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Old 12th August 2017, 22:18   #22101  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
DXVA2 Copy-Back suffers from much lower decode performance on my old system (can't watch 4K50/60), even with a modern graphics card, so that would be awesome news.
Grab the nightly and test.
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Old 12th August 2017, 22:20   #22102  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Clearly such a feature would require support in the renderer as well, so watch out for that. Without that, it only does copy-back, although it appears even to be a tad bit faster then DXVA2-CB, not that this would really matter in playback scenarios.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 12th August 2017 at 22:26.
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Old 16th August 2017, 15:13   #22103  |  Link
DragonQ
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I currently have a Celeron G530 (2c/2t Sandy Bridge @ 2.4 GHz) in my HTPC, which is used pretty much only for HEVC playback since my GT 430 handles MPEG2, MPEG4, and AVC. I have a Celeron G1620 (2c/2t Ivy Bridge @ 2.7 GHz) in my file server. I also have a spare Core i3-3220 (2c/4t Ivy Bridge @ 3.3 GHz), which I want to put into one of those two systems, depending on where it'd be most useful. Would there be any benefit in terms of improved HEVC decoding ability if I put either the Core i3-3320 into the HTPC? For example, being able to handle higher bit rates or colour depths? I'm struggling to find benchmarks of software HEVC decoding using avcodec.

EDIT: If there's a better thread to ask this in please let me know.
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Old 16th August 2017, 22:04   #22104  |  Link
el Filou
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@DragonQ personally, I'd put the i3 in the HTPC. If the only thing your server is doing is serving files, then a faster CPU won't change much as it's pretty much only the storage subsystem and RAM that matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Grab the nightly and test.
Minimum frame rate is better, but still no luck overall:
0.70.2: 36-41 fps
0.70.2-35: 39-41 fps

I think my chipset/RAM is really too slow.

(FYI, 0.70.2-35 DX11: 32-33 fps)
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Old 17th August 2017, 01:33   #22105  |  Link
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For the real gain you'll need to wait for an updated madVR - which is scheduled for sometime this week. Note that you won't really be able to benchmark that mode, since only madVR will be able to understand it (for now), but you can of course do real-world tests to see if it works smoothly.
Performance wise I would expect it to be similar to DXVA2 native, without the quality drawbacks.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 17th August 2017 at 09:31.
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Old 17th August 2017, 10:04   #22106  |  Link
DragonQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
@DragonQ personally, I'd put the i3 in the HTPC. If the only thing your server is doing is serving files, then a faster CPU won't change much as it's pretty much only the storage subsystem and RAM that matters.
I think you're right that most of the stuff it does is I/O or bandwidth limited rather than CPU limited:
  • Serving files
  • Serving Windows Updates
  • Calculating FlexRAID parity nightly*
  • Backup files nightly
  • Running background downloads
  • Hosting a VPN
  • Hosting a web server (file sharing, SubSonic, WebMediaPortal, etc.)
The starred item would probably benefit from greater CPU power but it's rare that it has to do a long recalculation anyway. Whenever my girlfriend upgrades her gaming PC I'll be able to nab her Core i5-2500K too but that could be years away. I could even retire my X5650 system but that'd be a terrible server since it uses so much power!
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Last edited by DragonQ; 17th August 2017 at 10:30.
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Old 17th August 2017, 21:04   #22107  |  Link
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is d3d11 headless mode also planned for the next release?
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Old 18th August 2017, 17:31   #22108  |  Link
DragonQ
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Using my AMD RX 480, when I attempt to play this sample file (2160p60, HEVC, 10b, 25 Mb/s) at 1440p using DXVA2 copy-back I get 100% GPU usage and it's nowhere near playable. Same for CPU decoding, even with 12 virtual cores. However, when I play it using DXVA2 native, I just get a black screen. The GPU is doing something since usage is around 50% and MadVR says frames are taking ~10 ms to render, but I can't see anything. Should I be able to play this file using DXVA2 native using this GPU?

I even tried turning everything in MadVR down to nearest neighbour but it made no difference to either the GPU usage or black screen.
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Old 18th August 2017, 18:19   #22109  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
Should I be able to play this file using DXVA2 native using this GPU?
10-bit DXVA2-Native is rather broken on AMD in conjunction with madVR (driver bugs, i'm told).

You can try a nightly LAV and the latest madVR, and test D3D11 mode - assuming you are on Windows 8 or newer.
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Old 18th August 2017, 19:38   #22110  |  Link
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Thx a lot for D3D11VA support, nev.
I did some tests and here are my conclusions vs. DXVA2 (copyback) regarding quality on a GTX 1070 with driver 385.28 on Windows 10 Creators Update 1 + madVR (deband off, dithered 8 bit output):
  • DXVA2 native doesn't show banding anymore (?) with HEVC 10 bit Rec.709 content
  • DXVA2 native shows most excessive banding with HEVC 10 bit Rec.2020 HDR content
  • It still shows nasty chroma blur with H.264 8 bit
  • I don't have a proper sample to test chroma blur with 10 bit content, so can't say if it would also show chroma blur with DXVA2 native (I personally would expect the worst)
  • It seems DXVA2 native doesn't increase banding anymore (?) of 8 bit H.264 sources
  • D3D11VA doesn't seem to show any banding at all with any of the mentioned content
  • D3D11VA also doesn't show any chroma blur
  • Both points also apply to DXVA2 copyback (of course we already knew that)

And now, a interesting point which has often been excluded: performance.

I assumed my graphics card's power consumption by multiplying the average percentage value of the reported power target with the card's measured 100% power target, which is ~180W for this MSI 1070 Gaming X. Nvidia Inspector and hwinfo64 can read out values in Watts, but they don't seem to be realistic for some reasons (way too high).
I again tested with a HEVC 10 bit Rec.2020 HDR 4k 60fps video, downscaled to 1440p with reasonable quality settings.

d3d11va: ~32% Power -> ~58W ~55% GPU usage @ 1.45GHz @ 2.3GB VRAM
dxva2-copyback: ~54% Power -> ~97W ~68% GPU usage @ 2GHz 2.5GB VRAM

So, copyback mode can have a huge impact on power consumption and performance, and even may prevent you from using better madVR quality settings.

-> D3D11VA seems to be golden.
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Old 18th August 2017, 21:38   #22111  |  Link
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hmmm, just a quick question.
The DXVA11 mode doesnt work for win 7, does it?
cause it doesnt work for me, it uses CPU instead..i mean the GPU isnt listed and not used when using DXVA11..

sorry if this has allready been answered but i didnt find it..

greetz
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Old 18th August 2017, 22:33   #22112  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetA13 View Post
hmmm, just a quick question.
The DXVA11 mode doesnt work for win 7, does it?
cause it doesnt work for me, it uses CPU instead..i mean the GPU isnt listed and not used when using DXVA11..

sorry if this has allready been answered but i didnt find it..

greetz
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Old 18th August 2017, 23:27   #22113  |  Link
nevcairiel
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D3D11 decoding is not supported on Windows 7, and after some testing it also seems like that won't change. The NV12 texture format is not available on 7, which makes the entire process impossible.
One could perhaps do a low-quality thing that outputs RGB directly, but we already have DXVA2-Native which operates on a similar concept.

I'll probably add a note about that in the LAV config. I thought about just hiding the option entirely, but perhaps its good to show people what they are missing (also, they might come here asking where it is since they heard about it)
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 18th August 2017 at 23:58.
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Old 19th August 2017, 01:20   #22114  |  Link
mitchmalibu
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Just wanted to say, really great stuff on the DXVA11 mode: it handles my hdr 60fps demo clips perfectly, which I wasn't able to do previously. Between you and madshi, the htpc world really made huge steps forward in a matter of months.
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Old 19th August 2017, 01:49   #22115  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
10-bit DXVA2-Native is rather broken on AMD in conjunction with madVR (driver bugs, i'm told).

You can try a nightly LAV and the latest madVR, and test D3D11 mode - assuming you are on Windows 8 or newer.
I'm running the latest MadVR and latest LAV Filters nightly but still get a black screen in DXVA2 native. I'm currently on the previous WHQL driver (17.4.4) due to severe game performance issues with the latest one (17.7.2), I wonder if that driver solves this problem?

However, D3D11 mode seems to work. I can play the sample clip in fullscreen with ~50% GPU usage using "ReconSoft" chroma and "Catmull-Rom AR" luma.
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Old 19th August 2017, 05:33   #22116  |  Link
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Why wonder? Take you a few minutes to know for certain.
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Old 19th August 2017, 07:51   #22117  |  Link
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I saw the video decoder showing D3D11 cb direct mode instead of native. How and why is that activated?
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Old 19th August 2017, 08:07   #22118  |  Link
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LAV auto switches to D3D11 copyback ("D3D11 cb") if the video renderer doesn't support the required communication interface for native D3D11 DXVA. So e.g. if you activate D3D11 decoding for EVR, or for an old (anything older than 0.92.0) madVR version, you'll get D3D11 copyback.
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Old 19th August 2017, 08:27   #22119  |  Link
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OK, but renderer was madVR 0.92.1 which generally uses D3D11 native. Maybe just a hickup.
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Old 19th August 2017, 08:48   #22120  |  Link
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If you can find a way to reproduce it somehow, please let us know how!
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