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Old 30th April 2002, 18:29   #1  |  Link
avih
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XCD: automatic media detection and licensing

1. de_xt has managed to add automatic media type detection. so now there's only a single filter, which should work with ANY media type that's compatible with windows media players. it was tested to work with avi, mp3 and ogg files. (and it DOESN'T read the whole file to memory, it was tested by people with 800M files right of the cd, and worked fine).

this is probably the last release of this filter before we start implementing the error correction facilities (unless people find some serious bugs, in which case, we'll try to fix them).

again, it's only for testing, do not start using this format for REAL archiving of your clips. please also read the readme.txt file that's attached to this distribution. (as usual, it might take some time before the attachment is approved by a moderator)

2. XCD spec is advancing nicely. atm, XCD has 2 targers:

a. offer reduced error correction (compared to normal CDs) such
that more space of the cd will be used for actual data.
b. be used as a multimedia cd container (i.e. like SVCD) to
be used by both stand alone players and computer players.
it will have playlist and menus support.

this brings up another issue.
we don't intent to make money from XCD. we do however want to keep all the sources and spec open and publicly available, and we want this format to be used by commercial applications and players. and that brings the licensing issue.

some ppl told me that GPL licence might prevent it's adoption in commercial applications. can anyone pls shed some light on this issue for us??

we need:
a lisence that enables commercial applications to use this format, while keeping the sources and spec open. but we don't want any company claiming ownership on XCD in the future. any suggestions??

thanx
avi

Last edited by avih; 30th April 2002 at 18:43.
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Old 30th April 2002, 22:13   #2  |  Link
ChristianHJW
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Thread locked by coincidence ? Reopenend it now ...

Reply :

Go for L-GPL license, like MCF is doing. It will allow other authors ( and even companies ) to use your source code even for non-GPL applications, but you have and keep all the rights on your specs and code.
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Old 1st May 2002, 00:40   #3  |  Link
avih
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i see the file has been downloaded many times. can we consider 'no feedback = good feedback'?

the only changed code from the previous filter is the media detection stuff. the parsing, memory usage etc remains the same.

can u approve it's still working for ogg/mp3/avi? (did u also try new media types like asf/wmv/etc?)

thanx again
avi.

[edit] 2 hours later, another 50 downloads, still no feedbacks? [/edit]

Last edited by avih; 1st May 2002 at 02:44.
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Old 1st May 2002, 03:48   #4  |  Link
ph2t
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Well,

I used the "test4" version, just before the updated media parsing was added and I achieved the following with total success.

1) Created OGM using divx4 .avi and .ogg Vorbis soundtrack with OggMux.

2) Converted the .ogm to a bin file using mode2cdmaker-b11.

3) Burnt CD using Nero, Mode2.

4) Ran the "register AVI Media" bat from "test4" zip.

5) Loaded the avseq01.dat from cd into Media Player 6.4.

6) Beautifull!

Ph2t.
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Old 1st May 2002, 03:51   #5  |  Link
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I made an image of a wmv file using the mode2cdmaker and then mounted the image using Daemon tools 3.02 and it wouldn't play. It says it is unable to create the filters for the file. On my hard drive the file plays without error. I also made images using an ogm file and a standard mpeg and both played sucessfully.

Regards,
AlwSN
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Old 1st May 2002, 04:03   #6  |  Link
spyder
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I now have all types i use(mp3, ogg, avi, mpg) working flawlessly except ocassionally a seeking error in ogg(loses audio). I had to delete all the keys in the registry which had the GUID listed in the regfix in the other thread(i made a backup first). Then all files would play. Don't try what I did unless you know what you are doing. Maybe someone will create a Win 98 compatible reg file to fix this. HINT, HINT. I have no experience with registry scripting.

I have now tried WMA, MPEG(VBR), and Quicktime(Old verison). All files work except the WMA. It says it can't create the filters to render it.

Last edited by spyder; 1st May 2002 at 04:15.
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Old 1st May 2002, 06:49   #7  |  Link
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I used test4 with daemon tools on AVI file, and it works fine. Today I saw that test5 became available, so I download it and attempt the test. Unregistered test4 filter for AVI, and delete all test4 files from putter. Unzipped test5 and registered the filter. Create mcf_image.bin with mode2cdmaker using the same AVI file and mount the bin with daemon tools as before with test4. The result is excellent playback and forward/backward/pause/stop are working fine as well. I have not attempt to write the whole thing to CDR and test it yet. Will try that sometime tomorrow if i have a chance. BTW, are you guys have plan on making the mode2cdmaker into win32 GUI? So far this project is doing great.

works with wmp6.4/BSplayer/zoomplayer: All are using ffdshow filter.

bin files are created from 675Mb, 800Mb, and 915Mb AVI(xvid)+MP3.

Last edited by wing1; 1st May 2002 at 06:56.
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Old 1st May 2002, 07:47   #8  |  Link
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ok gus, thanx for the feedback. great to hear that it's mostly working well .

i'll summarize the status so far:

the filter:
-----------
- working players: zoom player, bsplayer, powerdivx (aka Core Media Player) V4 beta, wmp6.4, wmp 8.
- it has been found to work with qt/avi/mp3/ogg/MPEG(?)
- it doesn't work with wmv/wma ("can't find filters")
- there's some 'regfix' that helps win98(SE?) users, and seems to solve few problems.

the mode2cdcreator:
-------------------
uses 'fixed' cd label ("mcf-cd")


@spyder, can u point me specifically to this 'regfix'?? i tried looking through this and the previous threads, and couldn't find it.

todo (for test5, if we have time, otherwise for XCD):

1. find why doesn't it play with wma/wmv (do we really WANT to support m$ files??? )
2. add this registry fix to the installation 'script', such that it's working with win98.
3. modify the cd label.

some notes:

mode2cdcreator, and mcfcdcreator are identical, it's just that dext was initially thinking he's working on a specific (mcf) tool, but then found out his work is completely general, so he changed the name.

a gui front end will probably pop up sometime (as well as an XCD calculator, playlist creator, menue creator etc), however, it's a low priority atm (priorities can change though )

if anyone WAS having problems, and managed to fix them, pls share this info with others.


thanx again ppl

avi

Last edited by avih; 1st May 2002 at 07:56.
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Old 1st May 2002, 11:26   #9  |  Link
Gawen
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You need:
"a lisence that enables commercial applications to use this format, while keeping the sources and spec open. but we don't want any company claiming ownership on XCD in the future. any suggestions??"

I was following the M$ CIFS as "shared source" versus samba development discussion and this is what i learned from it:

M$ uses a lot of open source software in their NT Stuff (NT/2K/XP) but no GPL or LGPL stuff because it would force them to publish the sources of derived works. Taking a look on their IP Stack shows it is based on BSD stuff derived from sources published under the "BSD public license". The BSD public license allows companies to take the sources and build binary only software from it. I am not very familiar with it, so politically it could be useful to enter a paragraph that says if someone uses XCD, they have to credit you in their legal statement and include the XCD license together with a link to the sources in their dists(, so others [competitors] can find it and use it to). This could make it spread faster.

Last edited by Gawen; 1st May 2002 at 11:38.
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Old 1st May 2002, 11:43   #10  |  Link
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@Gawen:
thx, that sound great. we'll investigate this license.

avi
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Old 1st May 2002, 11:57   #11  |  Link
Gawen
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Btw.: Is it possible to include autostart files on a XCD? I am actually playing around with a mini linux distro consisting of a linux kernel boot image and mplayer autoplaying a video to a vesa frame buffer. This would make autobooting/playing XCDs possible. It will use MPEG-4/7 XML code to determine the media file name and metadata (for menue display later.) But this would need mixed mode, wouldnt it?
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Old 1st May 2002, 12:48   #12  |  Link
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i also tried OGG/AVI with Test5 Filters in Deamon Tools and it worked with no errors.

i think the main problem with WMV/ASF is, the these files uses the
WM ASF Reader instead of Files Source(Async).This reader is also the splitter.The only solution for this would be, to write a Filter which is able to split the Streams which came from File Source(Async).
i donīt think itīs usefull to do this .. M$ should release a filter which is able to do that.


Regards
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Old 1st May 2002, 12:53   #13  |  Link
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Gawen:
the initial spec (yet unpulished publicly) already have support for arbitraty binary files for usage with computers (like filters/players/etc).

we didn't think on boot sector yet (or whatever stuff that should make it bootable).

we did think (though not on the spec yet) of a single file at the root dir, that by executing it, the associated compatible player will be launched and play the cd content (with menus, playlists, etc). the spec also has draft support for multiple cd content (like movie splitted over x cds)

we're still working on the spec.
would you like to join? (any contribution is welcome)

just PM me if u do, and i'll update u further.

cheers
avi

Last edited by avih; 1st May 2002 at 13:00.
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Old 1st May 2002, 12:58   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Koelsch
i also tried OGG/AVI with Test5 Filters in Deamon Tools and it worked with no errors.

i think the main problem with WMV/ASF is, the these files uses the
WM ASF Reader instead of Files Source(Async).This reader is also the splitter.The only solution for this would be, to write a Filter which is able to split the Streams which came from File Source(Async).
i donīt think itīs usefull to do this .. M$ should release a filter which is able to do that.


Regards
Koelsch
thx for the info.
i guess that means no support for m$ media formats atm then, due to lack of appropriate filters provided with win32 OSs. too bad for M$

however, independant 'parsers' of asf/wmv/(maybe also real media) may be able to handle such streams (i don't know about such parsers/decoders, but they could exist). especially on non M$ platforms.

avi

Last edited by avih; 1st May 2002 at 13:02.
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Old 1st May 2002, 13:00   #15  |  Link
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@avih
Of cause, will be a pleasure to me.
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Old 1st May 2002, 13:08   #16  |  Link
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check your PM Gawen.
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Old 1st May 2002, 13:29   #17  |  Link
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@Koelsch:
i gave it another (short) thought (about foramts that use propriatry/compound source filters).

it could be possible to play such files if the filter (or other module) includes a mini http server, that will read the file from the cd and will expost it from the server. WM source filter (and probably real media as well) can handle URLs, so the player can just play the the file from a 'local' http connection... that could work.

but we do have more important issues atm. anyone wanna volenteer and write one?

avi
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Old 1st May 2002, 14:01   #18  |  Link
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If you need a GUI guy ...

I think I can help on that matter !!!

contact me...

Last edited by avig70; 14th June 2015 at 11:31.
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Old 1st May 2002, 14:46   #19  |  Link
Gawen
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@Koelsch and avih

I think there is not even a server needed, a html file called by windows autostart ini generating a file://|cdrom|/XCD/... URL included in an object tag by JS should be enough.
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Old 1st May 2002, 14:53   #20  |  Link
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Re: If you need a GUI guy ...

Quote:
Originally posted by avig70
I think I can help on that matter !!!

contact me on

avi_goldberg@hotmail.com


Avi
great (another AVI?? )

avi, we're currently defining the spec (and we still don't know what GUIs we will need). the sourceforge project is still empty, and many ppl are offering help (standards/programming/player support/etc).

i think we should aim to establish sourceforge as the homepage for this project asap, and start to finalize a minimal spec (cd structure and protection method). only then we can start assiging ppl with tasks.

thanx for the offer again. let's keep in touch and hope the minimal spec is finalized soon.

regards
avi

Last edited by avih; 1st May 2002 at 15:22.
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