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Old 4th May 2002, 16:44   #41  |  Link
Kb_cruncher
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well,i have burned a ogm file without success.
first i registered the filter successfully,then created the bin file successfully,burned with cdrwin(default settings)successfully.
Windows xp could not read the cd :-(

file is divx5 not xvid.is this my problem?
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Old 4th May 2002, 17:46   #42  |  Link
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@Gawen: I think I prefer the /BIN method because in any case you have to mount the CD, and HD images are harder to create. It would be great if it would fit in a 1.44 MB image because this way everybody can do their tests much more easily. This comment about Linux being able to mount XCD tracks (I assume you can read the M2F2 tracks?) is pretty interesting. It would help a lot if you can confirm this and tell how Linux access its contents (ie. in RAW mode like Windows or just the user data).

@Kb_cruncher: no the video CODEC has nothing to do with your problems. This can be either a burning issue or a CD reading issue. I'd bet the former, i.e. the CD has not been burned correctly. This is not your fault but mostly your burner/software combination. You could test this by burning a VideoCD with CDR-WIN, it will probably fail.

I've received reports from people having such problems, both CDR-WIN and Nero being not able to burn Mode2 images with crertain burners. I'd suggest the following: use a recent Nero version (Nero 5.5.5.2 and previous versions are known to have troubles with CUE/BIN images) and/or try the single track burning method:

1. load Nero
2. select File/Burn Image
3. load the BIN file (NOT CUE!)
4. select Mode 2
5. burn!

This has been reported to work even on problematic burners, where no other method have been successful.

BTW I will add NRG (Nero) image output support in a future version, hope this will contribute to eliminate potential Nero issues.
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Old 4th May 2002, 17:57   #43  |  Link
spyder
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@DeXT- I will let you all know once it is complete. I have basic functionality working but I'm filling in all the other InputStream methods to work properly for skipping bytes and so forth. I am writing this to work with older JDKs not using the new JDK 1.4 extensions so it should work with most apps, old and new. After I have it complete I will post it on my site and then see about the XCD CVS. I will also include a modified MP3 player written in Java to play from CDXA.

Also, I use Nero v5.5.7.2 ando I have no problem burning a CUE/BIN combination. I just pick File->Burn image.. and select the CUE file.

Last edited by spyder; 4th May 2002 at 18:05.
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Old 4th May 2002, 18:19   #44  |  Link
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@Gawen- Does this Linux media player you have need an X windowing system or does it work without it? If it requires X that will tak a cnsiderable amount of space.
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Old 4th May 2002, 18:26   #45  |  Link
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he already wrote that he uses the framebuffer device...
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Old 4th May 2002, 18:37   #46  |  Link
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@DeXT
Quote:
@Gawen: I think I prefer the /BIN method because in any case you have to mount the CD, and HD images are harder to create. It would be great if it would fit in a 1.44 MB image because this way everybody can do their tests much more easily. This comment about Linux being able to mount XCD tracks (I assume you can read the M2F2 tracks?) is pretty interesting. It would help a lot if you can confirm this and tell how Linux access its contents (ie. in RAW mode like Windows or just the user data).
I am actually evaluating. 3 choices:

- Patching vcdfs to kernel 2.4.18
- Using cdfs, a somehow enhanced alternative to vcdfs
- patching mplayers vcd code to accept XCD

Cdfs means building a kernel module or compile a static kernel, patches ... you know i am not a c crack. My actual strategy is mount the cd with cdfs, mount the XCD track to a loop device (thats the way cdfs works), read the RIFF header and generate a link to the data file named from RIFF header content (later multiple links to multiple files plus a playlist for mplayer), then start mplayer play that link. I am NOT ready with it yet.

2.88 floppy format is no problem, it only means you will get a 2.88 linux boot floppy image file from me. It does not need to be written to a real floppy drive, its the image "El Torito" bootloader uses as a virtual floppy drive to boot the cd after having read it from a cd track. But it needs to be a value bioses can be spoofed with, so max is 2.88 MB. I hope it will be possible to use mkisofs for win32 to create a cd with the linux autoboot files on windows maschines.

Give me a day or two more for a prototype.
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Old 4th May 2002, 19:00   #47  |  Link
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@spyder

Ever heard of embedded linux for handhelds like the new Sharp?

Koepi is right. I could even build a complete distro for it, but that would take too much time to boot and would take a lot of files and storage. Too complicated. I decided to use the one and only graphics card independend device, the VESA interface, supported by the linux VESA framebuffer device. It uses fixed grafics card bios addresses that are standartized and actual cards are fast enough for realtime video display. For more info read the FAQs and forum posts on http://www.mplayerhq.hu . The whole thing will consist of 4 files for the windows user: A linux boot image, the precompiled player binary, mkisofs.exe and a batch to add the stuff to an existing XCD. I am evaluating on a 100 MHz FSB i810 board with VIA Ezra 650 MHz CPU, so hardware requirements should be modest enough. Whish me luck, i have a running kernel, a working player and now i am in the stage of implementing the framework around that. Space consumtion will be < 10 MB (actually 2.88 MB for the boot image and 5.5 MB for the player). And in my opinion it should only be an allowed option for a XCD, no must. Imagine simply booting from a CD and watching a film, sharing it with others and beeing shure, they can watch it to, they will never again come back to you and say "But my player said he doesnt understand it!". No need to explain ogg, mp4, mov, avi, divx, xvid, mpeg-4, mp4v3 ...

Real good things should be simple. I try to keep this thing simple.

Last edited by Gawen; 4th May 2002 at 19:11.
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Old 4th May 2002, 19:15   #48  |  Link
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gawen: 2 things:
1. the user must be certain the mplayer version and codecs support his/her container/codecs. (we should think of a way he can know an answer for sure)

2. take into account the fact that after the boot sequence, the player shouldn't acces the disc at all: the playback could skip or jitter, and the user may insert a new cd for a clip/content spread over more than 1 cd.

cheers
avi.
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Old 4th May 2002, 19:29   #49  |  Link
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New mode2cdmaker release

I decided to post the current mode2cdmaker build (named 1.2pre, "preview") because I'm going to add Form1 support and this will take a good amount of work, since somewhat profound changes are needed for this (currently the ISO track structure is fixed).

No exciting new features, just the stuff I talked about some days ago, i.e. the ability to put wour own volume name, M2F2 file extension and output image name. I did it mostly to get rid of all the remaining MCF-CD stuff. BTW the command line stuff is courtesy of Nic (sorry int 21h I finally used his stuff but anyways I've put you in the credits since you deserve it too).

BTW the default volume name is now "MODE2CD", I know it's a bit ugly but avih preferred not to put "XCD" yet.

The new syntax is as follows:

mode2cdmaker [-m] movie1.avi [-o image -v MODE2CD -e DAT]

-v volume name
-o output image base name (*.bin, *.toc, *.cue)
-m add movie (form 2) files (default)
-e default extension for form2 files

I finally chose to make the "-m" option the default one so you can continue using the old syntax (i.e. no options at all).

I will work on the Form1 stuff now and investigate the potential problems with 90/99 min stuff.

BTW I'm putting it here because my server is down (again), damn I need a new server. Hope you find it useful.
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Old 4th May 2002, 19:55   #50  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by avih
gawen: 2 things:
1. the user must be certain the mplayer version and codecs support his/her container/codecs. (we should think of a way he can know an answer for sure)

2. take into account the fact that after the boot sequence, the player shouldn't acces the disc at all: the playback could skip or jitter, and the user may insert a new cd for a clip/content spread over more than 1 cd.
Hi Avi,

1.is not a problem, mplayer generates a codec list at compile time for its codecs.conf.

2. i have that already in mind an will care about after completing a 1 CD prototype. I dont think it will cost to much work, cause the player with its virtual floppy device is still in memory after the first cds end, so all there ist to do is prompting for shutdown or continuing and if cont. unmounting the cd , prompting for the next one, deleting the old links, mounting the new cd, creating new links and start the player again. And so on. This is a job that can be done with a shell script. No need to start a IDE for it. Wait a little for the first prototype. I will post a loud hurray message when the first film is running on the tv out of the Radeon in my main workstation. Later on it will maybe also support IR remote control support, but i will have to get my soldering iron hot for that.

Edit: P.S.: XviD build 31.03. works smoothly and for compatibility testing i actually use the DX5 xXx trailer avi from dxn/sony. Actual enough? Or is there a better XviD build on the same stability and speed level i should test?

Edit2: "the player shouldn't acces the disc at all" sounds a little like virgin birth, doesnt it? I tought of doing something like "xcdcat input.avi | mplayer -" if i get trouble with the first RIFF header, xcdcat would cut it and pipe the "rest" of the file to the player. A pipe gives you 4 MB buffer automatically. Should be enough if you dont try using it jogging with your notebook in heavy area. And keep in mind: Its Linux! (No $ sign in it, pure processing power.)

Last edited by Gawen; 4th May 2002 at 20:30.
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Old 4th May 2002, 23:11   #51  |  Link
avih
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gawen:

concerning the licenses again.

1. as we all agreed, we're switching the xcd.sf.net account to BSD license (instead of GPL).

2. i did send a support request to sourceforge team already about this issue, but let me post my thoughts here as well:

de_xt tool is based on vcdtools which is GPL, i guess your linux kernel is either GPL or some kind of Debian license. mplayer is GPL mostly (some parts are not GPL).

since we want to include all the tools under a single 'roof' (do we?) how do we license different 'sunprojects' under different licenses? also, the spesification themselves are not code, and i think BSD/GPL/etc doesn't reference them. any idea about what should we do about the specs themselves then?

avi

ps.
'the player shouldn't access the cd' is partially correct. the correct one is NOTHING should access the CD (including the kernel or other applications/scripts/etc).

pps
i've reactivated http://xcd.sf.net

Last edited by avih; 4th May 2002 at 23:20.
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Old 5th May 2002, 00:16   #52  |  Link
spyder
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I have completed the first beta of my XCD/CDXA tools for Java. Currently it includes a java version of dat2file and a InputStream class for reading M2F2 files directly within any java app. I will modify the sources of JavaLayer to use this stream and post it here unless there are licensing issues. I hava attached the ZIP file containing the compiled versions along with the source code.

I would like to put these files in the XCD SourceForge CVS. I guess I would have to be a member of the XCD project. How do I sign up? Until XCD matures a little more(gets error info), I will work on possibly MCF in Java.

Last edited by spyder; 5th May 2002 at 00:27.
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Old 5th May 2002, 00:39   #53  |  Link
avih
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spyder:
gimme some time to set up the account correctly. currently only the initial draft is uploaded.

also, since m2f2 is not XCD (it doesn't have error correction), i prefere not calling all the m2f2 work XCD ok?

i'll let u know when the project starts rolling, and add you as a developer.

avi.
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Old 5th May 2002, 00:54   #54  |  Link
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avih:

Thanks. The actual files say nothing of XCD except the Readme says XCD/CDXA I think. I will change it from now on until the XCD spec is finished.
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Old 5th May 2002, 01:03   #55  |  Link
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Belongs on what we want. If i interpret our intentions correctly we all want the best possible availability for the format. So we should put the format specs under the best licence we can give without putting it fully into PD. BSD should be good for it.

On the other hand there is software derived from different sources with different licenses. Well, we should use the best we can without violating the will of the others, wich made software components we reused. And this is no problem if we tell this openly. We should "label" the software components with the best licence we can.

And there is no need to do more. We want the industry to adopt the format. If they like it, they can use the format specs for compatibility and for free. Now its their choice either to say:

- "Ok, there are programs we may use, its no problem for us to put our changes under the same licenses too."

- "Ok, but GPL is not acceptable for us, we will order our coders to do a rewrite, thanks for the examples."
- "Ok, but we dont like GPL and have no coders to rewrite, could you do a rewrite for us, we will hire you for that?"

The last point is the only important one, would we have the capabilities to do a rewrite if someone would like to hire us for that? Its the only "service case". Every other usage would be self service and the only thing that could happen is being asked "How can we do this or that?", "Could you have a look on my implementation and certify it?".

The parts i do are just compiles of existing software, an OS, a Player. As long as i dont change the source i only need to give credits on where they can be found. They all are GPLed. Nobody working in the bizz would ask us to do rewrites of them, because anyone would know it takes a little more workforce and time to do a complete OS.

So what about the other parts? What is in where? We need a matrix we can publish. If nobody can have a misunderstanding, we are not in trouble. We just have to be straight, open, helpful, friendly. Thats all. We are giving a concept for free, including a reference implementation. If we can make someone get $ signs in his eyes with it, we will see.

I am working now for 15 years in the bizz (call me grandpa) and there is nothing i see trouble with yet. We can only get in trouble if there are black holes, trapps that other could tap in. If we tell the truth, beginning with the executive summary and ending with the specs and the attached licences and credits, this can become a widely used format very quick.
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Old 5th May 2002, 01:33   #56  |  Link
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I have finished modifying the source for JavaLayer 0.2.0(GPL) to use my CDXA class. It only required that I change two lines, one to import my package and change it from creating a BufferedInputStream to creating a CDXAInputStream.

That's how easy it is to make a Java app read from CDXA now.

To use this read the Readme inside the Jar file or extract the jar file to your classpath and run:

java javazoom.jl.player.jlp [inputFile.dat]

I have attached the compiled version and source in a jar file inside a zip file.
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Old 5th May 2002, 08:07   #57  |  Link
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Bootable CD

Hello all

Here is a idea I'm playing around with for some time.

Is it possible to make a bootable CD that once you turn the computer on it contains a programm that makes the computer dedicated to playing the movie on the CD.

You could probebly play movies on much older machines once you don't need to run the windows or the linux kernel along with other things that run in the background.

It will need some kind of minimal kernel to interface specific hardware devices but it will be allot less overhead and dedicateto runing the OS and allot more resources to playing the movie

Avi
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Old 5th May 2002, 10:18   #58  |  Link
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AviG,

guess what that BootCD stuff is all about we are writing from?

But thanks for repeating it in some clear, simple words :P

SCNR,

best regards,
Koepi
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Old 5th May 2002, 11:50   #59  |  Link
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didn't see that...

sorry

avig
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Old 5th May 2002, 16:24   #60  |  Link
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@AviG

I am working on that stuff, but dont exspect it to run mpeg-4 files fullscreen on a very old maschine. I use a networkless Kernel 2.4.18 with graphics hardware optimization and multiple ide/scsi disk drivers booting in VESA framebuffer mode and playing than with a statically compiled mplayer. The Kernel is not the limit, the player is not the limit, its limited by zooming mpeg-4 films to fullscreen. These operations are very cpu intensive, so the lower limit at my testfield is actually a coppermine celeron at 800 Mhz. I will try to optimize this, but mpeg decoding has its limits. Thats why STB manufacturers use dedicated high speed DSPs for this job. Another limit is memory bandwidth for the pictures size. 100Mhz buses get filled up very quick when copying the decoded frames to the graphics port at sizes > 640*480. My target is to get it running on a 100$ VIA Eden mainboard (mini size with VIA CIII CPU soldered on board).

Last edited by Gawen; 5th May 2002 at 16:36.
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