If you think that I consider this as greatest idea ever - you're mistaken. I had to make a piece with myself first... But having said that my main motive for doing this was that considerable number of ppl would feel like Axed said, i.e. "it is a good inclusion to help with the development if it inspires len0x to develop the program more and not stop". I have probably more than 100,000 users and even if I can continue to make happy just 10% of those - its still worth it.

Regarding milestones - its not quite working as expected (although it may look like it). Since M2 was announced only 35-40% of donations were actually for M2 - the rest was just normal donations and if it wasn't for holiday period M2 target would not be reached for another 2-3 months (and that is for the most wanted feature in AutoGK). Basically it will slow the development a lot, so we're back to the idea - if considerable number of ppl are still willing to see rapid development of AutoGK, then why not? (I have nothing to loose really - in the worst case I'll just stop developing it if I see that adware will make ppl abandon AutoGK completely. But I don't believe in that yet). If I make a poll on my website asking why are you using AutoGK with choices like "its free", "its the best", "it doesn't contain adware/spyware", the latter choice would not be the most popular one I bet. It all comes down to the value of AutoGK for each individual user.

P.S. About web serfing statistics - everyone's doing it. Google is logging all the keywords you search for along with your IP address. Why? Because every ad provider has to price keywords (the more popular the keyword, the higher the price), so they keep those stats along with geographical distribution. No one is really interested to see individual web surfing history (it would take huge amount space and not worth keeping, so its aggregated). DAE is doing the same by extracting keywords from URLs.

[CeeJay.dk]

I think its fine that Lenox is trying to make more money off AutoGK.
But when installing spy/adware you should have the option of choosing in the installer whether or not to install it.
This way you clearly notice that it is being installed, and you can always choose not to install it.

Another acceptable way of earning a bit of revenue would be to include ads in the installer itself , and perhaps some small unobtrusive ones in the program.

[DAvenger]

Originally posted by len0x
P.S. About web serfing statistics - everyone's doing it. Google is logging all the keywords you search for along with your IP address. Why? Because every ad provider has to price keywords (the more popular the keyword, the higher the price), so they keep those stats along with geographical distribution. No one is really interested to see individual web surfing history (it would take huge amount space and not worth keeping, so its aggregated). DAE is doing the same by extracting keywords from URLs.

This is so true. I wonder why so many people think that someone is keeping a whole room of files on their surfing habits. This is online advertising, you have to know at least something about the audience - otherwise you can go and burn the money and achieve the same effect.

You have to stop being commies.

[niamh]

You go len0x

to the people who think the IRA or something manufactured that dll to blow the world and the neighbouring planets, and that by the time you have removed it (2 and a half minute, if you´re really dumb), you will still die of a horrible death anyway : learn to rip.

PS: Beware of killing the goose with the golden eggs, if I were you I´d swallow the medicine


(2nd PS : if everybody was using firefox as minimum common sense would have it, this discussion would be void in the first place)

[ydobon]

Hi, all.

First and as always, Len0x wrote AutoGK so he can do whatever he wants with it. If I don't like spyware, I'm free to not use it.

Problem is: AutoGK wasn't spyware. When I installed v1.84b, and after dozens of versions installed, I didn't read the 5400-word license anymore because I (wrongly) assumed that any significant change would be clearly stated. For example in the changelog.

But no. And the top of AutoGK license still says: "Freeware License Agreement". So congratulations, you got me. And you probably got also 99.9% of your non-technical target audience.

Ok. No biggie. I don't use IE and I uninstalled DAE. And if one day it can't be uninstalled and I don't want it in my computer, I'll look for an alternative. But from now on, AutoGK is on the list of programs that do things without telling me. And Len0x is on the list of programmers that (try to) hide what his program does to his users' computers.

So yes, niamh, I'll swallow the medicine, but don't expect me to be happy about it. And I hope the people who donated don't feel cheated (I think I would). BTW, is the milestone idea gonna be continued after M2?

Oh, and niamh, if "everybody was using firefox as minimum common sense would have it," I'm sure the people at RESPONSETARGET would made their nice piece of software firefox-friendly.

[Corence]

I agree with lenOx's pursuit of finding income for his time spent developing this wonderful program. The inclusion of this adware program is a simple solution.

However, I agree that it should be stated in the changelog or on the website that there is a new adware feature. It wouldn't change my mind about the quality of this product. I would certainly prefer dealing with an easily removed adware component compared to paying for it with cash up front, such as inferior products like Dr. DivX!

Perhaps it would be best to include it only on the website, so that those who take the time to visit the autogk site can see it, but those who are just ripping off software from torrent sites (and I have seen autogk on a few) are left with this little adware surprise. For those of us who follow the development in the forums and download the software from lenOx, I feel that we should be notified somehow prior to installation that this is taking place.

Keep up the good work, lenOx! Just let us know when you're making such changes, please.

[Sharktooth]

Uhm, i'm sorry but as long as i unistall DAE and AutoGK still works (i used it 3 times in total and only for testing) then i will do it.
Since i don't consider myself a fulltime AutoGK user (i prefer manual encoding and dont even use regular GK...) i will continue to uninstall DAE.
When i will need AutoGK seriously, i'll prefer making one or more donations but i dont want software i didnt ask for on my computer.

OT:

Originally posted by niamh
E pericoloso sporghersi.

It's "E' pericoloso sporgersi." ...

[niamh]

So yes, niamh, I'll swallow the medicine, but don't expect be to be happy about it.

I never implied you should be.

len0x has previously stated his reasons for not advertising the dll in this particular beta build. I think most of you have managed by now to establish(at length) he is a dirty malicious sneaky scoundrel
Now, my point is, can we get on with it ?

[OT]@ Sharktooth: thanks a bunch for the correction, it has indeed been a while since I´ve been in a french train (some private jokes are bad enough, but with errors get to be worse indeed )

[BigDid]

Originally posted by niamh

[OT]@ Sharktooth: thanks a bunch for the correction, it has indeed been a while since I´ve been in a french train (some private jokes are bad enough, but with errors get to be worse indeed )

Happy new year to all multilingual train users

Hummm, in french I believe it is something like "Ne pas se pencher à la fenêtre..." unless only french trains have these multilingual inscriptions?
To french readers, sorry it's also beeen a while since I've been in a train (french or other).

Did

[Sharktooth]

Ok, sorry for the offtopic again...
The niamh signature is in Italian and can be found on any cross country train (for example Eurostars).

Back in topic...
I know what len0x said but i dont like to have software i didnt asked to install. If i want a mpeg4 conversion tool i dont want a spyware+mpeg4 conversion tool, expecially if that spyware is an "always running" application, and it's there even when i dont use the conversion tool.
Most of you will say "then dont use it or pay $$$". My answare is: i prefer paying some $$$ and get that software without spyware.